Campy Ergo's with Ultegra drivetrain?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Kovie, Oct 19, 2003.

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  1. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    I'm building up a road bike and will probably go with Ultegras for the price/performance. However,
    I've heard that Ultegra STI's are poorly made and fall apart after a year or two, or at least become
    really pokey, and can't really be fixed. (If this is not true, or if Shimano has beefed up the
    Ultegras in recent years, please let me know.)

    So I'm wondering if it's possible to go with Campy Ergo's instead, and keep everything else Ultegra.
    If this is possible, are there any drawbacks? E.g. will shifting be less smooth and precise? Also,
    which non-Record Campy's should I go with, if this can be made to work?

    Note that I'm going with a triple setup, so the cranks, BB, rear and front derailleurs will all be
    Ultegra triple, although I might get a 105 cassette to take advantage of a sale ($18 at Nashbar
    after the 10% discount).

    --
    Kovie [email protected]
     
    Tags:


  2. Andrew Price

    Andrew Price Guest

    "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > So I'm wondering if it's possible to go with Campy Ergo's instead, and
    keep
    > everything else Ultegra. If this is possible, are there any drawbacks?
    E.g.
    > will shifting be less smooth and precise?

    I have done this when my Ultegra levers had gotten sloppy and rattly - kept the Ultegra bb, brakes,
    front der, chainwheels and cranks - works flawlessly with 10 sp Campy levers and rear der.

    Love the clean look and feel of less visable cables and like having the brake releases both on the
    brakes and on the Ergo levers. Once you get used to the buttons on the Ergos I doubt you will be
    going back.

    Also, which non-Record Campy's
    > should I go with, if this can be made to work?

    Only thing I would do differently now is go with Centaur not Chorus - much better value and no
    noticeable performance difference for this weekend warrior and I suspect for most of us. A removeble
    link makes cleaning and packing much easier (I think standard Campy chains do not come with this but
    the Wipperman chains do).
    >
    > Note that I'm going with a triple setup, so the cranks, BB, rear and front derailleurs will all be
    > Ultegra triple, although I might get a 105
    cassette
    > to take advantage of a sale ($18 at Nashbar after the 10% discount).
    >
    Mines a double chainwheel but pretty sure Campy do a triple in Centaur and Chorus - with 10sp you
    get a huge range of cassettes even, dare I say it, more than you really need but it is nice

    hope you get a good result - I was really pleased with doing this - best Andrew
     
  3. B

    B Guest

    Ergos will handle a triple. 10 spd ergo levers w/9spd shimano works very well. I route my cable to
    the rdr in the non standard way. Excellent shifting.

    B

    (remove clothes to reply)
     
  4. Graham

    Graham Guest

    "B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Ergos will handle a triple. 10 spd ergo levers w/9spd shimano works very
    well.
    > I route my cable to the rdr in the non standard way. Excellent shifting.
    >
    > B
    >
    > (remove clothes to reply)

    Why didn't you all by Campagnolo in the first place ?

    Graham
     
  5. nosp

    nosp Guest

    you use ergo's with a shimano rear der?

    i had always heard that you can't do that.

    >>Why didn't you all by Campagnolo in the first place ?
    >
    >I also have a XTR rdr so I can put on a 34 tooth rear cassette if needed. B
     
  6. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    Is your rear derailleur a Shimano or Campy, and which model? Which of your drivetrain components
    other than the shifters are Campy?

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Ergos will handle a triple. 10 spd ergo levers w/9spd shimano works very
    well.
    > I route my cable to the rdr in the non standard way. Excellent shifting.
    >
    > B
    >
    > (remove clothes to reply)
     
  7. If you're buying new it might be worth getting Campagnolo F/RD and going with an American
    Classic/Bill Shook cassette. Alfred E bike sells these for a reasonable cost and they have worked
    great for me. I'd second, or third or whatever the Centaur recommendation. Any crank will work, I
    eventually went for a truativ to use an ISIS bb. If cost is an issue, Shimano 105 or Tekro brakes
    are I think the best bang for the buck.
     
  8. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    What if I decide to get a Centaur rdr. Will this work with an Ultegra 9spd cassette? The price
    difference isn't that great and I like the look of the Campy's, plus I won't need to adjust anything
    to make it work, provided they're compatible with Ultegra cassettes.

