Cambrian Way?

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:59:12 +0100, "Paul Cummings"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Tony Drake's book does have clear examples of one route, so there is
definitely the option to take that. However, I take him at his word and
pick my own route. For example, the check points in the Brecon Beacons are:

[...]

This reminds me of the Challenge I read about in this month's edition
of TGO. I'll start a new thread.

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:45:37 +0100, "Paul Cummings"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Okay, Here we go:
1 ST180765 Cardiff Castle

<snip great stuff>

Wow! Thanks for that 🙂

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

Peewiglet said:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:58:50 +0100, Darren G <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You've only been back a couple of days!

Shirley you can't have itchy feet already?

Have to get working on the next escape ;-)

If you're working on another grand walk, I think you may be interested in the email I sent a few
days ago - did you get it?. I sent it to the address you used when you sent me an email a while ago
about Montrail Storms (thank you for the mention in your excellent PW report that I haven't finished
reading yet).

While I'm here, the Cambrian Way is said to have more than twice the ascent of the Pennine Way, and
then there is the Rhinogs to contend with. Some walkers apparently miss this out if not wild
camping, and I'm not surprised - see our recent Rhinog backpack report. It definitely shouldn't be
missed though.

Best regards

-- GeoffC

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:47:14 +0100, GeoffC <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

If you're working on another grand walk, I think you may be interested in the email I sent a few
days ago - did you get it?. I sent it to the address you used when you sent me an email a while ago
about Montrail Storms (thank you for the mention in your excellent PW report that I haven't finished
reading yet).

I did, thanks - just replied 🙂

Quoted message said:

While I'm here, the Cambrian Way is said to have more than twice the ascent of the Pennine Way, and
then there is the Rhinogs to contend with. Some walkers apparently miss this out if not wild
camping, and I'm not surprised - see our recent Rhinog backpack report. It definitely shouldn't be
missed though.

I'll take a look, thanks, but first I'll make a coffee. I love
settling down with a coffee to read the trip reports on your site! 🙂
They're inspiring!

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

Paul Cummings said:

Okay, Here we go:
1 ST180765 Cardiff Castle

<snip>

Quoted message said:

41 SH783775 Conwy Castle

Thanks. Castles eh? Hadn't thought of that.

Quoted message said:

There you go. You owe me one for all that typing!

Would you like me to do some more typing in return? :-)

Quoted message said:

I found the route through the Brecons to be a little too gentle. I
modified it to bag every peak I could. This is my peak bagging route

Well the Beacons are relatively gentle anyway.

Quoted message said:

Bwlch Duwynt (how can a peak be a Bwlch???)

It isn't. That's the name of the bwlch. Technically the peak has no
name, but clearly it isn't really a peak anyway, it's just the high
point of a plateau, and it doesn't even have enough ascent to get into
anyone's list except the Nuttalls.

One of the problems for peak list makers is what to call unnamed
summits. They could just call them unnamed summits, but the preference
is to give them a meaningful name, so many just choose the nearest name
on the map, as in this case. But in this case, as in others I've
noticed, the name chosen does not refer to a peak at all.

There are two possibilities for this particular summit, one is to take
the name of the nearby cliff, Craig Cwareli, the other, my preferred
choice, in keeping with the nearby Waun Rydd, is to name the summit
after the moorland of which it is the highest point, i.e. Gwaun Cerrig
Llwydion.

Quoted message said:

Cefn Cul (how I hated this one)

Such a tiny little hill for people to get so upset about, and such a
good viewpoint too.

Quoted message said:

Fan Hir
Fan Brycheiniog
Picws Du
Waun Lefrith
Fan Foel

Eh? Waun Lefrith to Fan Foel? That's a major backtrack isn't it? Why
not FB - FF - PD?

Quoted message said:

Finishing at the YH.

Which youth hostel?

Quoted message said:

I didn't like this finishing point, especially as it made the last
day too short and included too much road.

Actually it seems to me that you didn't really finish the Beacons. What
about Garreg Las, Fan Fraith and Garrag Lwyd? And even the wild western
ridge stretching to Tair Carn Isaf? No major summits there, but that's
where the Beacons really end.

Quoted message said:

There is someone's similar route on the Internet somewhere. Called
"Across the Dragon's Back" or something like that to include all of
the Welsh 2000s. IIRC it was written by a woman in her mid 40s who
completed it alone and spent a lot of time camping on the route.
Quite an impressive feat and a nice read.

