Campagnolo & Shimano

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by dailuggs, Feb 13, 2004.

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  1. dailuggs

    dailuggs New Member

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    £ for £ which is better?

    looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £

    it appears as the groupsets to compare are:

    CAMPAGNOLO SHIMANO
    xenon sora
    mirage tiagra
    veloce 105


    please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight answer :)

    oh and if your not sure about comparing the groupsets just generally campagnolo or shimano

    cheers guys and gals
     
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  2. Mark

    Mark Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, usenet- [email protected] says...
    > £ for £ which is better?
    >
    > looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO
    > even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £
    >
    > it appears as the groupsets to compare are:
    >
    > CAMPAGNOLO SHIMANO xenon sora mirage tiagra veloce 105
    >
    >
    > please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight
    > answer :)
    >
    > oh and if your not sure about comparing the groupsets just generally campagnolo or shimano
    >
    > cheers guys and gals
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >

    Oh dear, here we go!

    I vote for Campag, no ugly STI cables coming from the hoods, and it's easy to buy individual
    components when things need fixing.

    I use 2003 10 speed Record on my race bike, and 2002 9 speed Veloce on my winter trainer.

    Do a Google on rec.bicyles.tech, this age old issue has been discussed many a time.

    I can guarantee you won't get a 'straight' answer though!

    --
    Mark (MSA) This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling of contents may
    have occurred during transmission
     
  3. dailuggs wrote:

    > £ for £ which is better?

    That's a bit like "which is better, Chinese or Indian food?". The technical differences are few, but
    some people prefer Campag Ergopower shifters because all the cables go under the handlebar tape.
    There's an old adage that Campag wears in while Shimano wears out, but I'm not sure how true this
    is. I have ancient (10 years+) Shimano mechs that still have no slop in them.

    Personally I like Shimano because the quality of engineering is very good for the price, but some
    people feel it lacks class somehow.
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    dailuggs wrote:
    > please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight
    > answer :)

    Seriously, there aren't any straight answers to this one. Too many overlapping and complex
    differences to make direct VFM comparisons. Both manufacturers produce some excellent stuff and fans
    will argue (and I mean argue!) that their favourite is "smoother" or "more positive" or "more
    durable". A lot of it this is actually BS.

    If you want combined brake & gear levers, I suggest choosing the make of the whole set by what make
    of levers you prefer. The rest of the kit will get on with its job but there are major differences
    in function and ergonomics between the two makes of this most important part. Have a go on both
    brands of levers if you're not sure, but bear in mind that Shimano STIs are generally not repairable
    as well as being more expensive than Campag Ergos (oh, and can't change up more than one gear at
    once). On the other hand, Ergos do need the springs changing every now and then which is a pain.

    I know a bit more about Campag so I'm happy to help with more detail later if you want to go that
    route. If not buying a complete bike, you don't have to buy a whole groupset. Better value can be
    had by mixing parts from more than one group if you can afford more than all-Xenon or Mirage.

    ~PB
     
  5. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > There's an old adage that Campag wears in while Shimano wears out, but I'm not sure how true this
    > is. I have ancient (10 years+) Shimano mechs that still have no slop in them.

    Yeah, I've got a 4 year old XT rear mech on my mtb that's taken far more abuse than any road mech
    ever would and a 12 years old set of XT rapidfire shifters on the bike I rode this afternoon. The
    Campag Athena indexed DT shifters on my last road bike gave up after 7 years.

    (now waiting for a peeing contest to develop of anecdotes about bike kit longevity ;-)
    --
    Regards, Pete
     
  6. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    dailuggs wrote:
    > £ for £ which is better?

    Who knows which is better ? I have only Shimano groupset parts (I have had Campag pedals and I have
    a campag seat pin) and have been very very pleased with them. Some items have lasted over 10 years
    and would have gone on for longer had I not got tired of the superficial scratches.

    I like Shimano for the across range and across the ages compatibility, for example my 1988 '105' six
    speed levers work perfectly with my 1988 six speed cassette and 2003 nine speed XT rear mech.

    Choosing a new bike I'd choose Shimano so I can swap parts around and I already have the
    toolset to do so.
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Guest

    I have Campag Record and am very pleased with it. Before that I had Shimano DuraAce which was good
    but not as good, in my opinion.