    Also, if I'm going with a front triple and decide to get a Centaur fdr (might as well match what I
    have in back), will I need a Campy triple crankset & bb, or will Ultegra triple cranks & bb work
    with a Campy fdr?

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "CBike" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > It works providing you approach it realizing there is a difference in
    cable
    > pull between Campy and Shimano. HubBub's page has a description and
    several
    > pictures showing the required cable anchor on the derailler.
    >
    > www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm
    >
    > We've used this same setup on several bikes; tandems, touring and road
    with
    > equally good results. It's another creative option cyclists have come up with such as respacing
    > cassettes or using a 9 speed Shimano cassette with Campy derailer /
    shifters.
    >
    > Charlie Myer Indiana
     
  9. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    From following this thread it looks like hat it's possible to use Ergo shifters with Shimano 9s
    cassettes using either a Campy or Shimano rear derailleur. The Ergo-Campy rdr works out of the box,
    so to speak, while the Ergo-Shimano rdr requires a bit of tweaking, but can be made to work quite
    well. However, I'm still a bit confused as to which Ergo shifters to get. Are you saying that with a
    Shimano rdr I can use 10s Ergos, or would 9s be better?

    What if I decide to go with a Campy rdr, do I need the 9s or 10s rdr and/or Ergos, or would both
    work just as well in any combo? Ideally, I'd like to go with 10s on both, to allow for future
    upgradability to a full 10s Campy setup.

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Ergos will handle a triple. 10 spd ergo levers w/9spd shimano works very
    well.
    > I route my cable to the rdr in the non standard way. Excellent shifting.
    >
    > B
    >
    > (remove clothes to reply)
     
  10. > From following this thread it looks like hat it's possible to use Ergo shifters with Shimano 9s
    > cassettes using either a Campy or Shimano rear derailleur. The Ergo-Campy rdr works out of the
    > box, so to speak, while
    the
    > Ergo-Shimano rdr requires a bit of tweaking, but can be made to work quite well. However, I'm
    > still a bit confused as to which Ergo shifters to get. Are you saying that with a Shimano rdr I
    > can use 10s Ergos, or would 9s be better?
    >
    > What if I decide to go with a Campy rdr, do I need the 9s or 10s rdr
    and/or
    > Ergos, or would both work just as well in any combo? Ideally, I'd like to
    go
    > with 10s on both, to allow for future upgradability to a full 10s Campy setup.
    >
    > --
    > Kovie [email protected]

    Here's the deal. You have a few options:

    1. You can use a Campy 9 rear derailleur(9's and 10's don't really matter here) and Campy 9 ERGO's
    with a Shimano 9 cassette (which will come with lock ring that fits your current wheel set). The
    match isn't perfect and you'll have to do a bit of tweaking to get it right but results run from
    'acceptable' to 'very good'. This is what I'm currently running and I find it to work pretty well
    but not perfect.

    2. You can use a Campy 9 rear derailleur with Campy 10 ERGO's and a Shimano 9 cassette. This
    requires that you route the rear derailleur cable slightly differently which modifies the
    behavior of the rear derailleur. I haven't tried it myself (my ERGOs are 9's) but reports seem to
    suggest that results vary from 'good' to 'perfect'.

    3. You can run a Campy 9 rear dreailleur, Campy 9 ERGOs and use an third party cassette that will
    fit on your Shimano compatible hubs and will also match the ERGO spacing. This is probably the
    simplest option but the cassettes aren't cheap. Also, I've heard that some manufacturer's
    cassettes are better than others but I don't have any personal experience. If I can't get my
    Shimano 9/Campy 9 setup to work any better than it currently does than I will probably try this
    option next.

    As for cranks and front derailleur, you can run anything you want. Campy front shifting is triple
    capable out of the box and will work with any triple front derailleur. In my opinion, Campy cranks
    look nicer as well. People will argue, but I think Centaur makes the most sense. Lot's of bang for
    you buck, probably better than Ultegra and cheaper as well. That said, I have Veloce components and
    find them to be as good if not better than 105. I haven't been disappointed.

