Campagnolo Athena
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Time, and the cost of employing someone who knows what they are doing. Also, sealed BBs normally don't require the shell to be faced. Two Piece cranksets look like they probably need the BB to be faced but I'm not sure as I haven't worked with one yet. Anyway, it doesn't cost much to get your BB faced. I usually get my LBS to throw it in as a freebie when I buy a new bike from them, but it has been awhile and they might not be as accomodating as they were back then.biker jk said:
In 2007 I bought the (then) $100 Campy 10-speed chain tool.
Last fall I bought the $170 Campy 11-speed chain tool. Basically, the price of three chains. Not inexpensive, but IMO well worth the price of admission.
Like all things Campy, it's built like a Benz, finished like a Ferarri and works with the finesse of a brain surgeon's feel. The two Park chain tools required to handle Campy 11-speed chains were about a C-note. Like most Park tools, they probably work well and offer good value.
I agree with Peter V. Cry once when you buy Campy and use it forever...or until the next gen Campy stuff requires a $300 12-speed tool! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif And I do have English and Italian BB taps and the facing cutters.
For working on junk bikes, junk tools work fine. Chicom trash from Harbor Freight will get a guy thru a few home owner jobs. When working on life's finer mechanical devices, great tools fit the job at hand. If only I could bribe Facom and Snap-On to manufacture bike tools!
Last fall I bought the $170 Campy 11-speed chain tool. Basically, the price of three chains. Not inexpensive, but IMO well worth the price of admission.
Like all things Campy, it's built like a Benz, finished like a Ferarri and works with the finesse of a brain surgeon's feel. The two Park chain tools required to handle Campy 11-speed chains were about a C-note. Like most Park tools, they probably work well and offer good value.
I agree with Peter V. Cry once when you buy Campy and use it forever...or until the next gen Campy stuff requires a $300 12-speed tool! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif And I do have English and Italian BB taps and the facing cutters.
For working on junk bikes, junk tools work fine. Chicom trash from Harbor Freight will get a guy thru a few home owner jobs. When working on life's finer mechanical devices, great tools fit the job at hand. If only I could bribe Facom and Snap-On to manufacture bike tools!
SRAM is awesome... to be able to pull this off, with all of Shimanos momentum the last 20+ years.... purely awesome. I can sleep better at night now, finally!
Its similar (not exact) to how megapixils are with cameras... they keep going up and up, but basically its a marketing tactic.
I'm perfectly fine with my 9-speed.... Campagnolo, or Shimano / SRAM. Standard chain breaker, very inexpensive.
There is something to be said about simplicity (fixie is the extreme).
It seems like you say this just out of spite rather than out of regard for the sake of advancing function. As someone that grew up "bleeding Campagnolo" back in the 80's, I can't think of one thing now that would entice me to spend several thousand dollars more on components that don't work as well as either SRAM or Shimano...
Campagnolo components used to at least look special - now they look like they're stamped out en-masse in the Far East in the same factory as many an eBay special despite being molded en-masse in eastern Europe.
I prefer the look of the current Veloce crank to that of the Super Record...
Nothing out of spite, I'm just telling it how it is. I hope SRAM takes 50% of the OEM market here soon, giving Shimano a run for their money. Born on the dirt.
I stop at 9-speed (for the most part, Campagnolo road and my mountain group sets). The short 3-year evolution of Campy 9-speed was awesome, astheticly pleasing, durable, a fun groupset. I still say in the early 1980's is where Campy dropped the ball. They didn't spend enough on R&D in making their chain/cassette interface an awesome match (like how Shimano computer generated Hyperglide). Campy components can/are tend to be finicky, in terms of adjusting, setting up their shifting in the cassette- RD. Shimano and SRAM its pretty much plug + play... your rockin and rollin out of the gate, no worries.... even 1000's of miles down the line on the same cassette. Its great that Campy pushes the envolope, the first to come out with 9spd, 10spd... 11spd , offer carbon and titanium parts, etc. , however where they F'-ed up was with their ramping of their cassette. I'm able, and willing to say this, as I'm 90+% Italian, and it hurts me to see thats where Campy went wrong... with one MAJOR design element that they should have paid more attension to.
Business is business. Thats the main reason why it jumped to 10spd.... now 11spd. It has to stop somewhere. Where will it go next, internal hub shifting, belt drives, etc. I'll always be a loyal fan of Chris King , Hope, Mavic, 3T/Deda/Cinelli/ITM quad-fecta bar/stem masters, Race Face, Formula, and DT-Swiss. Its just that with the major components manufactures, there are ONLY three players in the game (unlike frame builders, crankset makers, saddle makers, etc). They have a tight market, exciting, but very competitive as well. The high level of competition is a good thing, healthy thing, for the most part. Parts are designed in house, and made elsewhere (China/Taiwan), etc. Thats how business is.