    Why I prefer Campag:

    1. Changing gear is so quick and smooth that I find I change gear more often and maintain a more
    consistent cadence
    2. It is possible to change gear under load eg. in the saddle up a steep hill. I couldn't do that
    using DuraAce
    3. As a prestige brand name you can't beat Campagnolo! I couldn't afford it when I was younger so
    it's nice to have it now (I know this isn't much of a reason)

    Hope that helps.

    dailuggs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > £ for £ which is better?
    >
    > looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO
    > even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £
    >
    > it appears as the groupsets to compare are:
    >
    > CAMPAGNOLO SHIMANO xenon sora mirage tiagra veloce 105
    >
    >
    > please no posts about it depends on the wheels you get yadda yadda, im just looking for a straight
    > answer :)
    >
    > oh and if your not sure about comparing the groupsets just generally campagnolo or shimano
    >
    > cheers guys and gals
    >
    >
    >
    > --
     
  8. Niv

    Niv Guest

    > looking at groupsets here nt forks or wheels or forke or nething else (if CAMPAGNOLO & SHIMANO
    > even do all the above), but with regards to the groupsets which is better £ for £
    >
    Here's my tuppence worth:

    Well, my "nice" road bike is Campag Record/Chorus mix (8 spd, from '96, spares getting hard, will
    upgrade soon to 9/10 spd Rec/Ch & carbon forks, else a nice new ti bike if lotto come up!), my
    winter hack is now 9 spd Veloce (was old 7 spd 105), and is really nice for hack.

    My MTB is Shimano (XT I think), just down from there top range stuff.

    I think this is the bast way, C for road, not horrid cables everywhere, but S for off road, as C are
    newish to offroad (I think).

    Niv.
     
  9. On 14/2/04 9:41 am, in article
    [email protected], "Niv"
    <niv*SPAMOFF*@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    > I think this is the bast way, C for road, not horrid cables everywhere, but S for off road, as C
    > are newish to offroad (I think).

    Campag did an off road groupset in the late eighties/early nineties. Can't remember what it was
    called but it never caught on.

    My ancient shimano uniglide 7spd (sante/ultegra) shifts quite well under load.

    When I get the new bike I'll be looking at a good road triple setup, so will be hopefully in
    the price range for shimano 105 (which is better than ultegra was 10 years ago) and the
    equivalent Campag.

    I kind of like the idea of a custom fillet brazed steel frame and campag bits. Black paint with
    reflective paint box lining would be pretty cool.

    ..d
     
  10. Niv

    Niv Guest

    > I kind of like the idea of a custom fillet brazed steel frame and campag bits. Black paint with
    > reflective paint box lining would be pretty cool.
    >

    That's basically what I got back in '96, from Chas Roberts. It's a beautifully done job, lovely
    smooth fillet brazing on Coumbus EL oversize tubing (although the oversize is marginal & not really
    noticed), and fits really well. I think the frame may be superceded by new technology now, but I
    wont go to an Al. frame because of the reported road buzz & overly stiff vertical compliance (or
    lack of compliance).

    Anyway, go for it, you'll love having a custom frame/bike.

    I can recommend Chas Roberts if you're anyway near the south (he's in Croydon), but a friend had a
    nice frame from O'Rourkes, (midlands somewhere).

    I'm thinking of an Omega ti frame, but off the bike for 3 weeks now & will be for another month or
    so before I can do do any real mileage; a seriously f****d shoulder after a skiing accident, damn.

    Niv.
     
  11. On 14/2/04 1:26 pm, in article
    [email protected], "Niv"
    <niv*SPAMOFF*@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    >
    >> I kind of like the idea of a custom fillet brazed steel frame and campag bits. Black paint with
    >> reflective paint box lining would be pretty cool.
    >>
    >
    > That's basically what I got back in '96, from Chas Roberts. It's a beautifully done job, lovely
    > smooth fillet brazing on Coumbus EL oversize tubing (although the oversize is marginal & not
    > really noticed), and fits really well. I think the frame may be superceded by new technology now,
    > but I wont go to an Al. frame because of the reported road buzz & overly stiff vertical compliance
    > (or lack of compliance).

    I'm not worried too much about the compliance, more the 90kgs ( hopefully about 10kg less by the
    time I get round to ordering it.) and the ability to get something to fit with the appropriate
    fittings (mudguards, racks, possibly dynamo mount).

    > Anyway, go for it, you'll love having a custom frame/bike.
    >
    > I can recommend Chas Roberts if you're anyway near the south (he's in Croydon), but a friend had a
    > nice frame from O'Rourkes, (midlands somewhere).