    If you still haven't bought more than the brakes and wheels, then I would recommend a Centaur 9
    group, and perhaps 10 speed ERGO levers. You'll have to fiddle with the cable a bit to make it work
    with a 9 cassette but you'll be able to upgrade to 10 later if you want, which seemed to be a
    priority for you.
     
  11. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    Thanks. I didn't know that the Ergo 10s were smoother than the 9s in such a setup. I assume that
    since you didn't give it as an option, using a Campy 10s rdr is not going to work, nor a 10s fdr?

    Also, the 3rd option you listed won't work for me, because the Mavic hubs on the Cosmos (M9) won't
    work with these cassettes, because the biggest cog will be too close to the spokes (or something to
    that effect).

    I'm starting to wonder if perhaps returning the wheels and going all-Campy might not be the best
    option. It would cost me a bit more than I'd hoped, but hey, this will hopefully last me for years.

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > From following this thread it looks like hat it's possible to use Ergo shifters with Shimano 9s
    > > cassettes using either a Campy or Shimano rear derailleur. The Ergo-Campy rdr works out of the
    > > box, so to speak, while
    > the
    > > Ergo-Shimano rdr requires a bit of tweaking, but can be made to work
    quite
    > > well. However, I'm still a bit confused as to which Ergo shifters to
    get.
    > > Are you saying that with a Shimano rdr I can use 10s Ergos, or would 9s
    be
    > > better?
    > >
    > > What if I decide to go with a Campy rdr, do I need the 9s or 10s rdr
    > and/or
    > > Ergos, or would both work just as well in any combo? Ideally, I'd like
    to
    > go
    > > with 10s on both, to allow for future upgradability to a full 10s Campy setup.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Kovie [email protected]
    >
    >
    > Here's the deal. You have a few options:
    >
    > 1. You can use a Campy 9 rear derailleur(9's and 10's don't really matter here) and Campy 9 ERGO's
    > with a Shimano 9 cassette (which will come with lock ring that fits your current wheel set).
    > The match isn't perfect and you'll have to do a bit of tweaking to get it right but results run
    > from 'acceptable' to 'very good'. This is what I'm currently running and I find it to work
    > pretty well but not perfect.
    >
    > 2. You can use a Campy 9 rear derailleur with Campy 10 ERGO's and a
    Shimano
    > 9 cassette. This requires that you route the rear derailleur cable
    slightly
    > differently which modifies the behavior of the rear derailleur. I haven't tried it myself (my
    > ERGOs are 9's) but reports seem to suggest that
    results
    > vary from 'good' to 'perfect'.
    >
    > 3. You can run a Campy 9 rear dreailleur, Campy 9 ERGOs and use an third party cassette that will
    > fit on your Shimano compatible hubs and will also match the ERGO spacing. This is probably the
    > simplest option but the cassettes aren't cheap. Also, I've heard that some manufacturer's
    cassettes
    > are better than others but I don't have any personal experience. If I
    can't
    > get my Shimano 9/Campy 9 setup to work any better than it currently does than I will probably try
    > this option next.
    >
    > As for cranks and front derailleur, you can run anything you want. Campy front shifting is triple
    > capable out of the box and will work with any triple front derailleur. In my opinion, Campy cranks
    > look nicer as well. People will argue, but I think Centaur makes the most sense. Lot's of bang for
    > you buck, probably better than Ultegra and cheaper as well. That said,
    I
    > have Veloce components and find them to be as good if not better than 105.
    I
    > haven't been disappointed.
    >
    > If you still haven't bought more than the brakes and wheels, then I would recommend a Centaur 9
    > group, and perhaps 10 speed ERGO levers. You'll have to fiddle with the cable a bit to make it
    > work with a 9 cassette but
    you'll
    > be able to upgrade to 10 later if you want, which seemed to be a priority for you.
     