As long as I have my saddle and shoes of choice, thats 90+ % of the equation. I'll ride Campy, Shimano, SRAM... what ever. It all eventually turns into rubble anyways /img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif
I stop at 9-speed (for the most part, Campagnolo road and my mountain group sets). The short 3-year evolution of Campy 9-speed was awesome, astheticly pleasing, durable, a fun groupset. I still say in the early 1980's is where Campy dropped the ball. They didn't spend enough on R&D in making their chain/cassette interface an awesome match (like how Shimano computer generated Hyperglide). Campy components can/are tend to be finicky, in terms of adjusting, setting up their shifting in the cassette- RD. Shimano and SRAM its pretty much plug + play... your rockin and rollin out of the gate, no worries.... even 1000's of miles down the line on the same cassette. Its great that Campy pushes the envolope, the first to come out with 9spd, 10spd... 11spd , offer carbon and titanium parts, etc. , however where they F'-ed up was with their ramping of their cassette. I'm able, and willing to say this, as I'm 90+% Italian, and it hurts me to see thats where Campy went wrong... with one MAJOR design element that they should have paid more attension to.
Business is business. Thats the main reason why it jumped to 10spd.... now 11spd. It has to stop somewhere. Where will it go next, internal hub shifting, belt drives, etc. I'll always be a loyal fan of Chris King , Hope, Mavic, 3T/Deda/Cinelli/ITM quad-fecta bar/stem masters, Race Face, Formula, and DT-Swiss. Its just that with the major components manufactures, there are ONLY three players in the game (unlike frame builders, crankset makers, saddle makers, etc). They have a tight market, exciting, but very competitive as well. The high level of competition is a good thing, healthy thing, for the most part. Parts are designed in house, and made elsewhere (China/Taiwan), etc. Thats how business is.
As long as I have my saddle and shoes of choice, thats 90+ % of the equation. I'll ride Campy, Shimano, SRAM... what ever. It all eventually turns into rubble anyways /img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif
I can't think of one thing now that would entice me to spend [COLOR= #ff0000]several thousand dollars more [/COLOR]on components that don't work as well as either SRAM or Shimano...
Wait...wut???
Are you saying Rival or 105 work better than Super Record...and weigh less and offer more gears too?
At Colorado Cyclist, a Record 8-piece is $2200. Dura-Ass is $1900. Surely it's worth a mere $300 not to be seen screwing a fat chick, riding a mo-ped or pedalling Shimano.
Sram RedBlackPink is also $2200.
I'll grant you Ultegra Di2 is the best deal on the planet if you want to walk down to Electric Avenue right now.
All three manufacturers offer good stuff right now. All three off-shore manufacturing and all three offer slightly different features and stress slightly different attributes of design and construction. All three win at the pro level and work well enough for the weekend warrior.
I'm PO'd at Campy for:
1. Dropping seatposts from their line.
2. Poorly supporting headsets.
3. Only offering pedals at the Record level. And having them manufactured by Look.
4. Going to Germany for chains.
I do like their good small parts support (contact Oschner). They have awesome tools (priced awesomely, of course!).
Wait...wut???
Are you saying Rival or 105 work better than Super Record...and weigh less and offer more gears too?
At Colorado Cyclist, a Record 8-piece is $2200. Dura-Ass is $1900. Surely it's worth a mere $300 not to be seen screwing a fat chick, riding a mo-ped or pedalling Shimano.
Sram RedBlackPink is also $2200.
I'll grant you Ultegra Di2 is the best deal on the planet if you want to walk down to Electric Avenue right now.
All three manufacturers offer good stuff right now. All three off-shore manufacturing and all three offer slightly different features and stress slightly different attributes of design and construction. All three win at the pro level and work well enough for the weekend warrior.
I'm PO'd at Campy for:
1. Dropping seatposts from their line.
2. Poorly supporting headsets.
3. Only offering pedals at the Record level. And having them manufactured by Look.
4. Going to Germany for chains.
I do like their good small parts support (contact Oschner). They have awesome tools (priced awesomely, of course!).
Athena adopted Power Shift for the 2011 shifters (vs. the Ultra shift of the current Chorus/Record and the 2010 Athena). I've read a few places to go for the older (carbon) shifters because the mech uses bearings vs. bushings and is supposedly "superior". And the older version offers multiple shifts.
