Campagnolo vs ShimaNO
- Thread starter king_matt87
- Start date
I just hope all you traditionalists admiring the look and shine of your Italian bikes with their Italian group sets are not using a computer of any sort on your bikes if you ever find time to ride them.
If you look closely they are made in Taiwan, China or heaven help you - Japan!
And don't forget to calibrate them in kilometres.
If you look closely they are made in Taiwan, China or heaven help you - Japan!
And don't forget to calibrate them in kilometres.
mitosis said:I just hope all you traditionalists admiring the look and shine of your Italian bikes with their Italian group sets are not using a computer of any sort on your bikes if you ever find time to ride them.
If you look closely they are made in Taiwan, China or heaven help you - Japan!
And don't forget to calibrate them in kilometres.
How does this flow into computers? Traditionally ASIA is known for electronics and cheap labor, so I would obviously go there for that duh!
Has anyone tried both campy record vs. shimano DA track cranks? I ride the DA splined ones and they seem to be quite a bit stiffer than the square taper DA. I haven't tried campy but they look cool. Being a heavier rider I wonder if there is a difference in "performance".
As far as the flame war goes: I dunno, it's prolly healthier to have both around(even though Campy is perdier). Good competition seems to help the end result. OT: It is kinda funny though how the Italians came up with a marginally better group while the Japanese produce a far superior lugged steel frame.....at least they used to.
As far as the flame war goes: I dunno, it's prolly healthier to have both around(even though Campy is perdier). Good competition seems to help the end result. OT: It is kinda funny though how the Italians came up with a marginally better group while the Japanese produce a far superior lugged steel frame.....at least they used to.
i agree with all who have rightly pointed out that neither DA or Record could be cr@p else one or the other would not be around. however, having in the last year built bikes with DA and Record, and ridden both, I feel there are several reasons why Shimano is clearly ahead techically:
1) S are 2 iterations ahead of C in the technology used to attach the chainset to the BB, namely Octalink & Hollowtech. The result is now a measurably stiffer connection than C, as detailed in this
http://www.duraace.com/publish/cont...entPar.0017.File.tmp/VN-crank-results-web.pdf
As stated above, C use carbon for cosmetics, not stiffness. Meantime S recognise that carbon is used in eg the rear triangle of bikes to promote stiffness which translates into superior power transfer, and thus concentrate on building stiff cranks.
Besides this you need a simple allen key to fit/refit a DA chainset, no crank extractors, etc.
2) S shifters are ergonomically better than C, in terms of hand comfort and especially for changing to smaller rings, plus the shifting itself is significantly lighter. The cables are on show because this makes for lighter shifting, it would be a simple development to route them, but S chose not to do this.
3) S brakes are more powerful, C brakes are clearly a more basic design of the kind S tend to use on the lower end groups.
The issue of where to put the quick release for the brakes is resolved when you try to use a different set of brake levers - eg for a time trial bike. C users are left with no quick release. And the S design allows for phased release - with C its all or nothing only.
4) Ever tried to retrospectively fit an ergobrain? Requires complete removal of hoods from the bars and all the work that goes with it. S requires peeling back the rubber and removing a plastic blank with 3 screws.
5) As to repairability and durability, it is a fact of life that things engineered with tighter tolerances tend to wear out sooner. This cannot be considered a defect, just a matter of choice by the user. The most expensive tyres will wear out the fastest due to choice of compound, this does not make them inferior unless your main evauation criteria is longevity.
To the defense of C, because i am trying to be objective, yes they do offer a better range of headsets. Unsure why S havent addressed this. And of course they are miles ahead in the wheel market.
1) S are 2 iterations ahead of C in the technology used to attach the chainset to the BB, namely Octalink & Hollowtech. The result is now a measurably stiffer connection than C, as detailed in this
http://www.duraace.com/publish/cont...entPar.0017.File.tmp/VN-crank-results-web.pdf
As stated above, C use carbon for cosmetics, not stiffness. Meantime S recognise that carbon is used in eg the rear triangle of bikes to promote stiffness which translates into superior power transfer, and thus concentrate on building stiff cranks.