  12. "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:YWOkb.188469$%[email protected]...
    > Thanks. I didn't know that the Ergo 10s were smoother than the 9s in such
    a
    > setup. I assume that since you didn't give it as an option, using a Campy 10s rdr is not going to
    > work, nor a 10s fdr?
    >
    > Also, the 3rd option you listed won't work for me, because the Mavic hubs
    on
    > the Cosmos (M9) won't work with these cassettes, because the biggest cog will be too close to the
    > spokes (or something to that effect).
    >
    > I'm starting to wonder if perhaps returning the wheels and going all-Campy might not be the
    > best option. It would cost me a bit more than I'd hoped, but hey, this will hopefully last me
    > for years.
    >
    > --
    > Kovie [email protected]

    Kovie,

    Actually the 10s rdr isn't a problem. Rear derailleurs aren't really 9's and 10's even though
    they're marked and sold that way. The cable pull is all in the ERGO shifter so it doesn't matter
    which one you use. Front derailleurs don't matter either. A 9's fdr or a 10's fdr are basically the
    same animal. As long as you're running a 9's chain and 9's cranks you shouldn't encounter a problem.

    I don't know why your Mavic hubs won't accept a 3rd-party cassette. They're set up to work with
    Shimano compatible hubs. I could see that there might be an issue with an 11 cog but you could
    always get a Marchisio cassette that starts with a 12 or 13. Most people don't really need an 11
    anyway so you're not losing anything. I wouldn't return your wheel set because there are advantages
    to having a Shimano compatible hub. Mainly, that you can run a wider variety of cassettes. Campy
    cassettes are a bit limiting if you want anything larger than a 27 or 28 big cog in the rear.

    Rob Strickland
     
  13. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    So, you're saying that any combination of the following setup will work equally well:

    Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s OR 10s rdr + Campy 9s OR 10s fdr + Campy 9s OR 10s Ergo
    + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand) = 9s drivetrain that's as good as a
    standard 9s gruppo from either Shimano or Campy (or at least as good as is possible when combining
    Campy and Shimano)

    If so, then I think that the following would probably be the least expensive 9s setup for now, and
    the cheapest and easiest to upgrade to a 10s later:

    Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s rdr + Campy 9s fdr + Campy 10s Ergo + 9s chain (any
    brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand).

    To upgrade to a 10s drivetrain I'd just have to replace the 9s cassette and chain with their 10s
    versions. Correct? Or is there something I'm missing here? Campy's site seems to say that 9s rdrs &
    fdrs only work with 9s Ergos, and 10s rdrs & fdrs only work with 10s Ergos. Is this marketing hype
    designed to keep people buying the latest and greatest, or is there some truth to this?

    Incidentally, is there really such a thing as a 9s vs. 10s crank?

    As for the incompatible 3rd party cassette, the company that makes these specfically says that they
    won't work with these hubs, because the biggest cog on these cassettes is too close to the spokes
    and the chain would rub against them.

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:YWOkb.188469$%[email protected]...
    > > Thanks. I didn't know that the Ergo 10s were smoother than the 9s in
    such
    > a
    > > setup. I assume that since you didn't give it as an option, using a
    Campy
    > > 10s rdr is not going to work, nor a 10s fdr?
    > >
    > > Also, the 3rd option you listed won't work for me, because the Mavic
    hubs
    > on
    > > the Cosmos (M9) won't work with these cassettes, because the biggest cog will be too close to
    > > the spokes (or something to that effect).
    > >
    > > I'm starting to wonder if perhaps returning the wheels and going
    all-Campy
    > > might not be the best option. It would cost me a bit more than I'd
    hoped,
    > > but hey, this will hopefully last me for years.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Kovie [email protected]
    >
    >
    > Kovie,
    >
    > Actually the 10s rdr isn't a problem. Rear derailleurs aren't really 9's
    and
    > 10's even though they're marked and sold that way. The cable pull is all
    in
    > the ERGO shifter so it doesn't matter which one you use. Front derailleurs don't matter either. A
    > 9's fdr or a 10's fdr are basically the same
    animal.
    > As long as you're running a 9's chain and 9's cranks you shouldn't
    encounter
    > a problem.
    >
    > I don't know why your Mavic hubs won't accept a 3rd-party cassette.
    They're
    > set up to work with Shimano compatible hubs. I could see that there might
    be
    > an issue with an 11 cog but you could always get a Marchisio cassette that starts with a 12 or 13.
    > Most people don't really need an 11 anyway so
    you're
    > not losing anything. I wouldn't return your wheel set because there are advantages to having a
    > Shimano compatible hub. Mainly, that you can run a wider variety of cassettes. Campy cassettes are
    > a bit limiting if you want anything larger than a 27 or 28 big cog in the rear.
    >
    > Rob Strickland
     
