Call to boycott Tour de France!!!!!!
- Thread starter bobke
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If everyone would shut up about LA(including the French) they would get their race back to the way they want it and you would get cycling back the way you want it.limerickman said:
Dimos said:
What Leblanc didn't do was publicly dump on Virenque's record when he retired, nor did he make any comments for the years post 99 that Virenque rode. I don't recall the Tour organizers stating what a relief it was that Virenque had retired, because he was a maggot doper. Their remarks about LA were almost beyond contempt.
And if Leblanc was so upset about doping, (and is so upset about it today that he has to dump on the reigning champion) he should have done more than cash in. The Festina mess was uncovered by French police busts, not by any action by the Tour organizers, and only uncovered because the doping was becoming rather blatant. That makes his statemets doubly hypocritical.
Perhaps the biggest joke in all of this is... not only can they not win their own race, not only can they not properly frame the guy who did, they're not even good opportunists. In a way, this is helpful to LA - if the doping accusations come from people this slimy and gutless, then they are suspect by mere association.
Not to mention Fignon courageous victory in the '89 Giro....
(should I mention where LeMond finished in the 89 Giro ? He claimed that he turned around his form from the Giro to the Tour with an 'iron' shot ! Yes that’s what women take once a month.)
- French cycling today may not be as successful as it has in the past but at least its Federation is independent and has been brave enough to tackle doping. As Fignon said after losing the 89 Tour: "Where there is strength there is courage". I think US cycling should take a note out of the French cycling's book.
(should I mention where LeMond finished in the 89 Giro ? He claimed that he turned around his form from the Giro to the Tour with an 'iron' shot ! Yes that’s what women take once a month.)
- French cycling today may not be as successful as it has in the past but at least its Federation is independent and has been brave enough to tackle doping. As Fignon said after losing the 89 Tour: "Where there is strength there is courage". I think US cycling should take a note out of the French cycling's book.
limerickman said:
Why do you throw Marco Pantani into your list? Force of habit? There is no evidence of any kind that he took PEDs. The single measurement of high hematocrit is not as you know a positive test for use of epo. What is more, that event was a complete setup as i have described in other posts. It is easy to get a high reading if that is your purpose. Add a little less anticoagulant or non at all, and you have it. There is more to this story, but i know i am off theme for the thread.
patch70 said:
thebluetrain said:
It's got nothing to do with the way I want it.
The fact is that cycling and more specifically the TDF - was always popular with or without the so called "fans" (newbies who know bog all about the sport except what the PR dept tell 'em).
I have been very fortunate enough to see the TDF as both a fan on location (1995/96) and from within the organisation of stages of the TDF itself (1998 TDF :Grand Depart and stages 1,2 and 3).
Fignon just recently called French riders "lazy." I am a fan of Fignon. But, Limerickman will maybe be able to help me out on this one .... I seem to remember a early season amphetimine charge against Fignon at one point and he served a several month suspension???? My mind is fuzzy on this one.whiteboytrash said:
Since the US has moved into the cycling scene it really has put it's mark on cycling concerning the TDF. It's riders have won about half of the TDF's. The French have not even had a challenger .... [ Ja Ja was a great TDF rider though.}
I really do not think the US needs any pages out of the French cycling book. Look at the PRo Tour standings. Look at the TDF. Even before the Festina scandal, the French did not have very many TDF results. If when they cheated, they could not win.
For starters could you quote the remarks that supposedly Leblanc (and Prudhomme) made about Lance? Cause I searched on some sites and I've found nothing.JohnO said:
Second, there is a huge amount of difference between someone who was punished and someone who just walked away with his "crime".
It's also preposterous to expect from any race organization to act like the police. They simply don't have the authority to do raids and busts. What they can do is to share informations with the proper authorities (state, federations, police) and especially ASO is very active in this domain.
I will repeat that Leblanc was very happy with Lance's wins because he had the opportunity to expand to the "virgin" US market. The problem is that Lance somehow lost it. It was Ferrari that was accused not himself. So when he chased down Simeoni, in the same moment that he was making a record for Christ's shake, he only made obvious that there is certainly "smoke". And when there is smoke there is fire as well.
PS During the 99 Tour Lance was tested positive for steroids. He claimed that it was a drug prescribed and the organizers acquit him. I guess because they were against him...
During the 2001 police raid in the Giro he was found in posession of dope products and he got a 9 month ban. There is also the Milan-Turin accident where he had broke his leg. His haematocrit was measured 60%!!!!! Altitude training? We have to take off the blinkers. Marco was talented but also doped.ilpirata said:
Although there is no proof it is considered that Fignon was doped as well. In fact his statements about doping of recent suggest he has an open mind about the subject.
