Campy Nuovo Gum Brake Hoods?

[still me]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:54:58 -0700, "* * Chas"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>http://cgi.ebay.com/Brake-lever-hoo...3QQihZ004QQcategoryZ56197QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>

Oh, thanks... I found those and dissed them in an earlier part of the
thread for excessive shipping. If I don't find something else I might
be forced to buy but I dislike it when people gouge on shipping.

>Here's some more of the same black hoods:
>
>CARLTON (Weinmann) black brake lever hoods ( I didn't catch the price on
>these (WOW!) when I first passed over them)
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/CARLTON-Weinman...1QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Yeah... I know that guy too. He has a lot of nice stuff, used to be
based in Europe. Most of it is listed at high prices, but he trolls
some stuff through at lower prices and you can get a good deal now and
then.

>Here's a set of gum hoods that look interesting also:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Stanard...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
>

Now that's looking good... maybe that bike would be OK in Gum


Thanks,

 

[Donald Gillies]

still me <[email protected]> writes:

>>Here's some more of the same black hoods:
>>
>>CARLTON (Weinmann) black brake lever hoods ( I didn't catch the price on
>>these (WOW!) when I first passed over them)
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/CARLTON-Weinman...1QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Banana Brain is Baron & Cecile Corpuz, who have recently moved back to
Santa Barbara to establish 'Renaissance Cycles' back in the states.
They used to based in the Netherlands and own a Winnebego and would
take trips all over Europe to clean out old bike shops of their
vintage goods.

There is/was no better source of NOS goods than Baron & Cecile, but a
lot of Europe (especially Belgium etc.) has been cleaned out of the
1970's stuff.

I do agree that $54 for NOS black Carlton hoods is way too high, and I
have told Baron about this a few months ago. Unfortunately, he thinks
in terms of Colnago prices whenever he has a bike-maker specific part.

If interested, I have some black hoods that I would sell for $13 +
actual shipping costs. They are absolutely identical to the gum hoods
in your email message, e.g. like these ones :

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-...ern-brake-lever-hood-White--per-pair-5866.htm

except that the color is black. Quantities are limited as I bought
these as spares for my own Carlton bikes. Photos are available if
anyone is interested.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

"* * Chas" <[email protected]> writes:

>Brake lever hoods Weinmann black NOS

>http://cgi.ebay.com/Brake-lever-hoo...3QQihZ004QQcategoryZ56197QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$30 for that set of hoods is insane, when other ebay sellers charged
less than $10 for the same thing in different colors. I will sell
some of my black hoods (EXACTLY that model) for $13+s/h, buyer pays
actual shipping, payment by check is accepted, photos available,
contact me by email for details.

Just another example of Cyclart baiting the market to drum up business
in their repaint shop, not because they have any actual interest in
selling any used parts...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Apr 20, 10:17 am, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> still me <[email protected]> writes:
> >>Here's some more of the same black hoods:
>
> >>CARLTON (Weinmann) black brake lever hoods ( I didn't catch the price on
> >>these (WOW!) when I first passed over them)
>
> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/CARLTON-Weinmann-black-brake-lever-hoods-RARE_W0Q...
>
> Banana Brainis Baron & Cecile Corpuz, who have recently moved back to
> Santa Barbara to establish 'Renaissance Cycles' back in the states.
> They used to based in the Netherlands and own a Winnebego and would
> take trips all over Europe to clean out old bike shops of their
> vintage goods.
>
> There is/was no better source of NOS goods than Baron & Cecile, but a
> lot of Europe (especially Belgium etc.) has been cleaned out of the
> 1970's stuff.
>
> I do agree that $54 for NOS black Carlton hoods is way too high, and I
> have told Baron about this a few months ago. Unfortunately, he thinks
> in terms of Colnago prices whenever he has a bike-maker specific part.

Ugh. Had a REALLY bad experience with them this month.

I bid on a 10-pack of NOS Wolber tires - the listing said shipping was
free, and the minimum bid worked out to $8 a tire, Seemed like it was
worth a shot.

I'd bought a seatpost from them last year, and it took them two weeks
to ship it, but since I was waiting on my frame to come back from the
paint shop, it didn't seem that big of a deal. This time, I noticed
they said Please allow 10 days for handling,plus USPS transit time.
After 3 weeks passed, I sent them mail asking for a status update, and
they replied with a paypal request for $28 to cover shipping.

