Campy Ergo's with Ultegra drivetrain?

[Kovie]

I didn't realize it would cost this much to upgrade a 9s Ergo to 10s. Given that they cost the same
($130 at Excel), that the 10s will work with a 9s Shimano cassette, and that it appears that the 10s
shifts more smoothly in such a setup, I agree that the 10s Ergos are the way to go. I assume that it
would be best to go with a matching 10s rdr (a long throw in my case since I'm going triple crank),
especially given that it costs the same as the 9s rdr.

What about cranks? People have claimed in this and other threads that it makes no difference, but on
Campy's site they seem to have both a 9s and 10s triple crank. Is this just marketing hype, or is
there a real difference? Would I be better off with a "10s" triple crank with this setup?

Are you sure that a 10s chain will work with a 9s cassette? Which brand and model do you recommend?

--
Kovie [email protected]

"Paul Kopit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:12:58 GMT, "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Shimano hub + Shimano 9s cassette + Campy 9s OR 10s rdr + Campy 9s OR 10s fdr + Campy 9s OR 10s
> >Ergo + 9s chain (any brand) + 9s triple cranks/bb
(any
> >brand) = 9s drivetrain that's as good as a standard 9s gruppo from either Shimano or Campy (or at
> >least as good as is possible when combining Campy and Shimano)
> >
> >If so, then I think that the following would probably be the least
expensive
> >9s setup for now, and the cheapest and easiest to upgrade to a 10s later:
>
> If you want to use Shimano 9 cassettes, it makes no sense to buy 9sp Ergo if you have any incling
> whatsoever for going to 10 sp cassettes. Ten speed Ergo goes down to Veloce. The cost of a shift
> disk is about $35 and about $25 labor. 9sp and 10sp Ergos cost about the same. Forget about
> Shimano rear deralleurs. Rerouting is for an MTB rear derailleur. When using a Campy rear
> derailleur, and shimano 9 cassette, there is less fiddling with 10 sp shifters than 9. Both will
> run fine. Using the 10 sp chain, even though you have a 9sp setup, will make the shifts seem
> smoother.

 

[Kovie]

I think I've been suffering from bike upgrade-related brain lock as it's obvious that you and others
have been trying to tell me certain things that just haven't been registering! ;-)

What I mean is that although it seems that both 9s & 10 Ergos will work with Shimano 9s cassettes,
the general consensus seems to be that the 10s Ergo will work more smoothly. This is just now
sinking in (lots of new data to absorb so quickly, I guess). Since they cost the same as the 9s,
I'll get these, and have the added benefit of not having to pay to upgrade a 9s to 10s if and when I
decide to upgrade to a full 10s drivetrain.

Sorry to ask a question that's probably been answered by you and others before, but if I go with 10s
Ergos, would it better to go with a 9s or 10s rdr, or does it not make any difference for my current
needs (i.e. Shimano 9s cassette)? Since the 10s rdr costs the same as the 9s rdr, I'd prefer to go
with the 10s, which would make it easier to upgrade to a 10s drivetrain in the future. But if the 9s
will work better with my setup, or the 10s will NOT work with it, I'll go with 9s instead.

Also--and I hope to put this to rest here--what's the deal with the 9s vs. 10s cranks? Are the 10s
cranks absolutely needed for a full 10s drivetrain, or is this just Campy marketing hype, and the
9s cranks would work just as well? Also, for my needs, will either a 9s or 10s crankset work
equally well.

And finally, I'm leaning towards getting a SRAM chain. Which would be the best for my needs (89, 99,
etc.), and is there any point in getting the hollowpin ones? Are these the ones that have a special
master link, and is there a limit to how many times it can it be opened and closed before needing to
be replaced?

Thanks again for your patience and advice! (This goes for everyone who's chimed in here.)

--
Kovie [email protected]

"Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I'm leaning towards getting all 9s Campy components, including the
Ergos,
> > for price reasons, and to keep it all in the same line. If you say that
> the
> > 9s fdr is equivalent to the 10s fdr, and the 9s rdr and 9s Ergos can be converted to 10s, then
> > that's good enough for me and I'll deal with it
> when
> > I need to, assuming they ever comes out with a 10s casssette that works
> with
> > these hubs.
>
> If and when you want to convert to 10s, you'll have to have the right ERGO shifter converted (new
> shift disc-roughly $40+labor), add a 10s cassette
and
> 10s chain and you're done. You won't have to do anything to the rear derailleur.
>
> > However, you also said that this won't shift as smoothly as 10s Ergos
with
> > the special routing. Why is that, and what kind of non-smoothness would
I
> be
> > likely to notice? E.g. trimming needed with every shift, clunky
shifting,
> > misshifting, chain falling off cogs and/or chainrings, etc.?
>
> From my reading it seems that the approach of using 10s ERGO shifters and re-routing the cable has
> been the more successful way to do it. On the
other
> hand, I think the re-routing approach is supposed to work only with
Shimano
> rdrs. That's just hearsay, though, as I've never tried that approach
myself.
> I just went with all 9s Veloce, an XT hub and LX cassette as that's what I had at the time and
> because I wanted a setup more congenial to touring. I find the shifting to be fine but it does
> take a little bit of fiddling
with
> it to get it 'dialed in'. The only issue I have is that the 32 tooth cog
on
> the LX cassette seems to be taxing the Veloce derailleur a bit more than it's supposed to causing
> it to rumble a bit. I'm going to play with it a little to see if I can improve that one problem
> but other than that it
runs
> fine. If you run a smaller cassette then you should have no issues whatsoever. If you'd like I
> have a .pdf doc put together by Louis Du Brey that details the methods we've talked about (and a
> couple more). I'd be
more
> than happy to send it to you.
>
> > As for replacing the wheels with Campy-compatible ones, I doubt I'll do that. Just the wheel
> > swap would cost me $100, and the 10s components are more expensive as well, so this will cost me
> > something around $200, just
> to
> > get one more gear that I don't really need for the kind of riding that I
> do,
> > or would like to do. Like I said, if and when I someday want to upgrade
to
> > 10s, I'll deal with it then. All other things being equal, though, I'd rather get components now
> > that will make this easier and perhaps less expensive later, so long as they in no way
> > compromise performance or reliability now.
>
> I think that's the way to go. If you decide later on that you want 10
gears
> you can always upgrade Campy relatively cheaply.

 

[Robert Strickla]

> What I mean is that although it seems that both 9s & 10 Ergos will work
with
> Shimano 9s cassettes, the general consensus seems to be that the 10s Ergo will work more smoothly.
> This is just now sinking in (lots of new data to absorb so quickly, I guess). Since they cost the
> same as the 9s, I'll get these, and have the added benefit of not having to pay to upgrade a 9s to
> 10s if and when I decide to upgrade to a full 10s drivetrain.

Then go with the 10's. It really is a question of whether you prefer to do the cable re-route or if
you prefer to fiddle with the rear derailleur. If you can get 10's for the price of 9's then why
not. If you're going to do that then you might as well look into a Dura-Ace 10 cassette for your
Mavic wheels and go 10s from the beginning. It will probably be more expensive up front but in the
long run cheaper than buying a 9s cassette and chain now and a 10's cassette and chain later.

> Sorry to ask a question that's probably been answered by you and others before, but if I go
> with 10s Ergos, would it better to go with a 9s or 10s rdr, or does it not make any difference
> for my current needs (i.e. Shimano 9s cassette)? Since the 10s rdr costs the same as the 9s
> rdr, I'd prefer
to
> go with the 10s, which would make it easier to upgrade to a 10s drivetrain in the future. But if
> the 9s will work better with my setup, or the 10s
will
> NOT work with it, I'll go with 9s instead.

I think you're getting yourself all worked up and confused. As I've said before, there's really no
such thing as a 9's or 10's rear derailleur. It's fundamentally the same mech. The difference
between 9's and 10's is in the amount of cable that the ERGO shifter pulls. Take your pick, it
won't matter.

> Also--and I hope to put this to rest here--what's the deal with the 9s vs. 10s cranks? Are the 10s
> cranks absolutely needed for a full 10s
drivetrain,
> or is this just Campy marketing hype, and the 9s cranks would work just as well? Also, for my
> needs, will either a 9s or 10s crankset work equally well.

Ditto as above. 9's vs. 10's cranks is a marketing thing. The cranks are no different. The rings on
a 10s may be ever so slightly narrower (for a 10s chain) but in practice it makes no difference.
Campy makes a lot of similar claims that just aren't true. Think about it for a moment. According to
both Campy and Shimano, you shouldn't be able to mix Campy and Shimano but you can. By comparison,
the difference between Campy 9's and Campy 10's is negligible (ERGO shifters aside).

> And finally, I'm leaning towards getting a SRAM chain. Which would be the best for my needs (89,
> 99, etc.), and is there any point in getting the hollowpin ones? Are these the ones that have a
> special master link, and is there a limit to how many times it can it be opened and closed before
> needing to be replaced?