Besides this you need a simple allen key to fit/refit a DA chainset, no crank extractors, etc.
2) S shifters are ergonomically better than C, in terms of hand comfort and especially for changing to smaller rings, plus the shifting itself is significantly lighter. The cables are on show because this makes for lighter shifting, it would be a simple development to route them, but S chose not to do this.
3) S brakes are more powerful, C brakes are clearly a more basic design of the kind S tend to use on the lower end groups.
The issue of where to put the quick release for the brakes is resolved when you try to use a different set of brake levers - eg for a time trial bike. C users are left with no quick release. And the S design allows for phased release - with C its all or nothing only.
4) Ever tried to retrospectively fit an ergobrain? Requires complete removal of hoods from the bars and all the work that goes with it. S requires peeling back the rubber and removing a plastic blank with 3 screws.
5) As to repairability and durability, it is a fact of life that things engineered with tighter tolerances tend to wear out sooner. This cannot be considered a defect, just a matter of choice by the user. The most expensive tyres will wear out the fastest due to choice of compound, this does not make them inferior unless your main evauation criteria is longevity.
To the defense of C, because i am trying to be objective, yes they do offer a better range of headsets. Unsure why S havent addressed this. And of course they are miles ahead in the wheel market.
And for an end user like me who is not concerned with all the things you have just mentioned. Namely because both work equally well despite the factors you mentioned. Stiffness cannot be felt and should not even be considered. (Petacchi uses C). Campy is the Mercedes Benz and the Shimano is the not too shabby Acura but PLEASE! stop comparing them. The only people that love Shimano more than Campy are those who have never used Campy.robkit said:
Why would you choose the Fishing Rod over the Italian Stallion!
Looks like we're sprinting yet to another redundant argument.996vtwin said:
Everyone's a mechanic spewing alot of specs and technobabble they picked up off the net or just useless information or compaints from local riders.
I ride Shimano DA and Campagnolo Record regularly. I've been riding both since 1980 when shifting was more of an art. I've always regarded Shimano as disposable and still do.
Here's a reality check for the 'manoGeeks, 'campyPhiles, and Sunday riders... Don't read every spec manufaturers post as the bible, most of it is written by the marketting dept and ussually displayed with pictures of someone that won a stage or race using their components to validate their claims. Any intelligent human can figure out that the rider is the one that pushed their **** past the finish line, he/she could have very well pushed any other NON-POPULAR component just as well.
In conclusion,
Yes, shifting is lighter on the DA than Record.
1. Will I win a race with it alone? NO.
2. Will I even finish a stage? NO.
3. Do i need to shut the hell up and train? YES!
Most of you have been star-struck by Lance or whoever else is your damn idol. STOP, be your own idol and challenge yourself. This argument is endless stupidity that's been around since i can remember in the '70s.
Now CATCH ME!
... If you can ..... OH NO! you shifted to the wrong gear uphill!!! Must be because you spend too much time in the forums, I'll see you later! 
yes yes, don't forget Bridgestone, Nagasawa, Kalavinka, Panasonic and (drum roll)...Miyata.
the really sweet Ishiwata was actually quad butted but was bested by Miyata's spline triple.
random facts that vaguely gives this thread cohesion:
1)NASA has used and bought patent rights for tubing specifications from Japanese bicycle companies for use on the space shuttle.
2) 1 in 3 satelites currently circling our planet are being held in place by gyroscopes whose bearings come from Italy.
I had a point but I like totally forget what it was.
the really sweet Ishiwata was actually quad butted but was bested by Miyata's spline triple.
random facts that vaguely gives this thread cohesion:
1)NASA has used and bought patent rights for tubing specifications from Japanese bicycle companies for use on the space shuttle.
2) 1 in 3 satelites currently circling our planet are being held in place by gyroscopes whose bearings come from Italy.
I had a point but I like totally forget what it was.
lyotard said:
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