Naturally, I balked, emailing them a screenshot where it said free
shipping, and they replied that it was a mistake, with all our
listings how could we possibly be expected to have caught that, and by
the way, we've already sent them and we were crazy to trust you, our
customer, to do the right thing.

Having hit my Catholic guilt, I went ahead and paid it, but told them
I'd be leaving negative feedback. No reply. I gave it a few days.
Today, I left the feedback, like I said I would. "Listing-"FREE S&H"-
3wks later, no tires, got a bill for $28S&H. Unprofessional."

That was followed by them refunding my $28. That was good. Made me
feel bad about the feedback I'd left.

What was not so good was the email that followed:
"Hey!.........Yo!..Yo..Free shipping? Think we're stupid to send this
item S/H PREPAID!!....Be real DUMBO!!.......Discription
STATES!.........QUOAT WILL FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BC.......And the gang!!........Not so stupid!!"

I'm no longer feeling bad about the feedback I left.

-Hank

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Apr 20, 10:17 am, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> > Banana Brainis Baron & Cecile Corpuz, who have recently moved back
> > to Santa Barbara to establish 'Renaissance Cycles' back in the
> > states. They used to based in the Netherlands and own a Winnebego
> > and would take trips all over Europe to clean out old bike shops of
> > their vintage goods.
> >
> > There is/was no better source of NOS goods than Baron & Cecile, but
> > a lot of Europe (especially Belgium etc.) has been cleaned out of
> > the 1970's stuff.
> >
> > I do agree that $54 for NOS black Carlton hoods is way too high,
> > and I have told Baron about this a few months ago. Unfortunately,
> > he thinks in terms of Colnago prices whenever he has a bike-maker
> > specific part.
>
> Ugh. Had a REALLY bad experience with them this month.
>
> I bid on a 10-pack of NOS Wolber tires - the listing said shipping
> was free, and the minimum bid worked out to $8 a tire, Seemed like it
> was worth a shot.
>
> I'd bought a seatpost from them last year, and it took them two weeks
> to ship it, but since I was waiting on my frame to come back from the
> paint shop, it didn't seem that big of a deal. This time, I noticed
> they said Please allow 10 days for handling,plus USPS transit time.
> After 3 weeks passed, I sent them mail asking for a status update,
> and they replied with a paypal request for $28 to cover shipping.
>
> Naturally, I balked, emailing them a screenshot where it said free
> shipping, and they replied that it was a mistake, with all our
> listings how could we possibly be expected to have caught that, and
> by the way, we've already sent them and we were crazy to trust you,
> our customer, to do the right thing.

Well, it's their listing and it creates a legal contract, the terms of
which they have to adhere to. If they screwed up the terms, that's not
the buyer's problem. If it says free shipping it's free shipping.
Maybe they need to put up fewer listings so they can pay better
attention.

> Having hit my Catholic guilt, I went ahead and paid it, but told them
> I'd be leaving negative feedback. No reply. I gave it a few days.
> Today, I left the feedback, like I said I would. "Listing-"FREE S&H"-
> 3wks later, no tires, got a bill for $28S&H. Unprofessional."

You were right to do so.

> That was followed by them refunding my $28. That was good. Made me
> feel bad about the feedback I'd left.

Shouldn't have made you feel bad IMHO. They could append a comment to
your feedback to they effect that they refunded your money, sorry for
the mistake, etc.

> What was not so good was the email that followed:
> "Hey!.........Yo!..Yo..Free shipping? Think we're stupid to send this
> item S/H PREPAID!!....Be real DUMBO!!.......Discription
> STATES!.........QUOAT WILL FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> BC.......And the gang!!........Not so stupid!!"
>
> I'm no longer feeling bad about the feedback I left.