I use SRAM PC-69's and/or PC-59's on my Campy equipped bike. Works fine. I wouldn't bother spending
more for an 89 or 99. They are consumables after all and I haven't seen any convincing evidence that
an 89 will last longer than a 69. All the SRAM chains come with a Powerlink. As for a limit on
opening and closing, I don't think there really is one. If used mine over and over again (cleaning
once a week) for the life of the chain with no problem.

Rob Strickland

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:38:14 GMT, "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Are you sure that a 10s chain will work with a 9s cassette? Which brand and model do you recommend?

I happen to use an IRD chain because it's the least cost one I have found and it works fine. I
switch from Campy 10 to Shimano 9 on the same bicycle frequently. I need to turn the derailleur
adjusting barrel out to increase the tension by 1½ turns and turn the low gear derailleur stop in
one full turn to switch from Campy 10 to Shimano 9.

I use 8, 9, and 10 sp cranksets. My best shifting for my Sugino 110 bolt pattern double, 48/34,
which is likely a 7sp, is using the IRD 10 or Shimano 9 HG chain. The Shimano HG 9 will also work
fine with Campy 10 cassette.

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:07:09 GMT, "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Since the 10s rdr costs the same as the 9s rdr, I'd prefer to go with the 10s, which would make it
>easier to upgrade to a 10s drivetrain in the future. But if the 9s will work better with my setup,
>or the 10s will NOT work with it, I'll go with 9s instead.

9 or 10 RDR makes zero difference.
>
>Also--and I hope to put this to rest here--what's the deal with the 9s vs. 10s cranks? Are the 10s
>cranks absolutely needed for a full 10s drivetrain, or is this just Campy marketing hype, and the
>9s cranks would work just as well? Also, for my needs, will either a 9s or 10s crankset work
>equally well.
Again, 9 or 10 sp cranks makes no difference.

 

[Kovie]

Thanks Robert. This might be moot actually, as I just got an email from Colorado Cyclist, where I
bought my Cosmos, saying that the American Classic conversion cassettes WILL work with these wheels.
I went to the American Classic site to confirm this and it seems that the key is to use the spacer
that came with the Cosmos. These cassettes come in 10s, which would give me a "real" Campy 10s
drivetrain from the start, w/o the need to fiddle with anything. So I guess I need a 10s drivetrain
after all. Of course, who knows how this will work in reality, and I might have to go with a Shimano
cassette in the end, but since the 10s will work with that just fine, as you say, it's clearly the
way to go either way.

Btw, I got your separate email, and thanks for that too. With my cable modem the pdf didn't slow
things down at all.

--
Kovie [email protected]

 

[A Muzi]

Kovie wrote:

> Thanks Robert. This might be moot actually, as I just got an email from Colorado Cyclist, where I
> bought my Cosmos, saying that the American Classic conversion cassettes WILL work with these
> wheels. I went to the American Classic site to confirm this and it seems that the key is to use
> the spacer that came with the Cosmos. These cassettes come in 10s, which would give me a "real"
> Campy 10s drivetrain from the start, w/o the need to fiddle with anything. So I guess I need a 10s
> drivetrain after all. Of course, who knows how this will work in reality, and I might have to go
> with a Shimano cassette in the end, but since the 10s will work with that just fine, as you say,
> it's clearly the way to go either way.

I can affirm that the American Classic ten cassette for Shimano-format cassette bodies fits well and
shifts fine. They're made in 11~23, 12~23 amd 12~25.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Kovie]

On a Mavic Cosmos in a Campy 10s drivetrain?

--
Kovie [email protected]

"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Kovie wrote:
>
> > Thanks Robert. This might be moot actually, as I just got an email from Colorado Cyclist, where
> > I bought my Cosmos, saying that the American
Classic
> > conversion cassettes WILL work with these wheels. I went to the American Classic site to confirm
> > this and it seems that the key is to use the
spacer
> > that came with the Cosmos. These cassettes come in 10s, which would give
me
> > a "real" Campy 10s drivetrain from the start, w/o the need to fiddle
with
> > anything. So I guess I need a 10s drivetrain after all. Of course, who
knows
> > how this will work in reality, and I might have to go with a Shimano cassette in the end, but
> > since the 10s will work with that just fine, as
you
> > say, it's clearly the way to go either way.
>
> I can affirm that the American Classic ten cassette for Shimano-format cassette bodies fits well
> and shifts fine. They're made in 11~23, 12~23 amd 12~25.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971