Campagnolo O/S Cassette Body Bearings Question



R

Robin Hubert

Guest
Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.

I did some minor banging on the inner "race" with a socket that barely
slipped through the axle bore from the inside. They didn't seem to want
to budge and I was in fear of driving the inner race from the
cartridge(s). Yes, I removed the set screw but that made no difference
(and I couldn't see the effect, frankly, of the screw).

If I have to buy Campagnolo small parts I'm just going to buy a whole
new hub. That way I get cones, axle, bearings, skewer ....

Cheap pay for Chorus/Centaur 9/10sp cassette body is $60. Record is
$90-something (my hub is Record but I'll replace it with
Chorus/Centaur). Cones are about $20 each (I'm talking wholesale
prices!). That axle is worth $40. Skewer is worth $30. You can buy a
Chorus rear hub at
http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1892-32' for
$130. Hmmm ... do the math. Isn't Campagnolo Grand!

As a technical aside (ok, it's a ***** rant), Campagnolo ought to make
these bearings easily serviceable/replaceable since it is such a weak
design. They are too small and vulnerable to properly do the job. The
nerve of them to charge so much money for fixes to an inferior design!

And, just to be fair, this hub has approx. 20K miles.

Hasn't Shimano's (or whoever's) patent on their freehub design expired?



Robin Hubert
 
J

jim beam

Guest
Robin Hubert wrote:
> Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
> big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.
>
> I did some minor banging on the inner "race" with a socket that barely
> slipped through the axle bore from the inside. They didn't seem to want
> to budge and I was in fear of driving the inner race from the
> cartridge(s). Yes, I removed the set screw but that made no difference
> (and I couldn't see the effect, frankly, of the screw).
>
> If I have to buy Campagnolo small parts I'm just going to buy a whole
> new hub. That way I get cones, axle, bearings, skewer ....
>
> Cheap pay for Chorus/Centaur 9/10sp cassette body is $60. Record is
> $90-something (my hub is Record but I'll replace it with
> Chorus/Centaur). Cones are about $20 each (I'm talking wholesale
> prices!). That axle is worth $40. Skewer is worth $30. You can buy a
> Chorus rear hub at
> http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1892-32' for
> $130. Hmmm ... do the math. Isn't Campagnolo Grand!
>
> As a technical aside (ok, it's a ***** rant), Campagnolo ought to make
> these bearings easily serviceable/replaceable since it is such a weak
> design. They are too small and vulnerable to properly do the job. The
> nerve of them to charge so much money for fixes to an inferior design!


the shimano freehub with outboard bearing design is arguably better, but
it too is susceptible to weather damage as the seals aren't that good,
on their road hubs at least. [that said, my mtb hubs are holding up
very well and they get stuck in all kinds of horrendous conditions.]

campy are however good for racing. their hubs are light and the
bearings beautifully free. do what most people do - have a pair of
"everyday" wheels - the high mileage/wet weather ones, and keep your
records for race day. my current wet ride is a mavic cosmos rear wheel.
[readily available] sealed cartridge bearings.

>
> And, just to be fair, this hub has approx. 20K miles.
>
> Hasn't Shimano's (or whoever's) patent on their freehub design expired?
>
>
>
> Robin Hubert
 
R

Robin Hubert

Guest
jim beam wrote:
> Robin Hubert wrote:
>
>> Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay
>> the big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.
>>
>> I did some minor banging on the inner "race" with a socket that barely
>> slipped through the axle bore from the inside. They didn't seem to
>> want to budge and I was in fear of driving the inner race from the
>> cartridge(s). Yes, I removed the set screw but that made no
>> difference (and I couldn't see the effect, frankly, of the screw).
>>
>> If I have to buy Campagnolo small parts I'm just going to buy a whole
>> new hub. That way I get cones, axle, bearings, skewer ....
>>
>> Cheap pay for Chorus/Centaur 9/10sp cassette body is $60. Record is
>> $90-something (my hub is Record but I'll replace it with
>> Chorus/Centaur). Cones are about $20 each (I'm talking wholesale
>> prices!). That axle is worth $40. Skewer is worth $30. You can buy
>> a Chorus rear hub at
>> http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1892-32' for
>> $130. Hmmm ... do the math. Isn't Campagnolo Grand!
>>
>> As a technical aside (ok, it's a ***** rant), Campagnolo ought to make
>> these bearings easily serviceable/replaceable since it is such a weak
>> design. They are too small and vulnerable to properly do the job.
>> The nerve of them to charge so much money for fixes to an inferior
>> design!