  14. > Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s OR 10s rdr + Campy 9s OR 10s fdr + Campy 9s OR 10s
    > Ergo + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb
    (any
    > brand) = 9s drivetrain that's as good as a standard 9s gruppo from either Shimano or Campy (or at
    > least as good as is possible when combining Campy and Shimano)

    Yes, understanding that if you go with 9's ERGO shifters then you'll have to fiddle with the rear
    derailleur a bit. If you go with 10's ERGO shifters then you'll have to use the 'special' cable
    routing on the rear derailleur. Either way it isn't too difficult, although the latter seems to get
    the best results.

    > If so, then I think that the following would probably be the least
    expensive
    > 9s setup for now, and the cheapest and easiest to upgrade to a 10s later:
    >
    > Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s rdr + Campy 9s fdr + Campy
    10s
    > Ergo + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand).

    Looks good.

    > To upgrade to a 10s drivetrain I'd just have to replace the 9s cassette
    and
    > chain with their 10s versions. Correct? Or is there something I'm missing here? Campy's site seems
    > to say that 9s rdrs & fdrs only work with 9s
    Ergos,
    > and 10s rdrs & fdrs only work with 10s Ergos. Is this marketing hype designed to keep people
    > buying the latest and greatest, or is there some truth to this?

    You'll have to replace the cassette and chain minimum. You may have trouble with your rear hub
    accepting a Shimano (or Campy) 10's cassette. It sounds like the Mavic hubs are a little funky. A
    true Shimano 9's hub will take the new 10's cassette, or so I hear.

    You're correct about Campy trying to market the latests and greatest. There's really no difference
    between 9's and 10's as far as fdrs and rdrs are concerned. I understand that the 10's fdr has a
    removeable plastic piece to make it slightly narrower (for a narrower chain) but that in essence
    it's the same as the 9's fdr.

    > Incidentally, is there really such a thing as a 9s vs. 10s crank?

    No difference in crank functionality, per se, although with Campy you should understand that often
    it is the case that this year's Centaur is the same as last years Chorus. Therefore, there may be
    some cosmetic and/or weight differences between a 9's crank and a 10'. Some have claimed that the
    10's chain rings are slightly narrower but have reported that there is no apparent functional
    difference and that 9's and 10's chains run equally well. I've heard that a 9 speed chain (and I
    presume 10) will sometimes tend to get caught on a 8 speed chain ring but that shouldn't be an issue
    for you. In fact, you could save yourself a little money by buying an all 9 speed group except for
    the ERGO shifters. That way you're guaranteed compatibility between the Campy parts and using the
    cable re-routing method you should have good compatiblity between the rdr and Mavic hub.

    > As for the incompatible 3rd party cassette, the company that makes these specfically says that
    > they won't work with these hubs, because the biggest cog on these cassettes is too close to the
    > spokes and the chain would rub against them.

    Strange, but it sounds like they would know. Nonetheless, unless you're super picky about
    drive-train performance I don't see any reason to sell the wheel set and at least one reason to keep
    it (greater choice of cassettes). Shimano hubs have the reputation for being a bit more durable than
    Campy but whether that's true and what that says about Mavic hubs, I don't know. Feel free to
    contact me off the group if you have any more questions. I tried to email you directly but your
    address wouldn't work. I'm off to go for a ride on my Shimagnolo equipped touring bike.

    Rob Strickland
     
  15. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    So, you're saying that any combination of the following setup will work equally well:

    Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s OR 10s rdr + Campy 9s OR 10s fdr + Campy 9s OR 10s Ergo
    + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand) = 9s drivetrain that's as good as a
    standard 9s gruppo from either Shimano or Campy (or at least as good as is possible when combining
    Campy and Shimano)

    If so, then I think that the following would probably be the least expensive 9s setup for now, and
    the cheapest and easiest to upgrade to a 10s later:

    Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s rdr + Campy 9s fdr + Campy 10s Ergo + 9s chain (any
    brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand).

