Campy Hubs

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Robert Strickla, Jun 30, 2003.

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  1. I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should spend
    twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp hub or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is
    there a big enough quality difference to warrant spending more? Thanks in advance.

    Rob Strickland
     
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  2. Jon

    Jon Guest

    If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

    Jon

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should
    > spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp
    hub
    > or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
    > spending more? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Rob Strickland
     
  3. On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:47:25 +0000, Jon wrote:

    > If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

    Umm. Why?

    There are two things a rear hub does: roll and weigh. OK, it has to be strong enough to not break,
    but basically you are paying for smooth rolling and light weight, within the range of a durable
    component.

    I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
    low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there are
    and were exceptions, but that is basically the idea, that and the substitution of lighter,
    higher-tech materials for the higher priced stuff. The weight difference is not significant except
    for elite time-trialers or hill-climbers, and I think the smoothness will be comparable, also -- and
    way below the level that would effect performance.

    I have had one Campy hub not work well for me. It was a Record hub that had been abused by a former
    owner, and was not worth repairing, it turned out. I replaced it with another second-hand hub, this
    time a Chorus or Veloce, I think, and have had no trouble.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
    and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson
     
  4. "Jon" <[email protected]> writes:

    >If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

    >Jon

    After some reflection, I think this is good advice.

    If you ride a lot, probably the brakes are your biggest safety upgrade. If you ride a lot, probably
    the rear hub is your most important durability upgrade.

    The only serious part i've ever had snap on one of my bicycles, was the all-steel bolted rear axle -
    on a decent-quality steel high-flange hub. The rear hub carries at least 60% of the weight of the
    rider. When you pay extra for hubs, you usually get better manufacturing tolerances (long life),
    hardened heat-treated shells (long life), and maybe even higher quality bearings (longer life), etc.

    In other words, the extra money might actually make the part last so long that you get a cheaper set
    of hubs, per mile, if you buy quality.

    Just don't pay TOO MUCH extra, whereup you get titanium or carbon crap that flexes and seizes and
    wears out before its time is due.

    - Don
     
  5. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Do you do your own service maintenance? The Centaur -> Record hubs are a dream to re-pack
    and adjust!

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should
    > spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp hub or settle for the Veloce at half the
    > price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant spending more? Thanks in advance.
     
  6. On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:42:16 +0000, Donald Gillies wrote:

    > "Jon" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >>If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.
    >
    >>Jon
    >
    > After some reflection, I think this is good advice.

    I disagree.
    >
    > If you ride a lot, probably the brakes are your biggest safety upgrade.

    Of course, more expensive brakes does not really mean better-stopping brakes.

    > If you ride a lot, probably the rear hub is your most important durability upgrade.

    Lots of parts are more fragile than a modern cassette hub.
    >
    > The only serious part i've ever had snap on one of my bicycles, was the all-steel bolted rear axle
    > - on a decent-quality steel high-flange hub.

    This is a freewheel hub, no doubt. Frankly, a high-quality steel hub has not been manufactured in a
    very long time. The axle you broke was probably older than most readers of this newsgroup, if it was
    "decent-quality", which suggests it gave good service.

    Freewheel hubs often caused broken axles -- especially for heavier riders and loaded tourists. This
    is a thing of the past with cassette hubs, and the OP was deciding between two modern cassette hubs,
    where axle breakage is near zero.

    The rear hub carries at least 60% of the weight of the rider.
    > When you pay extra for hubs, you usually get better manufacturing tolerances (long life), hardened
    > heat-treated shells (long life), and maybe even higher quality bearings (longer life), etc.

    You also pay, through the nose usually, for light weight. But the shells are hardly hardened -- the
    cups are separate pressed-in pieces. And good bearings are less than $.05 apiece.

    All Campy hubs of a given design (which is changing now and the fancier design is migrating down to
    cheaper models) have exactly the same bearings, cups and cones, and axles.

    Many parts are more of a durability issue than hubs. Forgetting rims, tires, cables, brake blocks,
    chains, cogs, and chainrings, all of which are subject to regular wear and need to be replaced
    frequently, probably the pedals or rear derailleur are the most subject to failure, followed by any
    bearings that are not servicable, such as bottom brackets.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
    and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson
     
  7. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:
    > I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
    > low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there are
    > and were exceptions

    Yes, and the hubs in question are exceptions. When such a specific question is asked, perhaps _some_
    specific knowledge might help the OP........

    > , but that is basically the idea, that and the substitution of lighter, higher-tech materials for
    > the higher priced stuff.

    In this case, it's not just the materials of some small parts. The whole design is very different.
    Current Veloce uses maintenance-free cartridge bearings for the rear and a regular cheap-type hub
    for the front. Centaur's use oversized aluminium axles with a special threadless cone feature: all
    parts are replaceable and easy to adjust & maintain.

    > The weight difference is not significant except for elite time-trialers or hill-climbers

    The difference is 181 grams - which is a lot for a pair of hubs. Can't build a whole lightweight
    bike (if that's what one wants to do) with the attitude that the weight of each individual component
    is insignificant.

    ~PB
     
  8. On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 03:09:59 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:

    > David L. Johnson wrote:
    >> I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
    >> low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there are
    >> and were exceptions
    >
    > Yes, and the hubs in question are exceptions. When such a specific question is asked, perhaps
    > _some_ specific knowledge might help the OP........