>
>
> the shimano freehub with outboard bearing design is arguably better, but
> it too is susceptible to weather damage as the seals aren't that good,
> on their road hubs at least. [that said, my mtb hubs are holding up
> very well and they get stuck in all kinds of horrendous conditions.]
>
> campy are however good for racing. their hubs are light and the
> bearings beautifully free. do what most people do - have a pair of
> "everyday" wheels - the high mileage/wet weather ones, and keep your
> records for race day. my current wet ride is a mavic cosmos rear wheel.
> [readily available] sealed cartridge bearings.


Yes, I agree. I have XT hubs on my Gunnar Sport. You must agree that I
got good use of these bearings though, having been ridden in all manner
of weather for a 5 years. However, I still balk at the price of
replacement. Shimano's freehub bodies are generally far cheaper
(Ultegra 6600 FH body costs $23; XT at $13) though they seem to have
learned from Campagnolo with their latest offerings.

Keep in mind that Shimano freehub bodies can actually be flushed and
lubed and even properly serviced if you're adept at either procuring
obscure tools or making your own.

>
>>
>> And, just to be fair, this hub has approx. 20K miles.
>>
>> Hasn't Shimano's (or whoever's) patent on their freehub design expired?
>>
>>
>>
>> Robin Hubert

>
>


On a related note, have you any advice on replacement of the bearings?


Robin Hubert
 
J

jim beam

Guest
Robin Hubert wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> Robin Hubert wrote:
>>
>>> Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay
>>> the big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.
>>>
>>> I did some minor banging on the inner "race" with a socket that
>>> barely slipped through the axle bore from the inside. They didn't
>>> seem to want to budge and I was in fear of driving the inner race
>>> from the cartridge(s). Yes, I removed the set screw but that made no
>>> difference (and I couldn't see the effect, frankly, of the screw).
>>>
>>> If I have to buy Campagnolo small parts I'm just going to buy a whole
>>> new hub. That way I get cones, axle, bearings, skewer ....
>>>
>>> Cheap pay for Chorus/Centaur 9/10sp cassette body is $60. Record is
>>> $90-something (my hub is Record but I'll replace it with
>>> Chorus/Centaur). Cones are about $20 each (I'm talking wholesale
>>> prices!). That axle is worth $40. Skewer is worth $30. You can buy
>>> a Chorus rear hub at
>>> http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1892-32' for
>>> $130. Hmmm ... do the math. Isn't Campagnolo Grand!
>>>
>>> As a technical aside (ok, it's a ***** rant), Campagnolo ought to
>>> make these bearings easily serviceable/replaceable since it is such a
>>> weak design. They are too small and vulnerable to properly do the
>>> job. The nerve of them to charge so much money for fixes to an
>>> inferior design!

>>
>>
>>
>> the shimano freehub with outboard bearing design is arguably better,
>> but it too is susceptible to weather damage as the seals aren't that
>> good, on their road hubs at least. [that said, my mtb hubs are
>> holding up very well and they get stuck in all kinds of horrendous
>> conditions.]
>>
>> campy are however good for racing. their hubs are light and the
>> bearings beautifully free. do what most people do - have a pair of
>> "everyday" wheels - the high mileage/wet weather ones, and keep your
>> records for race day. my current wet ride is a mavic cosmos rear
>> wheel. [readily available] sealed cartridge bearings.

>
>
> Yes, I agree. I have XT hubs on my Gunnar Sport. You must agree that I
> got good use of these bearings though, having been ridden in all manner
> of weather for a 5 years. However, I still balk at the price of
> replacement.


sure, but for most people that aren't doing the work themselves [and
many of whom often want the excuse for something new & bright & shiny],
replacing parts and paying for labor is comparable to replacement. for
campy, the last hubs i had were 98 record, & those were definitely
inferior to the current models, so again, i'd look to upgrade rather
than repair.

> Shimano's freehub bodies are generally far cheaper
> (Ultegra 6600 FH body costs $23; XT at $13) though they seem to have
> learned from Campagnolo with their latest offerings.
>
> Keep in mind that Shimano freehub bodies can actually be flushed and
> lubed and even properly serviced if you're adept at either procuring
> obscure tools or making your own.


yes, i've done that. don't think it's worth it vs. the cost of replacement.

>
>>
>>>
>>> And, just to be fair, this hub has approx. 20K miles.
>>>
>>> Hasn't Shimano's (or whoever's) patent on their freehub design expired?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robin Hubert

>>
>>
>>

>
> On a related note, have you any advice on replacement of the bearings?
>
>
> Robin Hubert


for shimano? don't bother. for cartridge bearings? there's this:
http://www.bbinstitute.com/BM5 chap 13.pdf.

for cup & cone in general, there is some limited value in ball
replacement, but only if you're doing it yourself. generally, by the
time you notice that a bearing's distressed, the races are damaged. the
cups can take more abuse, but the cones need to be replaced & the cost
of parts + labor is a skinny margin compared to replacing the whole hub.
just replacing balls is imo a false economy. if replacement is
"pre-emptive", most of the time it's more opportunity for contaminants
to /enter/ the races than will be removed by re-greasing. grease
quality is important too - needs to be waterproof but not too thick
[lithium greases can emulsify in water].

i think the single most effective thing you can do for any hub is adjust
so the bearings are just tight enough when the quick release is closed.
[campy have that problem /solved/.] over-tight = dramatically reduced
bearing life. check out sheldon's site for advice on that.
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Robin Hubert wrote:
> Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
> big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.


The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
remove.
>
>
> If I have to buy Campagnolo small parts I'm just going to buy a whole
> new hub. That way I get cones, axle, bearings, skewer ....

\
\All that $ for a $10 bearing doesn't make sense to me.
Isn't Campagnolo Grand!
>
> As a technical aside (ok, it's a ***** rant), Campagnolo ought to make
> these bearings easily serviceable/replaceable since it is such a weak
> design. They are too small and vulnerable to properly do the job. The
> nerve of them to charge so much money for fixes to an inferior design!
>
> And, just to be fair, this hub has approx. 20K miles.


A little grease into these when new and grease/clean regularly, more
often than 20k, is a great idea. The top one is replaceable, as I said,
with a standard bearing. The small size is not the culprit, it is the
lack fo maintenance.
The cones are replaceable as well and are the same front/rear..'Weak'
design because you had one get dirty and fail doesn't wash. We see
these things everyday and regular OVH has them leats well past a meezly
20k.
>
> Hasn't Shimano's (or whoever's) patent on their freehub design expired?


Take a look at the 7800 hub design....zounds!! Just like Campagnolo.
The outboard bearing support of traditional shimano hubs was not a
panacea for no failures or damage. Try to replace the bearings inside
the shimano freehub bodies.
>
>
>
> Robin Hubert
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
> Robin Hubert wrote:
>>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
>>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.


Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
> inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
> The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
> remove.

-snip-

Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
inside again. That clip is not so difficult.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
A Muzi wrote:
> > Robin Hubert wrote:
> >>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
> >>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.

>
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
> > inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
> > The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
> > remove.

> -snip-
>
> Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
> inside again. That clip is not so difficult.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Thanks Andy, I will but we haven't seen a lower bearing go south yet.
Upper ones for sure but not the lower ones.
 
R

Robin Hubert

Guest
A Muzi wrote:
> > Robin Hubert wrote:

>
>>> Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
>>> big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.

>
>
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>> The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
>> inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
>> The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
>> remove.

>
> -snip-
>
> Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look inside again.
> That clip is not so difficult.
>


Andy,
Would you be so kind as to outline the steps necessary to remove and
service these bearings?

Robin Hubert
 
R

Robin Hubert

Guest
A Muzi wrote:
> > Robin Hubert wrote:
> >>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
> >>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.

>
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
> > inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
> > The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
> > remove.

> -snip-
>
> Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
> inside again. That clip is not so difficult.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Once again, I'll ask the question, could one of you really smart guys
explain how this is done, or should I just hack it myself and report
back to the newsgroup with some TRULY HELPFUL INFORMATION?

Two of the supposed most knowledgeable bike guys on this newsgroup, and
not a legitimate answer to a poster's question. Interested in showing
off or helping today?

Thanks for your time! No, really!!!

Robin Hubert
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 9 Jul 2005 12:38:20 -0700, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>A Muzi wrote:
>> > Robin Hubert wrote:
>> >>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
>> >>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.

>>
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> > The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
>> > inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
>> > The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
>> > remove.

>> -snip-
>>
>> Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
>> inside again. That clip is not so difficult.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> www.yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

>
>Once again, I'll ask the question, could one of you really smart guys
>explain how this is done, or should I just hack it myself and report
>back to the newsgroup with some TRULY HELPFUL INFORMATION?
>
>Two of the supposed most knowledgeable bike guys on this newsgroup, and
>not a legitimate answer to a poster's question. Interested in showing
>off or helping today?


You asked if they could be replaced and you got your answer, "YES."

You were also advised that QBC has the parts.

> Thanks for your time! No, really!!!


I cannot imagine why on earth anyone here would ever again even begin to bother
trying to help you. It isn't like there's any appreciation or gratitude
involved. Maybe your momma responds helpfully when you shriek and beat on your
high chair, don't think anyone here will.

If you didn't get enough of an answer, you might try asking another question
instead of insulting the people who already told you what you asked.

Ron
 
R

Robin Hubert

Guest
RonSonic wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2005 12:38:20 -0700, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>A Muzi wrote:
>>
>>>>Robin Hubert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
>>>>>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.
>>>
>>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>>
>>>>The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
>>>>inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
>>>>The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
>>>>remove.
>>>
>>>-snip-
>>>
>>>Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
>>>inside again. That clip is not so difficult.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Andrew Muzi
>>>www.yellowjersey.org
>>>Open every day since 1 April, 1971

>>
>>Once again, I'll ask the question, could one of you really smart guys
>>explain how this is done, or should I just hack it myself and report
>>back to the newsgroup with some TRULY HELPFUL INFORMATION?
>>
>>Two of the supposed most knowledgeable bike guys on this newsgroup, and
>>not a legitimate answer to a poster's question. Interested in showing
>>off or helping today?

>
>
> You asked if they could be replaced and you got your answer, "YES."
>
> You were also advised that QBC has the parts.
>
>
>> Thanks for your time! No, really!!!

>
>
> I cannot imagine why on earth anyone here would ever again even begin to bother
> trying to help you. It isn't like there's any appreciation or gratitude
> involved. Maybe your momma responds helpfully when you shriek and beat on your
> high chair, don't think anyone here will.
>
> If you didn't get enough of an answer, you might try asking another question
> instead of insulting the people who already told you what you asked.
>
> Ron


Uh, thanks,

Robin
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Robin Hubert wrote:

> Once again, I'll ask the question, could one of you really smart guys
> explain how this is done, or should I just hack it myself and report
> back to the newsgroup with some TRULY HELPFUL INFORMATION?
>
> Two of the supposed most knowledgeable bike guys on this newsgroup, and
> not a legitimate answer to a poster's question. Interested in showing
> off or helping today?
>
> Thanks for your time! No, really!!!
>
> Robin Hubert


Why don't you calm down Robin. This is the second post today that I've
read from you, the other about turning a sp clamp around, that is
really 'in yer face' type thing.

As for the bearing, tap out the top bearing, clean out the grease and
look inside, see a c-clip-remove it...

now be a nice boy and take yer pill....
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
>>>>Robin Hubert wrote:
>>>>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
>>>>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.


>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>>The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
>>>inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
>>>The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
>>>remove.


> A Muzi wrote:
>>Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
>>inside again. That clip is not so difficult.


Robin Hubert wrote:
> Once again, I'll ask the question, could one of you really smart guys
> explain how this is done, or should I just hack it myself and report
> back to the newsgroup with some TRULY HELPFUL INFORMATION?
>
> Two of the supposed most knowledgeable bike guys on this newsgroup, and
> not a legitimate answer to a poster's question. Interested in showing
> off or helping today?
>

Sorry. I don't get to recreate here as often as I would like
now.
Turn the cassette body over and tap out the outer bearing.
The inner bearing is retained by a slit snapring. You can
undo that with a pointy spoke by walking one end out of its
groove, follow it around until it pops out. The bearing is
neither rare nor expensive.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
>>>>Robin Hubert wrote:
>>>>>Can these be removed/replaced? Mine are shot and I'd rather not pay the
>>>>>big bucks for Campagnolo small parts if I can help it.


>>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>>>The upper one can, I can't remember the number but QBPs has them. The
>>>>inner one cannot but I have never seen one go south, only yhe top one.
>>>>The inner one is held by a blind c-clip that is really impossible to
>>>>remove.


>>A Muzi wrote:
>>>Both are replaced here without dificulty. You should look
>>>inside again. That clip is not so difficult.


> On 9 Jul 2005 12:38:20 -0700, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Once again, I'll ask the question, could one of you really smart guys
>>explain how this is done, or should I just hack it myself and report
>>back to the newsgroup with some TRULY HELPFUL INFORMATION?
>>
>>Two of the supposed most knowledgeable bike guys on this newsgroup, and
>>not a legitimate answer to a poster's question. Interested in showing
>>off or helping today?


RonSonic wrote:
> You asked if they could be replaced and you got your answer, "YES."
> You were also advised that QBC has the parts.
> I cannot imagine why on earth anyone here would ever again even begin to bother
> trying to help you. It isn't like there's any appreciation or gratitude
> involved. Maybe your momma responds helpfully when you shriek and beat on your
> high chair, don't think anyone here will.
>
> If you didn't get enough of an answer, you might try asking another question
> instead of insulting the people who already told you what you asked.


I wasn't offended. But I was surprised that someone with a
bad bearnig wasn't curious enough to find the snap ring.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971