    To upgrade to a 10s drivetrain I'd just have to replace the 9s cassette and chain with their 10s
    versions. Correct? Or is there something I'm missing here? Campy's site seems to say that 9s rdrs &
    fdrs only work with 9s Ergos, and 10s rdrs & fdrs only work with 10s Ergos. Is this marketing hype
    designed to keep people buying the latest and greatest, or is there some truth to this?

    Incidentally, is there really such a thing as a 9s vs. 10s crank?

    As for the incompatible 3rd party cassette, the company that makes these specfically says that they
    won't work with these hubs, because the biggest cog on these cassettes is too close to the spokes
    and the chain would rub against them.

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:YWOkb.188469$%[email protected]...
    > > Thanks. I didn't know that the Ergo 10s were smoother than the 9s in
    such
    > a
    > > setup. I assume that since you didn't give it as an option, using a
    Campy
    > > 10s rdr is not going to work, nor a 10s fdr?
    > >
    > > Also, the 3rd option you listed won't work for me, because the Mavic
    hubs
    > on
    > > the Cosmos (M9) won't work with these cassettes, because the biggest cog will be too close to
    > > the spokes (or something to that effect).
    > >
    > > I'm starting to wonder if perhaps returning the wheels and going
    all-Campy
    > > might not be the best option. It would cost me a bit more than I'd
    hoped,
    > > but hey, this will hopefully last me for years.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Kovie [email protected]
    >
    >
    > Kovie,
    >
    > Actually the 10s rdr isn't a problem. Rear derailleurs aren't really 9's
    and
    > 10's even though they're marked and sold that way. The cable pull is all
    in
    > the ERGO shifter so it doesn't matter which one you use. Front derailleurs don't matter either. A
    > 9's fdr or a 10's fdr are basically the same
    animal.
    > As long as you're running a 9's chain and 9's cranks you shouldn't
    encounter
    > a problem.
    >
    > I don't know why your Mavic hubs won't accept a 3rd-party cassette.
    They're
    > set up to work with Shimano compatible hubs. I could see that there might
    be
    > an issue with an 11 cog but you could always get a Marchisio cassette that starts with a 12 or 13.
    > Most people don't really need an 11 anyway so
    you're
    > not losing anything. I wouldn't return your wheel set because there are advantages to having a
    > Shimano compatible hub. Mainly, that you can run a wider variety of cassettes. Campy cassettes are
    > a bit limiting if you want anything larger than a 27 or 28 big cog in the rear.
    >
    > Rob Strickland
     
  16. Kovie

    Kovie Guest

    Thanks Rob. I spam-proof my net news emails address by adding 4 letters at the end. You have to
    manually strip these off to email me. Can't tell you which as that makes it easier for the spam
    bots, but it's really easy to figure out. But if it's just as well with you I'd rather keep this
    thread online, so that others as befuddled as myself about all these details can benefit from it.

    I'm leaning towards getting all 9s Campy components, including the Ergos, for price reasons, and to
    keep it all in the same line. If you say that the 9s fdr is equivalent to the 10s fdr, and the 9s
    rdr and 9s Ergos can be converted to 10s, then that's good enough for me and I'll deal with it when
    I need to, assuming they ever comes out with a 10s casssette that works with these hubs.

    However, you also said that this won't shift as smoothly as 10s Ergos with the special routing. Why
    is that, and what kind of non-smoothness would I be likely to notice? E.g. trimming needed with
    every shift, clunky shifting, misshifting, chain falling off cogs and/or chainrings, etc.?

    As for replacing the wheels with Campy-compatible ones, I doubt I'll do that. Just the wheel swap
    would cost me $100, and the 10s components are more expensive as well, so this will cost me
    something around $200, just to get one more gear that I don't really need for the kind of riding
    that I do, or would like to do. Like I said, if and when I someday want to upgrade to 10s, I'll deal
    with it then. All other things being equal, though, I'd rather get components now that will make
    this easier and perhaps less expensive later, so long as they in no way compromise performance or
    reliability now.