"Customer service" is a notion sadly lacking in virtual businesses.
They don't see the customer face-to-face and it's all anonymous. Plus
virtual business owners may think they have access to an unlimited
community and that a few ******-off customers aren't going to affect
their business, whereas a brick-and-mortar business is less likely to
think that way.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jun 14, 12:38 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 10:17 am, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > still me <[email protected]> writes:
> > >>Here's some more of the same black hoods:
>
> > >>CARLTON (Weinmann) black brake lever hoods ( I didn't catch the price on
> > >>these (WOW!) when I first passed over them)
>
> > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/CARLTON-Weinmann-black-brake-lever-hoods-RARE_W0Q...
>
> > Banana Brainis Baron & Cecile Corpuz, who have recently moved back to
> > Santa Barbara to establish 'Renaissance Cycles' back in the states.
> > They used to based in the Netherlands and own a Winnebego and would
> > take trips all over Europe to clean out old bike shops of their
> > vintage goods.
>
> > There is/was no better source of NOS goods than Baron & Cecile, but a
> > lot of Europe (especially Belgium etc.) has been cleaned out of the
> > 1970's stuff.
>
> > I do agree that $54 for NOS black Carlton hoods is way too high, and I
> > have told Baron about this a few months ago. Unfortunately, he thinks
> > in terms of Colnago prices whenever he has a bike-maker specific part.
>
> Ugh. Had a REALLY bad experience with them this month.
>
> I bid on a 10-pack of NOS Wolber tires - the listing said shipping was
> free, and the minimum bid worked out to $8 a tire, Seemed like it was
> worth a shot.
>
> I'd bought a seatpost from them last year, and it took them two weeks
> to ship it, but since I was waiting on my frame to come back from the
> paint shop, it didn't seem that big of a deal. This time, I noticed
> they said Please allow 10 days for handling,plus USPS transit time.
> After 3 weeks passed, I sent them mail asking for a status update, and
> they replied with a paypal request for $28 to cover shipping.
>
> Naturally, I balked, emailing them a screenshot where it said free
> shipping, and they replied that it was a mistake, with all our
> listings how could we possibly be expected to have caught that, and by
> the way, we've already sent them and we were crazy to trust you, our
> customer, to do the right thing.
>
> Having hit my Catholic guilt, I went ahead and paid it, but told them
> I'd be leaving negative feedback. No reply. I gave it a few days.
> Today, I left the feedback, like I said I would. "Listing-"FREE S&H"-
> 3wks later, no tires, got a bill for $28S&H. Unprofessional."
>
> That was followed by them refunding my $28. That was good. Made me
> feel bad about the feedback I'd left.
>
> What was not so good was the email that followed:
> "Hey!.........Yo!..Yo..Free shipping? Think we're stupid to send this
> item S/H PREPAID!!....Be real DUMBO!!.......Discription
> STATES!.........QUOAT WILL FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> BC.......And the gang!!........Not so stupid!!"
>
> I'm no longer feeling bad about the feedback I left.
>

This surprises me. I, and several people I know, have done business
with Baron & Cecile (aka, "Banana Brain") over the years, always with
honestly described product and good communication and service. The
worst they've ever done is been a little slow to ship, but they do
warn about that. I suspect this is an aberration, not the norm. (And
yes, sometimes the asking prices are high, but buying the stuff is the
buyer's choice.)

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jun 14, 11:28 am, Ozark Bicycle
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 12:38 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 10:17 am, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
>
> > > still me <[email protected]> writes:
> > > >>Here's some more of the same black hoods:
>
> > > >>CARLTON (Weinmann) black brake lever hoods ( I didn't catch the price on
> > > >>these (WOW!) when I first passed over them)
>
> > > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/CARLTON-Weinmann-black-brake-lever-hoods-RARE_W0Q...
>
> > > Banana Brainis Baron & Cecile Corpuz, who have recently moved back to
> > > Santa Barbara to establish 'Renaissance Cycles' back in the states.
> > > They used to based in the Netherlands and own a Winnebego and would
> > > take trips all over Europe to clean out old bike shops of their
> > > vintage goods.
>
> > > There is/was no better source of NOS goods than Baron & Cecile, but a
> > > lot of Europe (especially Belgium etc.) has been cleaned out of the
> > > 1970's stuff.
>
> > > I do agree that $54 for NOS black Carlton hoods is way too high, and I
> > > have told Baron about this a few months ago. Unfortunately, he thinks
> > > in terms of Colnago prices whenever he has a bike-maker specific part.
>
> > Ugh. Had a REALLY bad experience with them this month.
>
> > I bid on a 10-pack of NOS Wolber tires - the listing said shipping was
> > free, and the minimum bid worked out to $8 a tire, Seemed like it was
> > worth a shot.
>
> > I'd bought a seatpost from them last year, and it took them two weeks
> > to ship it, but since I was waiting on my frame to come back from the
> > paint shop, it didn't seem that big of a deal. This time, I noticed
> > they said Please allow 10 days for handling,plus USPS transit time.
> > After 3 weeks passed, I sent them mail asking for a status update, and
> > they replied with a paypal request for $28 to cover shipping.
>
> > Naturally, I balked, emailing them a screenshot where it said free
> > shipping, and they replied that it was a mistake, with all our
> > listings how could we possibly be expected to have caught that, and by
> > the way, we've already sent them and we were crazy to trust you, our
> > customer, to do the right thing.
>
> > Having hit my Catholic guilt, I went ahead and paid it, but told them
> > I'd be leaving negative feedback. No reply. I gave it a few days.
> > Today, I left the feedback, like I said I would. "Listing-"FREE S&H"-
> > 3wks later, no tires, got a bill for $28S&H. Unprofessional."
>
> > That was followed by them refunding my $28. That was good. Made me
> > feel bad about the feedback I'd left.
>
> > What was not so good was the email that followed:
> > "Hey!.........Yo!..Yo..Free shipping? Think we're stupid to send this
> > item S/H PREPAID!!....Be real DUMBO!!.......Discription
> > STATES!.........QUOAT WILL FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > BC.......And the gang!!........Not so stupid!!"
>
> > I'm no longer feeling bad about the feedback I left.
>
> This surprises me. I, and several people I know, have done business
> with Baron & Cecile (aka, "Banana Brain") over the years, always with
> honestly described product and good communication and service. The
> worst they've ever done is been a little slow to ship, but they do
> warn about that. I suspect this is an aberration, not the norm. (And
> yes, sometimes the asking prices are high, but buying the stuff is the
> buyer's choice.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