Wasn't that Ann's site? Mad about Mountains?

Nice to have support. I really don't have the inclination to do a long
distance walk, but if I did, I'd really want to take my time over it,
spending months rather than weeks, getting used to living out in the
wilds rather than trying to get the whole thing over quickly as a kind
of fitness challenge. I'd be happy to spend a day or two camping in the
same spot during bad weather or whenever I felt like a rest, but that
kind of approach would really need support - i.e. someone in a vehicle
meeting me at various rendezvous points to resupply me with food, and
perhaps changes of clothing too. Ideally (and am I quite idealistic
about such things) I'd want to completely avoid civilisation throughout,
so I'd choose a route that avoided towns and villages, and which only
crossed roads at wild points (these would be the rendezvous points).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I imagine it would be possible to plan an interesting route through
Wales using relatively easy paths and avoiding unnecessary ascent,
yet still passing through the most scenic areas. Not everyone is a
peak bagger.

What???? Next you'll be saying you don't need a GPS or camera to go
walking.

Ah, but walking is a different thing, this is backpacking!

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders wrote on Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:09:08 +0100....

Quoted message said:

Paul Cummings said:

Bwlch Duwynt (how can a peak be a Bwlch???)

It isn't. That's the name of the bwlch. Technically the peak has no
name, but clearly it isn't really a peak anyway, it's just the high
point of a plateau, and it doesn't even have enough ascent to get into
anyone's list except the Nuttalls.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

There are two possibilities for this particular summit, one is to take
the name of the nearby cliff, Craig Cwareli, the other, my preferred
choice, in keeping with the nearby Waun Rydd, is to name the summit
after the moorland of which it is the highest point, i.e. Gwaun Cerrig
Llwydion.

Eh...? Are you thinking of Bwlch y Ddwyallt? That was higher up Paul
C's list. Bwlch Duwynt is the bwlch just down from Corn Du, on the
tourist path from Pont ar Daf.

In my 2nd edition of the Nuttalls' book, Duwynt (not Bwlch Duwynt) and
Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion are both in the list of Deleted Tops. Duwynt
clearly refers to the 824m spot height just south of the bwlch, but
it's not named as that on my 1:25000 OS map.

The grid reference they give for Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion is SO 041196,
which is a 730m spot height. By Bwlch y Ddwyallt the Nuttalls are
referring to the 754m spot height at SSO 055203. The name on the
1:25000 map is placed on the cliff-top just west of that, where there
isn't any bwlch! Presumably it should really refer to the bwlch just
to the north-east, at SO 057206?

My assumption would be that Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion is in reality the
name of the whole of this area, including both the 730m and 754m spot
heights.

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Cummings said:

I found the route through the Brecons to be a little too gentle. I
modified it to bag every peak I could. This is my peak bagging route

Well the Beacons are relatively gentle anyway.

Quoted message said:

Cefn Cul (how I hated this one)

Such a tiny little hill for people to get so upset about, and such a
good viewpoint too.

I think it is the ground being so un-even all around it. I nearly fell over
half a dozen times just trying to get up it. I was warned I would hate it,
and I did.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fan Hir
Fan Brycheiniog
Picws Du
Waun Lefrith
Fan Foel

Eh? Waun Lefrith to Fan Foel? That's a major backtrack isn't it? Why
not FB - FF - PD?

Correct, having checked my map, I noticed that I had mixed up the order of
these peaks. I just followed around the outside of the ridge with minor
trips inland if the land looked higher and I was near a peak.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Finishing at the YH.

Which youth hostel?

Llandduesant. I couldn't remember the name at the time of writing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I didn't like this finishing point, especially as it made the last
day too short and included too much road.

Actually it seems to me that you didn't really finish the Beacons. What
about Garreg Las, Fan Fraith and Garrag Lwyd? And even the wild western
ridge stretching to Tair Carn Isaf? No major summits there, but that's
where the Beacons really end.

True, but I was on a fixed walk with a group and didn't have any real choice
of when to finish when we ended day 5, and the trip.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is someone's similar route on the Internet somewhere. Called
"Across the Dragon's Back" or something like that to include all of
the Welsh 2000s. IIRC it was written by a woman in her mid 40s who
completed it alone and spent a lot of time camping on the route.
Quite an impressive feat and a nice read.

Wasn't that Ann's site? Mad about Mountains?