    --
    Kovie [email protected]

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s OR 10s rdr + Campy 9s OR
    10s
    > > fdr + Campy 9s OR 10s Ergo + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb
    > (any
    > > brand) = 9s drivetrain that's as good as a standard 9s gruppo from
    either
    > > Shimano or Campy (or at least as good as is possible when combining
    Campy
    > > and Shimano)
    >
    > Yes, understanding that if you go with 9's ERGO shifters then you'll have
    to
    > fiddle with the rear derailleur a bit. If you go with 10's ERGO shifters then you'll have to use
    > the 'special' cable routing on the rear
    derailleur.
    > Either way it isn't too difficult, although the latter seems to get the
    best
    > results.
    >
    > > If so, then I think that the following would probably be the least
    > expensive
    > > 9s setup for now, and the cheapest and easiest to upgrade to a 10s
    later:
    > >
    > > Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s rdr + Campy 9s fdr + Campy
    > 10s
    > > Ergo + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand).
    >
    > Looks good.
    >
    > > To upgrade to a 10s drivetrain I'd just have to replace the 9s cassette
    > and
    > > chain with their 10s versions. Correct? Or is there something I'm
    missing
    > > here? Campy's site seems to say that 9s rdrs & fdrs only work with 9s
    > Ergos,
    > > and 10s rdrs & fdrs only work with 10s Ergos. Is this marketing hype designed to keep people
    > > buying the latest and greatest, or is there some truth to this?
    >
    > You'll have to replace the cassette and chain minimum. You may have
    trouble
    > with your rear hub accepting a Shimano (or Campy) 10's cassette. It sounds like the Mavic hubs are
    > a little funky. A true Shimano 9's hub will take
    the
    > new 10's cassette, or so I hear.
    >
    > You're correct about Campy trying to market the latests and greatest. There's really no difference
    > between 9's and 10's as far as fdrs and rdrs are concerned. I understand that the 10's fdr has a
    > removeable plastic
    piece
    > to make it slightly narrower (for a narrower chain) but that in essence
    it's
    > the same as the 9's fdr.
    >
    > > Incidentally, is there really such a thing as a 9s vs. 10s crank?
    >
    > No difference in crank functionality, per se, although with Campy you
    should
    > understand that often it is the case that this year's Centaur is the same
    as
    > last years Chorus. Therefore, there may be some cosmetic and/or weight differences between a 9's
    > crank and a 10'. Some have claimed that the 10's chain rings are slightly narrower but have
    > reported that there is no apparent functional difference and that 9's and 10's chains run equally
    > well. I've heard that a 9 speed chain (and I presume 10) will sometimes
    tend
    > to get caught on a 8 speed chain ring but that shouldn't be an issue for you. In fact, you could
    > save yourself a little money by buying an all 9 speed group except for the ERGO shifters. That way
    > you're guaranteed compatibility between the Campy parts and using the cable re-routing
    method
    > you should have good compatiblity between the rdr and Mavic hub.
    >
    > > As for the incompatible 3rd party cassette, the company that makes these specfically says that
    > > they won't work with these hubs, because the
    biggest
    > > cog on these cassettes is too close to the spokes and the chain would
    rub
    > > against them.
    >
    > Strange, but it sounds like they would know. Nonetheless, unless you're super picky about
    > drive-train performance I don't see any reason to sell
    the
    > wheel set and at least one reason to keep it (greater choice of
    cassettes).
    > Shimano hubs have the reputation for being a bit more durable than Campy
    but
    > whether that's true and what that says about Mavic hubs, I don't know.
    Feel
    > free to contact me off the group if you have any more questions. I tried
    to
    > email you directly but your address wouldn't work. I'm off to go for a
    ride
    > on my Shimagnolo equipped touring bike.
    >
    > Rob Strickland
     
  17. > I'm leaning towards getting all 9s Campy components, including the Ergos, for price reasons, and
    > to keep it all in the same line. If you say that
    the
    > 9s fdr is equivalent to the 10s fdr, and the 9s rdr and 9s Ergos can be converted to 10s, then
    > that's good enough for me and I'll deal with it
    when
    > I need to, assuming they ever comes out with a 10s casssette that works
    with
    > these hubs.

    If and when you want to convert to 10s, you'll have to have the right ERGO shifter converted (new
    shift disc-roughly $40+labor), add a 10s cassette and 10s chain and you're done. You won't have to
    do anything to the rear derailleur.