In fairness, I think both the original mis-listing and the slow
communication are both due to having overextended themselves. In my
emails with them, their tone was very hurried and exasperated - like
they hadn't taken the time to think about what a substantive
difference it would make to the total transaction. And, like Baron
said in his tirade he sent me, it does say that they will send a quote
for shipping. But the shipping info at the top, next to the bid, said
"Free," and the invoice I received via email (which I now realize must
have been automated) listed a 0.00 shipping charge. I had no reason to
think that that _wasn't_ the shipping quote, especially when I heard
nothing from them for the next three weeks.

I sympathized with their situation, which is why I did end up paying
the charge (which they refunded), but really, is there any excuse for
the abusive language I got in return?

I guess in the end, it's a moot point, because I won't buy from them
again, and they'd probably cancel any bids I made, anyway, if I tried.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:

> In fairness, I think both the original mis-listing and the slow
> communication are both due to having overextended themselves. In my
> emails with them, their tone was very hurried and exasperated - like
> they hadn't taken the time to think about what a substantive
> difference it would make to the total transaction. And, like Baron
> said in his tirade he sent me, it does say that they will send a
> quote for shipping. But the shipping info at the top, next to the
> bid, said "Free," and the invoice I received via email (which I now
> realize must have been automated) listed a 0.00 shipping charge. I
> had no reason to think that that _wasn't_ the shipping quote,
> especially when I heard nothing from them for the next three weeks.
>
> I sympathized with their situation, which is why I did end up paying
> the charge (which they refunded), but really, is there any excuse for
> the abusive language I got in return?

You're being overly fair. They screwed up and it's their problem. They
said "free shipping," the invoice said "free shipping," and that's that.
My hunch is they meant "free shipping" as a ploy to stimulate bidding
and when they paid the bill at the shipper's they said "holy ****, I
didn't know it'd be that expensive. Let's make that guy pay us for
shipping."

 

[Mark]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In fairness, I think both the original mis-listing and the slow
>> communication are both due to having overextended themselves. In my
>> emails with them, their tone was very hurried and exasperated - like
>> they hadn't taken the time to think about what a substantive
>> difference it would make to the total transaction. And, like Baron
>> said in his tirade he sent me, it does say that they will send a
>> quote for shipping. But the shipping info at the top, next to the
>> bid, said "Free," and the invoice I received via email (which I now
>> realize must have been automated) listed a 0.00 shipping charge. I
>> had no reason to think that that _wasn't_ the shipping quote,
>> especially when I heard nothing from them for the next three weeks.
>>
>> I sympathized with their situation, which is why I did end up paying
>> the charge (which they refunded), but really, is there any excuse for
>> the abusive language I got in return?
>
> You're being overly fair. They screwed up and it's their problem. They
> said "free shipping," the invoice said "free shipping," and that's that.
> My hunch is they meant "free shipping" as a ploy to stimulate bidding
> and when they paid the bill at the shipper's they said "holy ****, I
> didn't know it'd be that expensive. Let's make that guy pay us for
> shipping."