Can't remember the details, but I'm fairly confident of the title. A quick
search came up with Ann Bowker and
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/1015/dragon.htm as the tale.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I imagine it would be possible to plan an interesting route through
Wales using relatively easy paths and avoiding unnecessary ascent,
yet still passing through the most scenic areas. Not everyone is a
peak bagger.

What???? Next you'll be saying you don't need a GPS or camera to go
walking.

Ah, but walking is a different thing, this is backpacking!

Given the weight I normally take out with me, there's not a lot of
difference.
One of these days, I will take a salad and attempt to cut the weight down.

Have fun,
Paul

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:40:41 +0100, "Paul Cummings"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Thanks again! I'll look further into it, and may come back with
further questions in due course 🙂

You can either post them, if of interest to others, or e-mail me direct
(assuming my spam filter doesn't grab the mail - it's usually well behaved).

Have fun,
Paul

Paul Saunders wrote on Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:42:58 +0100....

Quoted message said:

Tim Jackson....

Quoted message said:

The grid reference they give for Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion is SO 041196,
which is a 730m spot height.

There's no mention of that "peak" at all in my Nuttalls book.

As I said, it's in the Deleted Tops list in the second edition. That
implies that in the first edition they thought it was a Nuttall. But
maybe they just used this list to justify why some tops didn't make
it, whether they were in the first edition or not.

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

Tim Jackson said:

Quoted message said:

There's no mention of that "peak" at all in my Nuttalls book.

As I said, it's in the Deleted Tops list in the second edition. That
implies that in the first edition they thought it was a Nuttall.

It implies that, but it wasn't.

Quoted message said:

But
maybe they just used this list to justify why some tops didn't make
it, whether they were in the first edition or not.

Yes.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Cummings said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cefn Cul (how I hated this one)

Such a tiny little hill for people to get so upset about, and such a
good viewpoint too.

I think it is the ground being so un-even all around it. I nearly
fell over half a dozen times just trying to get up it. I was warned
I would hate it, and I did.

Ah! You hated it because you *expected* to hate it! You'd
psychologically primed yourself to dislike it, and you made sure your
expectations were met!

Actually, there's not that much uneven ground, and a lot can be avoided,
depending on your exact route. If you follow the path leading west from
the Fan Gyhirych col, and don't turn right to aim for the summit until
you reach the top of the ridge, it's not bad going at all.

Coming down, the direct route west or north-west is not good, that's
horrible stuff. But I think if you follow the ridge northish to the col
with Moel Feity, I think that's fairly easy going (at least it looks
like, haven't tried it yet). The route from the south is not at all bad
either, although it is a big boggy in parts (actually there's no ROW
from the south and you have to negotiate a bit of farmland).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ah, but walking is a different thing, this is backpacking!

Given the weight I normally take out with me, there's not a lot of
difference.
One of these days, I will take a salad and attempt to cut the weight
down.

Take a dehydrated salad! ;-)

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Cummings said:

Quoted message said:

> Cefn Cul (how I hated this one)

Such a tiny little hill for people to get so upset about, and such a
good viewpoint too.

I think it is the ground being so un-even all around it. I nearly
fell over half a dozen times just trying to get up it. I was warned
I would hate it, and I did.

Ah! You hated it because you *expected* to hate it! You'd
psychologically primed yourself to dislike it, and you made sure your
expectations were met!

Don't get all deep and meaningful on me, I'm too shallow for that.

Quoted message said:

Actually, there's not that much uneven ground, and a lot can be avoided,
depending on your exact route. If you follow the path leading west from
the Fan Gyhirych col, and don't turn right to aim for the summit until
you reach the top of the ridge, it's not bad going at all.

I was going straight up (from Fan Gyhirych, straight down to the road :-)
and then straight up again) and straight down (to the road on the other
side. The reason for my hurry was that I had left an injured walker beside
the A4067 (with her husband) whilst I ran on to where we had our minibus
driver waiting.

In hind sight, I was not best minded to appreciate the scenery as I was in
heads down running mode (and I found the surface very difficult for that).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ah, but walking is a different thing, this is backpacking!

Given the weight I normally take out with me, there's not a lot of
difference.
One of these days, I will take a salad and attempt to cut the weight
down.

Take a dehydrated salad! ;-)

What? And then I would have to carry more than my normal 4 litres of
water... ;-)

Have fun,
Paul

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bwlch Duwynt (how can a peak be a Bwlch???)

