Campagnolo vs ShimaNO

[Beastt]

Let's try some more (arbitrary) numbers to try to make you see how stupid you sound. If the flex in a DA crank is 1 micrometer and a 105 crank is 100% flexier, it still only flexes 2 micrometers. Yet you honestly believe you can feel that 1 micron difference in your legs - a distance that the human eye cannot differentiate. Check out a neuroanatomy textbook. Look how big the parts of the brain for sight are and compare this to the sensory areas for the lower limbs.

Alternatively, draw a spot on your left leg. Now close your eyes and try to put your right big toe on the spot. Try again and see if you can come within one micron of your previous attempt - yes I know this is impossible because you can't even measure that distance without big magnification - yet Beastt can feel it. Wow - are you sure you are not the Six Million Dollar Man?

I have asked engineers and metallurgists and they can tell me about the "miniscule" distances that you have alluded to, however, they knew nothing about neurophysiology. Get your hand off it!

It's okay for you to admit that you like your DA gear because it gives you a psychological bonus but to say you can feel the difference in flex just makes you look like a ******.

You just have absolutely no clue. We're not talking about feeling the leg move a micrometer. Do you really even ride a bike? We're talking about two different kinds of flex here. One is flex you feel and the other is flex that you perceive because it does indeed subtract from the energy exerted in moving the crank. As we've talked about before, cranks can and do break and they do so from the repeated energy fed into them by the cyclist. That energy isn't free. It was intended to move the back wheel around but obviously it didn't. Instead it caused tiny changes in the alignment of the metal grains which eventually lead to failure. Does a crank arm break if no one ever applies pressure to it? The answer is an obvious "no". If we can agree on that then we've determined that the forces fed into that crank arm are responsible for the structural failure. Can you feel a slight breeze working against you when you ride? How much force do you suppose is required to counter the affects of that slight breeze? The fact that you can feel the difference doesn't make you hyper-sensitive. It simply makes you aware of the extra energy required. You seem to think that because you can't see the flexing of the crank as it moves around that it isn't flexing. As I suggested before, lock it into a stationary position and then exert force against it. Short of that, take a good solid wrench, lock it onto a welded nut and press against it with your foot. See the flex?

Perhaps you should talk to some runners about the difference between running on packed soil, asphalt and concrete. There is a very definite difference in shock and trauma felt by the body. The difference in the amount of cushion provided by the three different surfaces seem miniscule to the point of being completely negligible. But if you talk to runners who have run on all three, you find that the cummulative affect is definitely felt. But the point is moot for you because anything that proves you wrong is simply something you're going to deny.

By the way, I never said I could feel the difference in the DA verses any other road gear. I was very specific about the equipment I referred to but obviously, you were too busy trying to find ways to toss insults to actually read what I wrote.

 

[mitosis]

I'm glad there are a few here with little or no understanding about the structural dynamics of materials, who, despite their lack of knowledge or even common sense, seem to think that they're up on all of the engineers and metallurgists who have spent much of their lives studying the subject. This is just one of those subjects where those who can't, don't and won't understand continue to insist that their back-woods opinions are more valid than what scientists, engineers and designers all know.QUOTE]

I give up. You win. You've just demonstrated all the above attributes yourself. Can't say I didn't try.

 

[Beastt]

I give up. You win. You've just demonstrated all the above attributes yourself. Can't say I didn't try.

I suppose there's more truth to that than I like to admit.

 

[patch70]

As we've talked about before, cranks can and do break

You just keep living in fear of iminent crank breakage and the rest of us will be reassured by the fact that crank breakage is incredibly rare.

You must be incredibly unlucky to break so many cranks in your lifetime?

I can feel the difference in flex of the LX crank arms verses those of XT crank arms

You can also keep on believing that you can feel crank flex as you think about what the Easter bunny will bring you next year.

 

[Beastt]

You just keep living in fear of iminent crank breakage and the rest of us will be reassured by the fact that crank breakage is incredibly rare.

You must be incredibly unlucky to break so many cranks in your lifetime?



You can also keep on believing that you can feel crank flex as you think about what the Easter bunny will bring you next year.

This is just getting silly. Please show me where I ever claimed to have broken a crank. If you can't understand the mechanism that leads to the failure of a crankarm, then that's your misfortune. You usually show well above average intelligence in your debates. Perhaps this just isn't your area of expertise.