    He is near my parents. There are a load of good builders around. The main issue is getting something
    inside the budget.. I may have to compromise on the componentry to get under the magic cutoff.

    >
    > I'm thinking of an Omega ti frame, but off the bike for 3 weeks now & will be for another month or
    > so before I can do do any real mileage; a seriously f****d shoulder after a skiing accident, damn.

    Both my shoulders still ache after a few cross-country skiing accidents. (those aren't trees,
    they're brakes). Falling hard on ice is no fun.

    ..d

    >
    > Niv.
     
  12. Niv

    Niv Guest

    > Both my shoulders still ache after a few cross-country skiing accidents. (those aren't trees,
    > they're brakes). Falling hard on ice is no fun.
    >
    It was worse than that, arm bent behind me I think, causing a torn shoulder muscle; & it was the
    first day! Anyway, physio is talking 8 months full recovery, but mostly OK in 6 weeks or so.

    Niv.
     
  13. davebee

    davebee New Member

    Joined:
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    Back on topic....

    Do campag make off road parts?
     
  14. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    davebee wrote:
    > Back on topic....
    >
    > Do campag make off road parts?

    Not any more but they've dabbled in the past

    See: www.andysbikes.com/articles/campagMTB/index.html

    ~PB
     
  15. Pete Whelan

    Pete Whelan Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > davebee wrote:
    >
    >>Back on topic....
    >>
    >>Do campag make off road parts?
    >
    >
    > Not any more but they've dabbled in the past
    >
    > See: www.andysbikes.com/articles/campagMTB/index.html
    >
    > ~PB
    >
    >

    But you could still use current product OK for cyclo-cross (ergo levers and long arm rear
    mech, etc).

    --
    Pete

    interchange 12 for 21 to reply
     
  16. Pete Whelan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > But you could still use current product OK for cyclo-cross (ergo levers and long arm rear
    > mech, etc).

    As, indeed, I have done and still do; Ergopower is, to my mind, the better system for off-roading,
    since the cables are all concealed under the bar tape and thus less likely to snag on obstructions
    or when shouldering the bike. Don't recommend the use of a long-cage rear mech, though (unless you
    use a triple chainset, and then it's a must), as they seem to be better at collecting twigs and
    other foliage. A lot of the pros (Bart Wellens and Roger Hammond, to name two at random) seem to use
    Shimano stuff for 'cross, but then they're paid to and can't pick & choose!

    David E. Belcher
     
  17. "Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Seriously, there aren't any straight answers to this one. Too many overlapping and complex
    > differences to make direct VFM comparisons. Both manufacturers produce some excellent stuff and
    > fans will argue (and I mean argue!) that their favourite is "smoother" or "more positive" or "more
    > durable". A lot of it this is actually BS.

    It was generally accepted that Campag had a "clunkier" gear change a few years ago, with STI being
    slicker (not really the man to comment, as I've only used Campag Ergo levers, apart from a brief
    dabble in the world of Modolo Morphos - erm, moving swiftly along....), but numerous magazine
    reviews agree that subsequent refinements to the Campag design means that this isn't an issue
    these days.

    David E. Belcher
     
  18. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    David E. Belcher wrote:
    > "Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message news:<[email protected]931.news.uni-
    > berlin.de>...
    >
    >> Seriously, there aren't any straight answers to this one. Too many overlapping and complex
    >> differences to make direct VFM comparisons. Both manufacturers produce some excellent stuff and
    >> fans will argue (and I mean argue!) that their favourite is "smoother" or "more positive" or
    >> "more durable". A lot of it this is actually BS.
    >
    > It was generally accepted that Campag had a "clunkier" gear change a few years ago, with STI being
    > slicker (not really the man to comment, as I've only used Campag Ergo levers, apart from a brief
    > dabble in the world of Modolo Morphos - erm, moving swiftly along....), but numerous magazine
    > reviews agree that subsequent refinements to the Campag design means that this isn't an issue
    > these days.

    Actually I think it's fair to say STIs still have a lighter shifting action than Campag Ergos so
    perhaps my "smooth" and "positive" comments above were too clumsy. I was also thinking about
    comments made on braking and general feel and durability of the whole lot.

    The advice I was trying to give is: take generalisations and casual reviews about one make being
    better than the other with a pinch of salt (because people don't always have enough experience with
    both and may not be understanding how setting up affects performance, etc) and research the real
    details instead, and try and have a go on both.

    ~PB
     
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