When I said that US cycling should take a note out of French cycling's book I meant it in reference to tackling doping. After 1998 the French cycling administration has done a lot to crack down on dope cheats and more than any other federation. With the positive tests of Hamilton and Armstrong and the fact that the US Cycling federation is owned by a man who owns a company with Armstrong you cannot expect independence or a crackdown on doping. Why ? Because the profit from these companies is important for the invested parties and therefore they would not want to bring up any bad press on doping.
When I said that US cycling should take a note out of French cycling's book I meant it in reference to tackling doping. After 1998 the French cycling administration has done a lot to crack down on dope cheats and more than any other federation. With the positive tests of Hamilton and Armstrong and the fact that the US Cycling federation is owned by a man who owns a company with Armstrong you cannot expect independence or a crackdown on doping. Why ? Because the profit from these companies is important for the invested parties and therefore they would not want to bring up any bad press on doping.
wolfix said:
Patch you realize you are talking about the fall of 1995 when Pantani is in the hospital with multiple leg fractures and contusions. He is dehydrated and has lost blood. That these measurements have explanations outside of the use of epo is more than just possible. The real story is why someone would go out of their way to dig up a 5 year old hospital record to initiate a sporting fraud proceeding against an athlete? When it is obvious legally and morally that since there is no rule against high hematocrit at that time, and there is no test for epo even in 2000, that the proceedings are nothing but harassment for the purposes of harassment and character assassination.
patch70 said:
Failing the hematocrit test doesn't mean that you're doped. There are though, some limits. If your normal hematocrit is about 42 then the 50 is not normal. And anyway you cannot have an hematocrit of 60% by any normal means. That's the main point of this story...ilpirata said:
Would someone tell Bruyneel to shut up and stop whinging ? He is still going on about LeBlanc and Lance.... someone tell him to find another rider for crying out loud instead of living on past now tainted glories....
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Dimos i think you have not read my post in it's entirety. Pantani was not in a "normal" state for that reported 60 and he did not get there by "normal" means. What is more it was not blood test for a racing control that he could actually fail. But a hospital emergency room type of measurement. The man had multiple fractures, multiple contusions, and had lost a lot of blood. In short the fall he took almost killed him. He required a transfusion. He missed the following year of cycling completely as a result of the injuries suffered in that Milan- Torino race. The testimony of the attending doctors at the Forli tribunal did not corroborate the prosecutions theories of epo use as the only explanation. But again we have the setup. Only on appeal does Pantani get cleared. But the essential charge of whether or not he was an epo abuser as early as 1995 is not addressed, to hang like a dark cloud still over him. Thus the character assassination even in defeat is successful. The character assassination that I talk about is the relentless persuit of his destruction by powerful people. Why? because following his exclusion from the giro in 1999, he proclaimed his exclusion was rigged. He was in fact given assurances that all the media attacks and judicial attacks would stop if he would come out and admit he had cheated at the giro. (This from Ceruti the head of the Italian cycling federation at the time, who only this year was replaced, and is no stranger to scandals). This was something Marco could not and would not do. This effectively killed his career and began to tear him up pschologically. I invite you to check some of my posts on these matters, if you are interested of course, for further details.
Dimos said:
Dimos i think you have not read my post in it's entirety. Pantani was not in a "normal" state for that reported 60 and he did not get there by "normal" means. What is more it was not blood test for a racing control that he could actually fail. But a hospital emergency room type of measurement. The man had multiple fractures, multiple contusions, and had lost a lot of blood. In short the fall he took almost killed him. He required a transfusion. He missed the following year of cycling completely as a result of the injuries suffered in that Milan- Torino race. The testimony of the attending doctors at the Forli tribunal did not corroborate the prosecutions theories of epo use as the only explanation. But again we have the setup. Only on appeal does Pantani get cleared. But the essential charge of whether or not he was an epo abuser as early as 1995 is not addressed, to hang like a dark cloud still over him. Thus the character assassination even in defeat is successful. The character assassination that I talk about is the relentless persuit of his destruction by powerful people. Why? because following his exclusion from the giro in 1999, he proclaimed his exclusion was rigged. He was in fact given assurances that all the media attacks and judicial attacks would stop if he would come out and admit he had cheated at the giro. (This from Ceruti the head of the Italian cycling federation at the time, who only this year was replaced, and is no stranger to scandals). This was something Marco could not and would not do. This effectively killed his career and began to tear him up pschologically. I invite you to check some of my posts on these matters, if you are interested of course, for further details.
Dimos said:
Also in 2001 Marco Pantani is not found with any PED's in his possesion. He is accused of using a siringe that was found in a room in which there is no proof or witnesses to show he had ever been into, and from a hotel that he had left over a day earlier. No DNA tests were ever run on the siringe, what does your logic tell you about the credibility of these accusations?
I don't think you believe everything printed by the media is truth. It is hard to imagine the a popular national hero, could suffer such injustices in his own country. But this is exactly what happened.
I don't think you believe everything printed by the media is truth. It is hard to imagine the a popular national hero, could suffer such injustices in his own country. But this is exactly what happened.
Dimos said:
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