 

[gavin11756]

What I don't understand is why do people usually claim one is great and the other junk. Why can't they both be good and you just prefer one over the other or your opinion is one is a little better than the other. Since both companies are competing heavily with each other I would doubt that both would still be around if one was that much better than the other. I hate it when people claim something is **** just because it isn't thier preference. I would think anyone who has higher-end Campy or Shimano has a damn good bike even if it isn't someone elses preference. Would I take Campy Record over Shimano Dura-Ace? Yes, but that is just my opinion. Do I think Shimano is junk compared to Campy? No, I think Shimano is fine. Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.

Yes, I think you're right, however, I will always go for Campy as it is a traditional brand with history behind it. Not a practical reason I admit, but important nonetheless for traditionalists

regards

Gavin

 

[gruppo]

as u may have noticed there are a few typo's above but any way 1 big 1 "and now have to buy da whole lever" were it should be and NOT and again "Ok yer shimano would be able to make there stuff if it was no good " wouldn't be able" any way as i said above can we close this forum just because of what size it ahs grown to with no real message behind it at all!

Yes!

Thank you.

 

[Matt N]

Have you ever noticed that in almost all cases people who ride Shi1maNo do so because they have to (budget, sponsorship) or because they are ignorant or have no class. Whereas in almost all cases people who ride Campagnolo do so through choice?

I realize this rule does not universally apply, so sorry if I offend - but think about it and you will see that it holds in most cases.

Cheers

 

[gavin11756]

Yes Matt. I will always go for "campy" for the tradition! Again I will point out that's not a practical reason, but it suits me

 

[beewee]

You really don't know anything. Really you don't!

ok
well now shimaNO is 10 speed but is still all sealed up and can not be fixed. now with new cranks design. the over all look of ShimaNO is a bit......................eeeeewww. so when your levers wear out the is a big cost to replace not repair. ad how good are ShimaNO levers if Armstrong uses a s


tandard front gear lever. i found that the front lever is a bit rougth on the down chage. also Come on shimaNO get with it CARBON FIBRE is the way! the bike they put it on is full carbon TREK so.........also the bug intena gear cables ad a bit dagy. For u now belevers(shimaNO users) on the full campagnolo range u release the breaks with a button on the bars, this means if u feget to click ur break back on it's a simply a push of a button. another good thing is that u ahve control of the realse so so one can't ride up to during a race and flick ur breaks. campagnolo make 6 different head sets shimaNI only make the old 1' threaded one, which was good for me because i needed a low profile one for me old track frame. but for new bike no good. most new bike haev ever cane creek or Campagnolo hidden head set.

 

[gavin11756]

You really don't know anything. Really you don't!

Perhaps you could eleborate please

 

[bluboy4_us]

You just have absolutely no clue. We're not talking about feeling the leg move a micrometer. Do you really even ride a bike? We're talking about two different kinds of flex here. One is flex you feel and the other is flex that you perceive because it does indeed subtract from the energy exerted in moving the crank. As we've talked about before, cranks can and do break and they do so from the repeated energy fed into them by the cyclist. That energy isn't free. It was intended to move the back wheel around but obviously it didn't. Instead it caused tiny changes in the alignment of the metal grains which eventually lead to failure. Does a crank arm break if no one ever applies pressure to it? The answer is an obvious "no". If we can agree on that then we've determined that the forces fed into that crank arm are responsible for the structural failure. Can you feel a slight breeze working against you when you ride? How much force do you suppose is required to counter the affects of that slight breeze? The fact that you can feel the difference doesn't make you hyper-sensitive. It simply makes you aware of the extra energy required. You seem to think that because you can't see the flexing of the crank as it moves around that it isn't flexing. As I suggested before, lock it into a stationary position and then exert force against it. Short of that, take a good solid wrench, lock it onto a welded nut and press against it with your foot. See the flex?

Perhaps you should talk to some runners about the difference between running on packed soil, asphalt and concrete. There is a very definite difference in shock and trauma felt by the body. The difference in the amount of cushion provided by the three different surfaces seem miniscule to the point of being completely negligible. But if you talk to runners who have run on all three, you find that the cummulative affect is definitely felt. But the point is moot for you because anything that proves you wrong is simply something you're going to deny.

By the way, I never said I could feel the difference in the DA verses any other road gear. I was very specific about the equipment I referred to but obviously, you were too busy trying to find ways to toss insults to actually read what I wrote.