It isn't. That's the name of the bwlch. Technically the peak has no
name, but clearly it isn't really a peak anyway, it's just the high
point of a plateau, and it doesn't even have enough ascent to get into
anyone's list except the Nuttalls.

If you read the OP posting again,, he mentions the GR's as being on his
peak bagging route - not that they were GR;s for peaks.

BTW if you start from Pont ar Daf, Bwlch Duwynt is the top of the hill
(and doesn't the wind just howl over the top?), you then go left to
Corn Du or right to Craig Gwaun Taf.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

W. D. Grey said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bwlch Duwynt (how can a peak be a Bwlch???)

Quoted message said:

If you read the OP posting again,, he mentions the GR's as being on
his peak bagging route - not that they were GR;s for peaks.

You may be confusing Paul C's list with the Cambrian Way checkpoints.
Okay, technically he didn't state that his list were all peaks, but I'm
pretty sure that's what he meant, hence his comment "how can a peak be a
Bwlch???"

Quoted message said:

BTW if you start from Pont ar Daf, Bwlch Duwynt is the top of the hill

Well to be pedantic it's the top of the path, not the top of the hill.
:-)

Quoted message said:

(and doesn't the wind just howl over the top?),

It certainly does, I've had trouble staying upright on a few occasions.

Quoted message said:

you then go left to
Corn Du or right to Craig Gwaun Taf.

So we're agreed on calling it Craig Gwaun Taf then?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW if you start from Pont ar Daf, Bwlch Duwynt is the top of the hill

Well to be pedantic it's the top of the path, not the top of the hill.

I should have known better than to make generalisations on this NG :-)

Quoted message said:

:-)

Quoted message said:

(and doesn't the wind just howl over the top?),

It certainly does, I've had trouble staying upright on a few occasions.

Quoted message said:

you then go left to
Corn Du or right to Craig Gwaun Taf.

So we're agreed on calling it Craig Gwaun Taf then?

That's what it's called so we must agree.....innit!

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

Quoted message said:

Has anyone done any part of this, or know anything about it?

Quite a good and detailed online journal:-
http://www.gtleisure.co.uk/walks/cw00/cambwaya.htm#Day1
Janet Street Porter also did it, can't recall the name of her book
that it was in.

I have been doing it myself, but my wife becoming ill has forced me to
put the project on ice. I can't wait to restart as the Rhinogs are
next!
I have been tinkering with an online journal, but it is early days and
as I am no web expert there is probably much better to be found.
http://www.hrfc.co.uk/Steve

What I will say is that it is a rewarding walk with a variety of
magnificent country. I have been amazed to spend three days in lovely
weather and only meet one party of three walkers. Some of the sections
are strenuous and it has certainly given me the impetus to seriously
start going lightweight.

You definately should do it before it becomes too popular!

Steve Jones

Quoted message said:

You definately should do it before it becomes too popular!

Should not be a problem, unless one route becomes official.. Perhaps a
few more books with other routes would help here. Should be treated as
teh TGO walk as a network of routes , not just one.. then you pick one
for your own tastes and interests... Mid Wales's footpaths need more
walkers at lower levels.. get them open.

Its a great idea, and I have done most of it in bits here and there
after the glorious faliure in 1979. Good stuff, and the quiet parts
of the country are always a joy..

Richard Webb

W. D. Grey said:

Quoted message said:

So we're agreed on calling it Craig Gwaun Taf then?

That's what it's called so we must agree.....innit!

But that was the whole point which caused the confusion, the summit is
listed as Duwynt in the Nuttalls book, and they've listed Gwaun Cerrig
Llwydion as Bwlch y Ddwyallt - simply choosing the closest name to the
summit, without regard for what the name obviously refers to. (the
latter is written in the wrong place on the 25k map)

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Steve Jones said:

You definately should do it before it becomes too popular!

Rather too peaky to become very popular as a backpacking route I would
have thought.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

[...]

Quoted message said:

I have been doing it myself, but my wife becoming ill has forced me to
put the project on ice. I can't wait to restart as the Rhinogs are
next!
I have been tinkering with an online journal, but it is early days and
as I am no web expert there is probably much better to be found.
http://www.hrfc.co.uk/Steve

It looks good to me! Is that a red Akto you've got? I love the red
ones, but mine's green.

I hope your wife is soon better, and that you can get back into the
walk 🙂

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet