Campagnolo & Shimano



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dailuggs

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Aug 27, 2003
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£ for £ which is better?

looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £

it appears as the groupsets to compare are:

CAMPAGNOLO SHIMANO
xenon sora
mirage tiagra
veloce 105


please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight answer :)

oh and if your not sure about comparing the groupsets just generally campagnolo or shimano

cheers guys and gals
 
M

Mark

Guest
In article <[email protected]1.usenetserver.com>, usenet- [email protected] says...
> £ for £ which is better?
>
> looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO
> even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £
>
> it appears as the groupsets to compare are:
>
> CAMPAGNOLO SHIMANO xenon sora mirage tiagra veloce 105
>
>
> please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight
> answer :)
>
> oh and if your not sure about comparing the groupsets just generally campagnolo or shimano
>
> cheers guys and gals
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>

Oh dear, here we go!

I vote for Campag, no ugly STI cables coming from the hoods, and it's easy to buy individual
components when things need fixing.

I use 2003 10 speed Record on my race bike, and 2002 9 speed Veloce on my winter trainer.

Do a Google on rec.bicyles.tech, this age old issue has been discussed many a time.

I can guarantee you won't get a 'straight' answer though!

--
Mark (MSA) This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling of contents may
have occurred during transmission
 
Z

Zog The Undenia

Guest
dailuggs wrote:

> £ for £ which is better?

That's a bit like "which is better, Chinese or Indian food?". The technical differences are few, but
some people prefer Campag Ergopower shifters because all the cables go under the handlebar tape.
There's an old adage that Campag wears in while Shimano wears out, but I'm not sure how true this
is. I have ancient (10 years+) Shimano mechs that still have no slop in them.

Personally I like Shimano because the quality of engineering is very good for the price, but some
people feel it lacks class somehow.
 
P

Pete Biggs

Guest
dailuggs wrote:
> please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight
> answer :)

Seriously, there aren't any straight answers to this one. Too many overlapping and complex
differences to make direct VFM comparisons. Both manufacturers produce some excellent stuff and fans
will argue (and I mean argue!) that their favourite is "smoother" or "more positive" or "more
durable". A lot of it this is actually BS.

If you want combined brake & gear levers, I suggest choosing the make of the whole set by what make
of levers you prefer. The rest of the kit will get on with its job but there are major differences
in function and ergonomics between the two makes of this most important part. Have a go on both
brands of levers if you're not sure, but bear in mind that Shimano STIs are generally not repairable
as well as being more expensive than Campag Ergos (oh, and can't change up more than one gear at
once). On the other hand, Ergos do need the springs changing every now and then which is a pain.

I know a bit more about Campag so I'm happy to help with more detail later if you want to go that
route. If not buying a complete bike, you don't have to buy a whole groupset. Better value can be
had by mixing parts from more than one group if you can afford more than all-Xenon or Mirage.

~PB
 
P

Peter B

Guest
"Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There's an old adage that Campag wears in while Shimano wears out, but I'm not sure how true this
> is. I have ancient (10 years+) Shimano mechs that still have no slop in them.

Yeah, I've got a 4 year old XT rear mech on my mtb that's taken far more abuse than any road mech
ever would and a 12 years old set of XT rapidfire shifters on the bike I rode this afternoon. The
Campag Athena indexed DT shifters on my last road bike gave up after 7 years.

(now waiting for a peeing contest to develop of anecdotes about bike kit longevity ;-)
--
Regards, Pete
 
M

Mseries

Guest
dailuggs wrote:
> £ for £ which is better?

Who knows which is better ? I have only Shimano groupset parts (I have had Campag pedals and I have
a campag seat pin) and have been very very pleased with them. Some items have lasted over 10 years
and would have gone on for longer had I not got tired of the superficial scratches.

I like Shimano for the across range and across the ages compatibility, for example my 1988 '105' six
speed levers work perfectly with my 1988 six speed cassette and 2003 nine speed XT rear mech.

Choosing a new bike I'd choose Shimano so I can swap parts around and I already have the
toolset to do so.
 
N

Nick

Guest
I have Campag Record and am very pleased with it. Before that I had Shimano DuraAce which was good
but not as good, in my opinion.

Why I prefer Campag:

1. Changing gear is so quick and smooth that I find I change gear more often and maintain a more
consistent cadence
2. It is possible to change gear under load eg. in the saddle up a steep hill. I couldn't do that
using DuraAce
3. As a prestige brand name you can't beat Campagnolo! I couldn't afford it when I was younger so
it's nice to have it now (I know this isn't much of a reason)

Hope that helps.

dailuggs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> £ for £ which is better?
>
> looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO
> even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £
>
> it appears as the groupsets to compare are:
>
> CAMPAGNOLO SHIMANO xenon sora mirage tiagra veloce 105
>
>
> please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight
> answer :)
>
> oh and if your not sure about comparing the groupsets just generally campagnolo or shimano
>
> cheers guys and gals
>
>
>
> --
 
N

Niv

Guest
> looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO
> even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £
>
Here's my tuppence worth:

Well, my "nice" road bike is Campag Record/Chorus mix (8 spd, from '96, spares getting hard, will
upgrade soon to 9/10 spd Rec/Ch & carbon forks, else a nice new ti bike if lotto come up!), my
winter hack is now 9 spd Veloce (was old 7 spd 105), and is really nice for hack.

My MTB is Shimano (XT I think), just down from there top range stuff.

I think this is the bast way, C for road, not horrid cables everywhere, but S for off road, as C are
newish to offroad (I think).

Niv.
 
M

Martin Family

Guest
On 14/2/04 9:41 am, in article
[email protected], "Niv"
<niv*SPAMOFF*@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I think this is the bast way, C for road, not horrid cables everywhere, but S for off road, as C
> are newish to offroad (I think).

Campag did an off road groupset in the late eighties/early nineties. Can't remember what it was
called but it never caught on.

My ancient shimano uniglide 7spd (sante/ultegra) shifts quite well under load.

When I get the new bike I'll be looking at a good road triple setup, so will be hopefully in
the price range for shimano 105 (which is better than ultegra was 10 years ago) and the
equivalent Campag.

I kind of like the idea of a custom fillet brazed steel frame and campag bits. Black paint with
reflective paint box lining would be pretty cool.

..d
 
N

Niv

Guest
> I kind of like the idea of a custom fillet brazed steel frame and campag bits. Black paint with
> reflective paint box lining would be pretty cool.
>

That's basically what I got back in '96, from Chas Roberts. It's a beautifully done job, lovely
smooth fillet brazing on Coumbus EL oversize tubing (although the oversize is marginal & not really
noticed), and fits really well. I think the frame may be superceded by new technology now, but I
wont go to an Al. frame because of the reported road buzz & overly stiff vertical compliance (or
lack of compliance).

Anyway, go for it, you'll love having a custom frame/bike.

I can recommend Chas Roberts if you're anyway near the south (he's in Croydon), but a friend had a
nice frame from O'Rourkes, (midlands somewhere).

I'm thinking of an Omega ti frame, but off the bike for 3 weeks now & will be for another month or
so before I can do do any real mileage; a seriously f****d shoulder after a skiing accident, damn.

Niv.
 
M

Martin Family

Guest
On 14/2/04 1:26 pm, in article
[email protected], "Niv"
<niv*SPAMOFF*@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
>> I kind of like the idea of a custom fillet brazed steel frame and campag bits. Black paint with
>> reflective paint box lining would be pretty cool.
>>
>
> That's basically what I got back in '96, from Chas Roberts. It's a beautifully done job, lovely
> smooth fillet brazing on Coumbus EL oversize tubing (although the oversize is marginal & not
> really noticed), and fits really well. I think the frame may be superceded by new technology now,
> but I wont go to an Al. frame because of the reported road buzz & overly stiff vertical compliance
> (or lack of compliance).

I'm not worried too much about the compliance, more the 90kgs ( hopefully about 10kg less by the
time I get round to ordering it.) and the ability to get something to fit with the appropriate
fittings (mudguards, racks, possibly dynamo mount).

> Anyway, go for it, you'll love having a custom frame/bike.
>
> I can recommend Chas Roberts if you're anyway near the south (he's in Croydon), but a friend had a
> nice frame from O'Rourkes, (midlands somewhere).

He is near my parents. There are a load of good builders around. The main issue is getting something
inside the budget.. I may have to compromise on the componentry to get under the magic cutoff.

>
> I'm thinking of an Omega ti frame, but off the bike for 3 weeks now & will be for another month or
> so before I can do do any real mileage; a seriously f****d shoulder after a skiing accident, damn.

Both my shoulders still ache after a few cross-country skiing accidents. (those aren't trees,
they're brakes). Falling hard on ice is no fun.

..d

>
> Niv.
 
N

Niv

Guest
> Both my shoulders still ache after a few cross-country skiing accidents. (those aren't trees,
> they're brakes). Falling hard on ice is no fun.
>
It was worse than that, arm bent behind me I think, causing a torn shoulder muscle; & it was the
first day! Anyway, physio is talking 8 months full recovery, but mostly OK in 6 weeks or so.

Niv.
 
P

Pete Biggs

Guest
davebee wrote:
> Back on topic....
>
> Do campag make off road parts?

Not any more but they've dabbled in the past

See: www.andysbikes.com/articles/campagMTB/index.html

~PB
 
P

Pete Whelan

Guest
Pete Biggs wrote:
> davebee wrote:
>
>>Back on topic....
>>
>>Do campag make off road parts?
>
>
> Not any more but they've dabbled in the past
>
> See: www.andysbikes.com/articles/campagMTB/index.html
>
> ~PB
>
>

But you could still use current product OK for cyclo-cross (ergo levers and long arm rear
mech, etc).

--
Pete

interchange 12 for 21 to reply
 
D

David E. Belche

Guest
Pete Whelan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> But you could still use current product OK for cyclo-cross (ergo levers and long arm rear
> mech, etc).

As, indeed, I have done and still do; Ergopower is, to my mind, the better system for off-roading,
since the cables are all concealed under the bar tape and thus less likely to snag on obstructions
or when shouldering the bike. Don't recommend the use of a long-cage rear mech, though (unless you
use a triple chainset, and then it's a must), as they seem to be better at collecting twigs and
other foliage. A lot of the pros (Bart Wellens and Roger Hammond, to name two at random) seem to use
Shimano stuff for 'cross, but then they're paid to and can't pick & choose!

David E. Belcher
 
D

David E. Belche

Guest
"Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Seriously, there aren't any straight answers to this one. Too many overlapping and complex
> differences to make direct VFM comparisons. Both manufacturers produce some excellent stuff and
> fans will argue (and I mean argue!) that their favourite is "smoother" or "more positive" or "more
> durable". A lot of it this is actually BS.

It was generally accepted that Campag had a "clunkier" gear change a few years ago, with STI being
slicker (not really the man to comment, as I've only used Campag Ergo levers, apart from a brief
dabble in the world of Modolo Morphos - erm, moving swiftly along....), but numerous magazine
reviews agree that subsequent refinements to the Campag design means that this isn't an issue
these days.

David E. Belcher
 
P

Pete Biggs

Guest
David E. Belcher wrote:
> "Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message news:<[email protected]
> berlin.de>...
>
>> Seriously, there aren't any straight answers to this one. Too many overlapping and complex
>> differences to make direct VFM comparisons. Both manufacturers produce some excellent stuff and
>> fans will argue (and I mean argue!) that their favourite is "smoother" or "more positive" or
>> "more durable". A lot of it this is actually BS.
>
> It was generally accepted that Campag had a "clunkier" gear change a few years ago, with STI being
> slicker (not really the man to comment, as I've only used Campag Ergo levers, apart from a brief
> dabble in the world of Modolo Morphos - erm, moving swiftly along....), but numerous magazine
> reviews agree that subsequent refinements to the Campag design means that this isn't an issue
> these days.

Actually I think it's fair to say STIs still have a lighter shifting action than Campag Ergos so
perhaps my "smooth" and "positive" comments above were too clumsy. I was also thinking about
comments made on braking and general feel and durability of the whole lot.

The advice I was trying to give is: take generalisations and casual reviews about one make being
better than the other with a pinch of salt (because people don't always have enough experience with
both and may not be understanding how setting up affects performance, etc) and research the real
details instead, and try and have a go on both.

~PB
 
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