    > However, you also said that this won't shift as smoothly as 10s Ergos with the special routing.
    > Why is that, and what kind of non-smoothness would I
    be
    > likely to notice? E.g. trimming needed with every shift, clunky shifting, misshifting, chain
    > falling off cogs and/or chainrings, etc.?

    From my reading it seems that the approach of using 10s ERGO shifters and re-routing the cable
    has been the more successful way to do it. On the other hand, I think the re-routing approach is
    supposed to work only with Shimano rdrs. That's just hearsay, though, as I've never tried that
    approach myself. I just went with all 9s Veloce, an XT hub and LX cassette as that's what I had
    at the time and because I wanted a setup more congenial to touring. I find the shifting to be
    fine but it does take a little bit of fiddling with it to get it 'dialed in'. The only issue I
    have is that the 32 tooth cog on the LX cassette seems to be taxing the Veloce derailleur a bit
    more than it's supposed to causing it to rumble a bit. I'm going to play with it a little to see
    if I can improve that one problem but other than that it runs fine. If you run a smaller cassette
    then you should have no issues whatsoever. If you'd like I have a .pdf doc put together by Louis
    Du Brey that details the methods we've talked about (and a couple more). I'd be more than happy
    to send it to you.

    > As for replacing the wheels with Campy-compatible ones, I doubt I'll do that. Just the wheel swap
    > would cost me $100, and the 10s components are more expensive as well, so this will cost me
    > something around $200, just
    to
    > get one more gear that I don't really need for the kind of riding that I
    do,
    > or would like to do. Like I said, if and when I someday want to upgrade to 10s, I'll deal with it
    > then. All other things being equal, though, I'd rather get components now that will make this
    > easier and perhaps less expensive later, so long as they in no way compromise performance or
    > reliability now.

    I think that's the way to go. If you decide later on that you want 10 gears you can always upgrade
    Campy relatively cheaply.
     
  18. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:12:58 GMT, "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s OR 10s rdr + Campy 9s OR 10s fdr + Campy 9s OR 10s
    >Ergo + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb (any brand) = 9s drivetrain that's as good as a
    >standard 9s gruppo from either Shimano or Campy (or at least as good as is possible when combining
    >Campy and Shimano)
    >
    >If so, then I think that the following would probably be the least expensive 9s setup for now, and
    >the cheapest and easiest to upgrade to a 10s later:

    If you want to use Shimano 9 cassettes, it makes no sense to buy 9sp Ergo if you have any incling
    whatsoever for going to 10 sp cassettes. Ten speed Ergo goes down to Veloce. The cost of a shift
    disk is about $35 and about $25 labor. 9sp and 10sp Ergos cost about the same. Forget about Shimano
    rear deralleurs. Rerouting is for an MTB rear derailleur. When using a Campy rear derailleur, and
    shimano 9 cassette, there is less fiddling with 10 sp shifters than 9. Both will run fine. Using the
    10 sp chain, even though you have a 9sp setup, will make the shifts seem smoother.
     
  19. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > I'm building up a road bike and will probably go with Ultegras for the price/performance. However,
    > I've heard that Ultegra STI's are poorly made and fall apart after a year or two, or at least
    > become really pokey, and can't really be fixed. (If this is not true, or if Shimano has beefed up
    > the Ultegras in recent years, please let me know.)
    >
    > So I'm wondering if it's possible to go with Campy Ergo's instead, and keep everything else
    > Ultegra. If this is possible, are there any drawbacks? E.g. will shifting be less smooth and
    > precise? Also, which non-Record Campy's should I go with, if this can be made to work?
    >
    > Note that I'm going with a triple setup, so the cranks, BB, rear and front derailleurs will all be
    > Ultegra triple, although I might get a 105 cassette to take advantage of a sale ($18 at Nashbar
    > after the 10% discount).

    Check out Sheldon Brown's "Shimagnolo" kit:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/kits.html

    Yes, you can do it.

    Matt O.
     
  20. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > >Why didn't you all by Campagnolo in the first place ?
    >
    > I also have a XTR rdr so I can put on a 34 tooth rear cassette if needed.

    Good point. Campy cogs only go up to 29t, and that's only with the 10sp cassettes. Other Campy cogs
    only go to 28t.

    Matt O.
     
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