Campy 8 speed to 9 speed?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Peter D, Jan 26, 2004.

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  1. Peter D

    Peter D Guest

    Hi,

    I got hit by a car last week and the bike is wrecked and I was very lucky with minor injuries so not
    complaining too much!!

    My Campy Record 8 speed levers (1996 vintage) have been smashed as well as a CAAD4 frame.

    Insurance forces me to go through the LBS and he is sourcing 9 speed levers. I can either let him
    downgrade them to 8 speed to work with my current drivetrain which is intact or upgrade to 9 speed
    at my expense.

    Can anyone confirm that all the parts I need in addition to the levers are a freehub body, cassette
    and chain?? Present derailleurs and chainrings should be fine??

    Many Thanks Pete
     
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  2. Peter D wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I got hit by a car last week and the bike is wrecked and I was very lucky with minor injuries so
    > not complaining too much!!
    >
    > My Campy Record 8 speed levers (1996 vintage) have been smashed as well as a CAAD4 frame.
    >
    > Insurance forces me to go through the LBS and he is sourcing 9 speed levers. I can either let him
    > downgrade them to 8 speed to work with my current drivetrain which is intact or upgrade to 9 speed
    > at my expense.

    Why should it be at your expense? Insurance should make your bike right, you should insist.
    >
    > Can anyone confirm that all the parts I need in addition to the levers are a freehub body,
    > cassette and chain?? Present derailleurs and chainrings should be fine??

    That's correct. Unfortunately, conversion bodies to fit 8-speed hubs don't seem to be obtainable,
    since Campagnolo did a major (and much needed) upgrade to their hub design.

    As a result, you'll probably need a new rear wheel as well, but if it was somebody else's fault,
    their insurance should pay for it. If you don't have medical expenses, they're getting off cheap!

    See: http://www.massbikeboston.org/resources/crash.htm

    Sheldon "Know Your Rights" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
    | How harmful overspecialization is. | It cuts knowledge at a million points and leaves it
    | bleeding. | --Isaac Asimov |
    +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  3. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    It is possible to use 9-speed sprockets on an 8-speed hub by grinding the sprocket spline tabs to
    shorten them. Nine sprockets can just about fit if lockring is done up tight and frame clearance
    allows (this is what I do). Otherwise just use eight.

    Alternatively, an 8-speed cassette can be perfectly respaced by using Shimano IG 7sp 2.65mm spacers.
    A narrower chain than Campag 9sp (10sp or Shimano?) would help minimise any noise caused by the
    smaller than standard gaps (due to thicker sprockets). Could just try Campag 9sp spacers first.

    Thin shims may be needed under the largest sprocket to bulk-out cassette for the above two options.

    Another alternative is a Marchisio cassette from http://anysystem.de

    Spacing info: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#spacing

    ~PB
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > Unfortunately, conversion bodies to fit 8-speed hubs don't seem to be obtainable

    www.parker-international.co.uk/hub_spares.htm

    > , since Campagnolo did a major (and much needed) upgrade to their hub design.

    Besides the aluminium to save weight on the freewheel body, what are the improvements to the Mirage
    and Veloce rear models (which still have cartridge bearings)? Apart from the ability to take nine
    sprockets, I'm not aware of any, and the extra dishing must make for a weaker wheel.

    I do think the Centaur/Chorus/Record hubs are rather niiiiiice.

    ~PB
     
  5. Peter-<< My Campy Record 8 speed levers (1996 vintage) have been smashed as well as a CAAD4 frame.
    >><BR><BR> << Can anyone confirm that all the parts I need in addition to the levers are a freehub
    body, cassette and chain?? Present derailleurs and chainrings should be fine?? >><BR><BR>

    That is correct, we do this type of conversion all the time. Use any 9s ERGO form any year. You
    could also upgrade to 10s with the same items...Particularly since Veloce is now 10s for 2004...Use
    the same ders, rings, etc.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    >From: "Peter D"

    >I got hit by a car last week and the bike is wrecked and I was very lucky with minor injuries so
    >not complaining too much!!

    If it was the other driver's fault, you should be *complaining* loud and long. If you have your own
    driver's insurance, you should call them for help. Not on a bike accident, but "worked for me".

    Their fault? Frame trashed? Let them buy you a nice new bike, and pay for a trip to the doc to get
    checked out, plus any lost work time. Let them (insurance co.) keep the old bike. "Wrecked" bad
    enough to trash the front end and frame is "totalled" in my book. --Tom Paterson
     
  7. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > Pete-<< what are the improvements to the Mirage and Veloce rear models (which still have cartridge
    > bearings)? Apart from the ability to take nine sprockets, I'm not aware of any, and the extra
    > dishing must make for a weaker wheel.
    >
    > I do think the Centaur/Chorus/Record hubs are rather niiiiiice.
    > >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Dish the the same for all the hubs, not just the high end ones...

    I know. I meant 9sp have more dish than 8sp, and Centaur is much nicer than Mirage. Two unrelated
    observations.

    ~PB
     
  8. Peter D

    Peter D Guest

    Thanks for all the help guys.

    The insurance company are being good but they always depreciate stuff so its hard to get to where
    you were without some expense. The only silver lining is that I should have a new frame although I
    had absolutely no need for one.

    Regarding the medical stuff. New Zealand has a bizarre accident compensation scheme which takes care
    of all that. I say bizarre because if you have an accident (road, sporting, work etc) you're covered
    but if you get a nasty disease or fall apart for other reasons its tough. You need your own medical
    cover or rely on the Health Service. We're still very similar to Britain but heading towards the
    American way....

    Very OT but may be of interest....

    Thanks again Pete.

    "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    m18.aol.com...
    > >From: "Peter D"
    >
    > >I got hit by a car last week and the bike is wrecked and I was very lucky with minor injuries so
    > >not complaining too much!!
    >
    > If it was the other driver's fault, you should be *complaining* loud and
    long.
    > If you have your own driver's insurance, you should call them for help.
    Not on
    > a bike accident, but "worked for me".
    >
    > Their fault? Frame trashed? Let them buy you a nice new bike, and pay for
    a
    > trip to the doc to get checked out, plus any lost work time. Let them (insurance co.) keep the old
    > bike. "Wrecked" bad enough to trash the front
    end
    > and frame is "totalled" in my book. --Tom Paterson
     
  9. I wrote:

    >>Unfortunately, conversion bodies to fit 8-speed hubs don't seem to be obtainable, since Campagnolo
    >>did a major (and much needed) upgrade to their hub design.

    Pete Biggs asked:

    > Besides the aluminium to save weight on the freewheel body, what are the improvements to the
    > Mirage and Veloce rear models (which still have cartridge bearings)? Apart from the ability to
    > take nine sprockets, I'm not aware of any, and the extra dishing must make for a weaker wheel.

    Actually, the dish is the same, the 9-speed sprockets are closer together than the 8-speeds were.

    The older hubs used 10 mm axles, which were somewhat prone to breakage/bendage. Newer models use
    "oversized" axles, curing this problem.

    Sheldon "Bigger Be Better" Brown +------------------------------------+
    | Immigrants are not our burden, | They are our wealth --Jane Adams |
    +------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
    FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  10. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:52:24 +1300, "Peter D" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Can anyone confirm that all the parts I need in addition to the levers are a freehub body, cassette
    >and chain?? Present derailleurs and chainrings should be fine??

    That will work but you don't need that much. If you get an extra 8sp cog and a bunch of 2.5 mm
    spacers, you can get 9 cogs on the 8sp hub body and it will shift fine. OR, you can just put a large
    spacer on before you put your 8 cogs and 2.5 mm spacers on.
     
  11. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:

    >> Besides the aluminium to save weight on the freewheel body, what are the improvements to the
    >> Mirage and Veloce rear models (which still have cartridge bearings)? Apart from the ability to
    >> take nine sprockets, I'm not aware of any, and the extra dishing must make for a weaker wheel.
    >
    > Actually, the dish is the same, the 9-speed sprockets are closer together than the 8-speeds were.

    9sp sprockets are closer together but 9sp Campagnolo cassettes are 1.25mm wider than 8sp Campagnolo
    cassettes as well. Perhaps 9sp hubs have the largest sprocket closer to the spokes (?). According to
    DT Spokes Calculator, center to left flange is 1mm less with 9sp hub. Is this relevant?

    > The older hubs used 10 mm axles, which were somewhat prone to breakage/bendage. Newer models use
    > "oversized" axles, curing this problem.

    Do you mean the oversized aluminium ones with the threadless cones, etc? Mirage and Veloce don't
    have these. But if the new Mirage has steel axles large than 10mm, that'll be a good reason to
    upgrade my old 8sp wheel sooner rather than later, thanks.

    ~PB
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    I asked:
    >> Besides the aluminium to save weight on the freewheel body, what are the improvements to the
    >> Mirage and Veloce rear models (which still have cartridge bearings)? [compared to 8-speed
    >> versions]
    /snip

    Sheldon Brown replied:
    > The older hubs used 10 mm axles,

    Up to what year? With cassette hubs? Cartridge versions?

    > which were somewhat prone to breakage/bendage. Newer models use "oversized" axles, curing this
    > problem.

    After looking up the part numbers*, I see the axles haven't changed since 1998 (as far back as
    Campag's online manuals go):

    1998 Mirage (8-speed) rear axle: FH-MI001 2004 Mirage (9-speed) rear axle: FH-MI001

    These seem to be about 14.5mm.

    * http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares04_B.pdf - page 5 http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares98-
    B.pdf - page 13

    ~PB
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>,
    Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Actually, the dish is the same, the 9-speed sprockets are closer together than the 8-speeds were.

    For all practical purposes.

    I installed 9 Speed Record Titanium freehubs on two 8-speed Chorus hubs. Originally, I had one flat
    washer between the split washer and driveside nut. The 1998 parts catalog shows two FH-RE017s.

    Two as illustrated in the catalog were required for the Campy 9-speed chain pins to clear my
    right dropout.

    In theory I ought to dish my rear wheels half a washer width right, although it seems fine.

    Now my dish is off by half a modestly thick washer :)

    --
    <a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a
     
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