Camping Stove

[Richard Bates]

[Probably more useful to post to uk.rec.camping or some such
group but I don't lurk there so don't want to post]

I've been thinking about my two stoves recently and how
environmentally unfriendly they could be.

Stove 1 runs from a disposable butane/propane cylinder. Gas
is /relatively/ clean but I have a problem with empty gas
cyclinders. Can they be recycled safely? Or even (although
designed to be disposable) can they be refilled in a
similar manner to it's larger brothers (too large for
carrying on a bike).

If when the cyclinder becomes useless for cooking, the valve
is left open for pressures to equilibrate, can it then be
assumed to be safe for recycling?

Stove 2 runs from either unleaded petrol or coleman fuel.
Unleaded petrol is not good for the environment, and coleman
fuel which claims to be "clean" also leaves me with a metal
container to dispose of.

Which is the lesser of the two evils? Or is there a better
alternative (short of an open fire made of salvaged wood).?

Love and flames from Rich x

--
Young Musician of the Year 2004 was a fiddle

 

[Just Zis Guy]

Richard Bates wrote:

> Which is the lesser of the two evils? Or is there a
> better alternative (short of an open fire made of
> salvaged wood).?

Gas is probably the better of the two, but I use a Trangia
which burns alcohol (meths).

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

 

[Peter Clinch]

Richard Bates wrote:

> Stove 1 runs from a disposable butane/propane cylinder.
> Gas is /relatively/ clean but I have a problem with empty
> gas cyclinders. Can they be recycled safely? Or even
> (although designed to be disposable) can they be refilled
> in a similar manner to it's larger brothers (too large for
> carrying on a bike).

They can't be refilled AFAIK, or at least not under simple
domestic circumstances. Recycling may well be possible
through certain channels: MEC take back cartridges for
recycling, for example, which is handy if you're near a MEC
store (but since they're all in Canada, you're probably
not...), I think Camping Gaz take back certain cartridges
and so on. As to whether anything else is possible, probably
speak to your local council's relevant department.

> Stove 2 runs from either unleaded petrol or coleman fuel.
> Unleaded petrol is not good for the environment, and
> coleman fuel which claims to be "clean" also leaves me
> with a metal container to dispose of.

Coleman fuel is pretty clean as it has none of the additives
designed for modern internal combustion engines. The metal
container can go straight in the metal skip at the local
dump though. My main problem with Coleman fuel is it's an
insane price in the UK, plus there's the great joys of
priming a small turbojet.

> Which is the lesser of the two evils? Or is there a
> better alternative (short of an open fire made of
> salvaged wood).?

Trangias will burn on alcohol, so no fossil fuel depletion
and no metal containers, but there will be plastic ones.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Ambrose Nankive]

In news:[email protected],
Richard Bates <[email protected]> typed:
> [Probably more useful to post to uk.rec.camping or some
> such group but I don't lurk there so don't want to post]
>
> Stove 2 runs from either unleaded petrol or coleman fuel.
> Unleaded petrol is not good for the environment, and
> coleman fuel which claims to be "clean" also leaves me
> with a metal container to dispose of.
>
What's so bad about unleaded petrol? And even if it is bad,
does your using at most 5 litres of it on a few weeks
camping amount to a hill of beans when there's so much else
being used in the world?

A

 

[Ian G Batten]

In article <[email protected]>,
Ambrose Nankivell <[email protected]> wrote:
> What's so bad about unleaded petrol?

Benzene. My MSR Whisperlite predates the versions that
officially burn unleaded, but actually does. I avoid it like
the plague, using either Coleman fuel or French ``Essence
C'', because exposure to Benzene is not wise.

> And even if it is bad, does your using at most 5 litres of
> it on a few weeks camping amount to a hill of beans when
> there's so much else being used in the world?

My worry is about using the stove at close quarters. Benzene
is nasty stuff.

ian

 

[Peter Clinch]

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

> What's so bad about unleaded petrol? And even if it is
> bad, does your using at most 5 liters of it on a few weeks
> camping amount to a hill of beans when there's so much
> else being used in the world?

Moving from politics into practical considerations, unleaded
petrol has lots of additives that are put in to make current
internal combustion engines work optimally. All very well in
an internal combustion engine, but in a camping stove they
just tend to leave **** which accelerates the maintenance
schedule considerably. Camping stoves simply don't work as
well on unleaded as they do on Coleman fuel.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

John Hearns wrote:

> See the Aldi Stuff thread. We already have Peter Clinch
> carrying plastic bottles of tonic. Fuel it off gin and
> we'll have some nice G+Ts at the end of the day.

On a bothy weekend once someone showed up with a bottle
claiming to contain Welsh Whisky. It may have been that, but
one thing it wasn't was nice to drink, so we ended up
running the Trangia off it, not particularly efficiently but
it did work. You could run one off Bombay Sapphire, I'm
sure, but it would be a terrible waste...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Robert Bruce]

mae <[email protected]> wedi ysgrifennu:
> On a bothy weekend once someone showed up with a bottle
> claiming to contain Welsh Whisky. It may have been that,
> but one thing it wasn't was nice to drink, so we ended up
> running the Trangia off it, not particularly efficiently
> but it did work. You could run one off Bombay Sapphire,
> I'm sure, but it would be a terrible waste...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3398831.stm

<abstract> Lovers of malt whisky will soon be able to look
outside Scotland for a bottle of their favourite wee dram.
On St David's Day, 1 March, the first whisky to be distilled
in Wales for more than 100 years will go on sale. </abstact>

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may
contribute and benefit.

 

[Roos Eisma]

Richard Bates <[email protected]> writes:

>Stove 2 runs from either unleaded petrol or coleman fuel.
>Unleaded petrol is not good for the environment, and
>coleman fuel which claims to be "clean" also leaves me with
>a metal container to dispose of.

Coleman fuel in the Netherlands comes in a plastic bottle.
Which then has to be disposed off...

Roos

 

[Peter Clinch]

Robert Bruce wrote:

> <abstract> Lovers of malt whisky will soon be able to look
> outside Scotland for a bottle of their favourite wee dram.
> On St David's Day, 1 March, the first whisky to be
> distilled in Wales for more than 100 years will go on
> sale. </abstact>

The stuff I'd come across was distilled in Scotland but then
had various Secret Recipe stuff done to it in Wales in order
to render it even more ghastly than Shyte & Mackay, if you
can imagine such a thing...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Simonb]

Robert Bruce wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3398831.stm

It just doesn't have the same appeal.

As an aside, if you click the 'Low Graphics Version' link on
a BBC news page, it takes you to the low-graphics news
index, not the low-graphics version of the story. If you
then search in news from the low-graphics index, it takes
you to the high-graphics results page, where links go to high-
graphics stories. It's therefore impossible to find any
story in low-graphics mode which isn't linked to the low-
graphics news index (ie, recent news only).

Unless you know to replace 'hi' with 'low' in the URL, of
course. But why doesn't the BBC just insert that into the
'Low Graphics Version' link and point to the mirrored page?

Has anyone noticed this? Coz I have. Perhaps I should just
write to Beeb.

--
Witty signature.

 

[Marc]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3398831.stm
>
> <abstract> Lovers of malt whisky will soon be able to look
> outside Scotland for a bottle of their favourite wee dram.
> On St David's Day, 1 March, the first whisky to be
> distilled in Wales for more than 100 years will go on
> sale. </abstact>
>
I'm dubious of that claim, there was until a few years ago a
distillery in Brecon, just up the road from where this "new
" one is now.

 

[Robert Bruce]

mae <marccdimspamremovedimspamto [email protected]> wedi
ysgrifennu:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3398831.stm
>>
>> <abstract> Lovers of malt whisky will soon be able to
>> look outside Scotland for a bottle of their favourite wee
>> dram. On St David's Day, 1 March, the first whisky to be
>> distilled in Wales for more than 100 years will go on
>> sale. </abstact>
>>
> I'm dubious of that claim, there was until a few years ago
> a distillery in Brecon, just up the road from where this
> "new " one is now.

From http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=122002004

"The Welsh have had a chequered past when it comes to whisky
production. Five years ago the Scotch Whisky Association
prevented a Brecon firm from naming its drink Welsh Chwisgi
(whisky), claiming it was not a whisky and cashed in on the
reputation of Scotch and Irish whiskey. "

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may
contribute and benefit.

 

[Congokid]

In message <[email protected]
berlin.de>, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email protected]> writes
>Richard Bates wrote:
>
>> Which is the lesser of the two evils? Or is there a
>> better alternative (short of an open fire made of
>> salvaged wood).?
>
>Gas is probably the better of the two, but I use a Trangia
>which burns alcohol (meths).

I was about to suggest he bought my old one...

--
congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
http://congokid.com

 

[David Nutter]

In article <[email protected]>, Richard Bates wrote:

> Which is the lesser of the two evils? Or is there a
> better alternative (short of an open fire made of
> salvaged wood).?

My first thoughts would be a Trangia or hexy-block stove, if
you don't mind black pots and hands.

If you're flush an MSR stove run on kerosene[1] bought from
a hardware store that will refill a can for you rather than
sell you a five litre bottle is probably your best bet.

Regards,

-david

[1] If you can get it, jet fuel (JetA) is the Best Fuel
Eva(TM) for optimus-type stove.

 

[Mark South]

"Richard Bates" <[email protected]> wrote an interesting question (as
usual) in message news:[email protected]...
> [Probably more useful to post to uk.rec.camping or some
> such group but I don't lurk there so don't want to post]

And thet group is mostly dying. Very slowly.

> I've been thinking about my two stoves recently and how
> environmentally unfriendly they could be.

Hmm.

> Stove 1 runs from a disposable butane/propane cylinder.
> Gas is /relatively/ clean but I have a problem with empty
> gas cyclinders. Can they be recycled safely? Or even
> (although designed to be disposable) can they be refilled
> in a similar manner to it's larger brothers (too large for
> carrying on a bike).

Refiled, no, unless you want to fill them with water and
scam some innocents (not recommended).

Recycle, yes, they are pretty much pure steel.

> If when the cyclinder becomes useless for cooking, the
> valve is left open for pressures to equilibrate, can it
> then be assumed to be safe for recycling?

That's the idea. Although I would not want to be the one to
throw it in the melting pot.

> Stove 2 runs from either unleaded petrol or coleman fuel.
> Unleaded petrol is not good for the environment, and
> coleman fuel which claims to be "clean" also leaves me
> with a metal container to dispose of.

The fule may be clean but the production makes an
impressive mess.

> Which is the lesser of the two evils? Or is there a
> better alternative (short of an open fire made of
> salvaged wood).?

For someone who likes to tweak things (and who amongst us
here in URC does not?) I recommend a read of
http://www.backpacking.net/makegear.html

Happy tinsnipping,
--
Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
Ce poulet a une grenade!

 

[Chris Malcolm]

Ian G Batten <[email protected]> writes:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Ambrose Nankivell
><[email protected]> wrote:

>> What's so bad about unleaded petrol?

>Benzene. My MSR Whisperlite predates the versions that
>officially burn unleaded, but actually does. I avoid it
>like the plague, using either Coleman fuel or French
>``Essence C'', because exposure to Benzene is not wise.

What's wrong with kerosene, aka paraffin? Very cheap and
available as a "fill up your own container" which avoids the
disposable container problem.

Incidentally nobody has mentioned another advantage of
liquid fuel stoves. If something goes wrong with the stove,
you've still got a container of combustible liquid, which is
rather more useful for making other kinds of fire than a
canister of compressed gas.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

 

[Ambrose Nankive]

In news:[email protected],
Chris Malcolm <[email protected]> typed:
> Incidentally nobody has mentioned another advantage of
> liquid fuel stoves. If something goes wrong with the
> stove, you've still got a container of combustible liquid,
> which is rather more useful for making other kinds of fire
> than a canister of compressed gas.

Depends how quickly you want to cook the food

Maybe you could disperse the gas in some moss or something,
in an emergency.

A