Q1: is the new design superior, or just different?
Q2: were/are the bearings/bushings for shifting function, or braking function? And what is the downside of bushing over bearing?
Q3: I'm curious what a Campy rider who has experienced both would go for from a performance/reliability standpoint (the main reason I'd get the new alloy shifter would be for appearance, but at the end of the day I would prefer the superior performer).
Q1: is the new design superior, or just different?
Q2: were/are the bearings/bushings for shifting function, or braking function? And what is the downside of bushing over bearing?
Q3: I'm curious what a Campy rider who has experienced both would go for from a performance/reliability standpoint (the main reason I'd get the new alloy shifter would be for appearance, but at the end of the day I would prefer the superior performer).
q1. Multiple shifts is far superior IMO. Even in those dark days of pre-history when friction shifters and dinsaurs ruled the earth...we shifted multiple gears.
q2. Upper tier Campy components use ball bearing on the shifting axle and ball thrust bearings. Both are utilized to decrease internal friction when actuating the movement.
q3. I only have Chorus and Record Ultra-Shift. With the offering of so many ratios and living in terrain with rapid and reoccuring elevation changes, I like the ability to single-shift and effect a multiple gear change.
YMMV
q2. Upper tier Campy components use ball bearing on the shifting axle and ball thrust bearings. Both are utilized to decrease internal friction when actuating the movement.
q3. I only have Chorus and Record Ultra-Shift. With the offering of so many ratios and living in terrain with rapid and reoccuring elevation changes, I like the ability to single-shift and effect a multiple gear change.
YMMV
danfox said:
- I think the ergonomics of the newish Campy hood and lever shape are better than the hold. The shape and size of the horn on the hood coupled with the curve of the lever provides more secure and better braking from the hoods. I also think the hoods are more comfortable in general. Note that's not to say that the old hoods weren't comfortable.
- I came from 2005 Record brifters which used bearings and am now on Centaur 10s brifters which use bushings. It's really hard to tell the difference, so much so that I think few would notice the difference.
- In all, I wish I had my old Record brifters back or that I was running 11 spd Chorus, Record, or Super Record. I miss being able to grab more than one gear in both directions on the rear derailleur. PowerShift only lets you upshift in the rear (i.e., shift to smaller cogs) one gear at a time. I'm über happy with the ergonomics but just don't like being limited to that one upshift at a time in the rear. With that said, the Centaur brifter function has been flawless. The click of each shift isn't as "mechanical" as with my old Record brifters but it's still good. I really like a well defined "click", which is one reason why I don't like Shimano or SRAM brifters. I see 11 spd Super Record or Record in my future.....unless I win the lottery or one of the in-laws dies, in which case I also have Super Record EPS on an additional frame.
I'm speaking in terms of SRAM taking Shimano's market share (components sold on OEM bikes, plus total units of components sold in comparison to Shimano). = Awesome.
I really only have long term (2+ years) experience with SRAM MTB components. Their rear derailleurs are solid(X9 or X0), chains seem to be fine (all chains stretch), and at least getting their 950 - 970 series cassettes seem to be fine for durability. I've had X7 and X9 shifters, and they all seems to be good/solid (2004- 2008 parts).
I think Shimano XT/XTR , 105/Ultegra cassettes shift a bit better then SRAM. SRAM couldn't copy Shimano's hyperglide design to a "T" , but its the next best alternative. Support Shimano or SRAM ?! On SRAM or Shimano road shifters , you cannot rebuild them like Campy BB-system components
Certainly SRAM made big, quick moves in the road market, but I think SRAM has to be careful for a while. They were and according to some still are really extended, possibly over extended financially. I think they also need to work on their QC and pay a bit more attention to how their stuff holds up over time. It's good to have them in the road market, and they've certainly pushed Shimano and Campy, both of which have responded well with cool, new developments.Adam-from-SLO said:
Since we're on this "need" kick, I don't think we "need" electronic shifting either, but it's here so all the people who have money to burn can run around screaming to their friends and family they have electronic shifting.
I hope there will be a Croce D'Aune group, there's just something about the way that name rolls off the tongue, and think of the entertainment value it would have listening to everyone try to pronounce it correctly. heck a lot of people still can't pronounce Superbe correctly not alone a word like Croce D'Aune!!
I hope there will be a Croce D'Aune group, there's just something about the way that name rolls off the tongue, and think of the entertainment value it would have listening to everyone try to pronounce it correctly. heck a lot of people still can't pronounce Superbe correctly not alone a word like Croce D'Aune!!