    Actually, it does apply to the hubs. The previous design was used in all 8-speed and early 9-speed
    hubs. Record 10-speed started the new design, which has now migrated down a notch.

    > In this case, it's not just the materials of some small parts. The whole design is very different.
    > Current Veloce uses maintenance-free cartridge bearings for the rear and a regular cheap-type hub
    > for the front.

    Frankly, I prefer the "cheap-type" hubs. What you really mean is ball-and-cone design, which is not
    only easily serviced, but in many ways superior to "maintenance-free" cartridges. Way #1 is that the
    designation "maintenance-free" belongs in quotes.

    > Centaur's use oversized aluminium axles with a special threadless cone feature: all parts are
    > replaceable and easy to adjust & maintain.

    I tried last year to replace the cups on my Record hub of the same design. Not available. Yes, in
    theory they are replacable....

    > The difference is 181 grams - which is a lot for a pair of hubs.

    The OP was talking about a single hub, not a pair.

    > Can't build a whole lightweight bike (if that's what one wants to do) with the attitude that the
    > weight of each individual component is insignificant.

    True, but a net of 100g is not worth all that much extra money.

    Since the Record hub I had was trashed when I got it, it is perhaps not a fair comparison, but my
    experience with it was not all that favorable. The "special threadless cone" seemed to me to be a
    particularly cheap design, being secured by a split sleeve that needs some attention to get aligned
    properly. The cups and cones in general were very lightweight, but the flipside of that is that they
    are flimsy. The bearings themselves are very small, which is not the best design choice, and because
    the cups are reduced to the least possible cross-section it would be impossible to use loose balls.
    You have to use the bearing retainer.

    For me, the best features of these hubs are their weight (they are light) and the ease in final
    adjustment. But I've been adjusting cup&cone bearings for a while, and it is not rocket science.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
    you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
    lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
    Hermann Goering
     
  9. robert-<< What I want to know is if I should spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp hub
    or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
    spending more? >><BR><BR>

    Not quality but weight. The Centaur/Chorus/Centaur hub design is a nice one...but each will make for
    a nice wheel...if built well..

    Don't get the 'half the price' thing tho-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. > robert-<< What I want to know is if I should spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp
    hub
    > or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
    > spending more? >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Not quality but weight. The Centaur/Chorus/Centaur hub design is a nice one...but each will make
    > for a nice wheel...if built well..
    >
    > Don't get the 'half the price' thing tho-
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

    That's because you're thinking Colorado prices. I live in Germany and the best price I've been able
    to find is 51 Euro for the Veloce rear 9/10 speed hub and 103 Euro for the Centaur rear 9/10 speed
    hub. Is Centaur worth the extra 50 bucks if weight isn't an issue? Thanks.

    Rob Strickland
     
  11. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:

    >>> I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
    >>> low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there
    >>> are and were exceptions
    >>
    >> Yes, and the hubs in question are exceptions. When such a specific question is asked, perhaps
    >> _some_ specific knowledge might help the OP........
    >
    > Actually, it does apply to the hubs.

    But that's misleading in this case because the OP was specifically asking about Centaur versus
    Veloce. The Record technology has not moved down to Veloce yet.

    >> In this case, it's not just the materials of some small parts. The whole design is very
    >> different. Current Veloce uses maintenance-free cartridge bearings for the rear and a regular
    >> cheap-type hub for the front.
    >
    > Frankly, I prefer the "cheap-type" hubs. What you really mean is ball-and-cone design, which is
    > not only easily serviced, but in many ways superior to "maintenance-free" cartridges. Way #1 is
    > that the designation "maintenance-free" belongs in quotes.

    No, I don't mean that at all. I mean Veloce FRONT hubs (ball-and-cone) are of similar quality
    to some of the cheapest and poorest unbranded hubs. Centaur hubs (which are also ball-and-cone)
    are superior.

    I happen to think the REAR Veloce is ok and good value for money (Centaur is superior but costs much
    more). I'm am still using a Mirage (same design) on one bike that is a few years old and still runs
    perfectly.

    ~PB
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > But that's misleading in this case because the OP was specifically asking about Centaur versus
    > Veloce. The Record technology has not moved down to Veloce yet.

    ps......But fair enough to say Centaur uses Record technology.

    ~PB
     
  13. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should
    > spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp
    hub
    > or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
    > spending more? Thanks in advance.

    The Veloce uses cartridge bearings which seem reasonable in tghe application and haven't been a
    problem in the five or six years since they changed. Centaur uses Campagnolo's new big bearing
    system. That bearing is the same caged ball unit for front and rear on all hubs Centaur and up. They
    are a dream to service and adjust, definitely the best loose-ball system I know of.

    Centaur has one small foible. The clever hub adjusters lock with a small 3mm allen bolt on Chorus
    and Record but Centaurs come with a Phillips head screw. Get an allen bolt for that and adustment
    is a snap.

    So even though the new Campagnolo system is seductive, cartridge bearings make some sense in a
    bicycle wheel. Both designs are nice.

    I'm curious about your quoted prices. Here they are $68 and $116 ( not $146) respectively
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  14. On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:40:21 -0500, "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'm curious about your quoted prices. Here they are $68 and $116 ( not $146) respectively

    Checking some random mailorder bike shop here in .nl, a centaur vs veloce hub*set* is 159 versus 69
    euros, or somewhere else in .de rears only 103 and 51 euros respectively. European pricing does in
    fact appear to put centaur hubs at pretty much twice the price of veloce.

    Jasper
     
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