I have worked as a machinist and as a quality control tech for a deisel fuel-injection manufacturer and both of your posts leave me with one question that I feel must be posed- Is the unit of measurement you're discussing "1/1000 or a micron? The reason I ask is because 25.4 microns= "1/1000. A healthy human hair averages "3/1000 or 76.2 microns. Either way, we are talking about a very small unit of measurement here. The amount of flex discussed would have to be from an inarguably stiff crank regardless of the unit of measurement whether it is one-thousandth of an inch or one-thousandth of a millimeter (micron). As far as the stresses on the human body, much larger measurements are the result. Currently, I'm a psychology major with a 3.5 GPA and I would have to believe that the amount of flex you feel would have to be perceived and quite possibly not noticed by someone else.

 

[bluboy4_us]

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well what can i say.
i was campy and i now i use the new 10 speed shimano and the cranks are so much stiffer and the drivetrain is so much smoother then campy.
but hey if shimano is so bad why has it win the last 5 tours??

Has anyone noticed how Lances bike is equipped? All you have to do is is go into any TREK dealer and you'll see his bike because he rides them straight off the shelf. The absence of a left STI lever makes the bike lighter plus you can't trim the front derailleur with STI. Also, if you'll look closer, NONE OF THE BEARINGS OR WHEELS ARE SHIMANO BECAUSE THEY DON'T MEASURE UP. Also, Lance has a sponsorship and a mechanic with lots of spare parts (And they will probably be needed). More stage races are still won with Campy equipped bikes- that includes CAmpy hubs and bottom brackets. Campy-compatible substitutions are not needed as they obviously are with shitmaNO.

 

[donhix1]

Have you ever noticed that in almost all cases people who ride Shi1maNo do so because they have to (budget, sponsorship) or because they are ignorant or have no class. Whereas in almost all cases people who ride Campagnolo do so through choice?

I realize this rule does not universally apply, so sorry if I offend - but think about it and you will see that it holds in most cases.

Cheers

I detect a bit of snobery here
I have an Ultegra bike and a Campy Centaur bike. I chose Campy for my Italian bike and Ultegra for the other. Here are my findings.

Ultegra needs less adjustments (maybe becuse it is a 9 speed)

I prefer the campy shifters being able to shift up several gears at once and it is easier to shift with my hands on the hoods.

When they are adjusted both shifters shift without missing a beat. I had some of the earlier index system and these 9 and 10 speeds shift so much easier and quicker than the old 7 speeds.

I admit I chose Campy because of the snob factor but I really cannot say that in the midrange products that Shimano or Campy can say to have an advantage.

 

[guidebar]

I have Campagnolo on my bike and I find it shifts a lot tighter than Shimano but it all comes down to preference.I have never missed a shift with my Veloce 10 speed, but with Shimano I had a lot of shifting problems.

 

[tcklyde]

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Has anyone noticed how Lances bike is equipped? All you have to do is is go into any TREK dealer and you'll see his bike because he rides them straight off the shelf. The absence of a left STI lever makes the bike lighter plus you can't trim the front derailleur with STI. Also, if you'll look closer, NONE OF THE BEARINGS OR WHEELS ARE SHIMANO BECAUSE THEY DON'T MEASURE UP. Also, Lance has a sponsorship and a mechanic with lots of spare parts (And they will probably be needed). More stage races are still won with Campy equipped bikes- that includes CAmpy hubs and bottom brackets. Campy-compatible substitutions are not needed as they obviously are with shitmaNO.

Yeah, Shimano makes pretty crappy wheels -- at least when they were in the paired spoke obsession; in fairness, I haven't ridden the 7800s. But give me a freakin' break. Riders aren't winning stage just b/c they ride campy components. The top five in the GC at the Tour all rode Shimano. Does that mean that Shimano is better than Campy? No. Does it mean that Shimano works? Yes.

 

[donhix1]

Have you seen the new Ultegra with the integrated bottom bracket and 10 speeds
I like the looks of those smooth cranks.

 

[TTyed]

Yeah, Shimano makes pretty crappy wheels -- at least when they were in the paired spoke obsession; in fairness, I haven't ridden the 7800s. But give me a freakin' break. Riders aren't winning stage just b/c they ride campy components. The top five in the GC at the Tour all rode Shimano. Does that mean that Shimano is better than Campy? No. Does it mean that Shimano works? Yes.

The 7800's are not bad as far as clinchers go. As far as Campy or Shimano, does it really matter? It's all in your training or lack of. The rest is how high you want to stick your nose up in the air.

 

[Claud Butter]

Campagonolo vs shimano? Where I live they earn the nicknames shitmano and champagonolo.

 

[TTyed]

If name calling is where your head is at, well so be it. You obviously missed the point of the whole message. Enjoy your champagnolo. I'll still wait up for you after the next climb even though I may be using shitmano.

Campagonolo vs shimano? Where I live they earn the nicknames shitmano and champagonolo.