Doubt they didn't know, since they do a lot of business. I think they
just screwed up. Remember, "never attribute to malice what can be
explained by incompetence." However, once they screwed up, they should
have owned up. It's enlightening to see their responses to negative
feedback on Ebay. Makes me *far* less inclined to deal with them.

Mark J.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jun 14, 5:26 pm, Mark <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> In fairness, I think both the original mis-listing and the slow
> >> communication are both due to having overextended themselves. In my
> >> emails with them, their tone was very hurried and exasperated - like
> >> they hadn't taken the time to think about what a substantive
> >> difference it would make to the total transaction. And, like Baron
> >> said in his tirade he sent me, it does say that they will send a
> >> quote for shipping. But the shipping info at the top, next to the
> >> bid, said "Free," and the invoice I received via email (which I now
> >> realize must have been automated) listed a 0.00 shipping charge. I
> >> had no reason to think that that _wasn't_ the shipping quote,
> >> especially when I heard nothing from them for the next three weeks.
>
> >> I sympathized with their situation, which is why I did end up paying
> >> the charge (which they refunded), but really, is there any excuse for
> >> the abusive language I got in return?
>
> > You're being overly fair. They screwed up and it's their problem. They
> > said "free shipping," the invoice said "free shipping," and that's that.
> > My hunch is they meant "free shipping" as a ploy to stimulate bidding
> > and when they paid the bill at the shipper's they said "holy ****, I
> > didn't know it'd be that expensive. Let's make that guy pay us for
> > shipping."
>
> Doubt they didn't know, since they do a lot of business. I think they
> just screwed up. Remember, "never attribute to malice what can be
> explained by incompetence." However, once they screwed up, they should
> have owned up. It's enlightening to see their responses to negative
> feedback on Ebay. Makes me *far* less inclined to deal with them.
>

Of course, the fact that they refunded the shipping charges,
apparently without be asked to do so and *after* the negative FB had
been posted, should be taken into account.

 

[Donald Gillies]

I have nothing but good things to say about Baron & Cecile. Well,
actually, they are sorta slow shipping stuff sometimes, especially if
you say that you want to buy more stuff from them. But without them,
the hobby of vintage bicycle restoration would be IMPOSSIBLY difficult.

The consumer laws are really skewed in favor of the customer these
days. Warrant of merchantability, credit cards allowing you to
reverse charges, ebay disputes, paypal disputes, etc., let me tell you
this : we customers are truly spoiled. There is basically no way to
lose money other than by throwing it away intentionally.

Baron & Cecile are honest people, and honest people make mistakes.
There is such a thing as dealing in "good faith" on an ebay purchase.
If you were unhappy paying $28 shipping just send them an email and
back out of the deal. I have accepted the reverse from them : they
backed out of a deal when they couldn't find a part. But don't pay
the $28 shipping, then take revenge by trashing them without giving
them a chance to clear their name.

Like everyone, people get hot-headed when you criticize them in public.

Ebay is a system to set up deals. No matter how hard we try to be
perfect, sometimes the deal setup with Ebay is too bad and one side
must back out. Ebay pressures both sides to go through with the deal,
which is evil. Don't let this pressure cause you to trash an honest
businessmen, or an honest customer, whichever the case may be.

I have nothing but good things to say about Baron & Cecile.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jun 14, 6:48 pm, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> I have nothing but good things to say about Baron & Cecile. Well,
> actually, they are sorta slow shipping stuff sometimes, especially if
> you say that you want to buy more stuff from them. But without them,
> the hobby of vintage bicycle restoration would be IMPOSSIBLY difficult.
>
> The consumer laws are really skewed in favor of the customer these
> days. Warrant of merchantability, credit cards allowing you to
> reverse charges, ebay disputes, paypal disputes, etc., let me tell you
> this : we customers are truly spoiled. There is basically no way to
> lose money other than by throwing it away intentionally.
>
> Baron & Cecile are honest people, and honest people make mistakes.
> There is such a thing as dealing in "good faith" on an ebay purchase.
> If you were unhappy paying $28 shipping just send them an email and
> back out of the deal. I have accepted the reverse from them : they
> backed out of a deal when they couldn't find a part. But don't pay
> the $28 shipping, then take revenge by trashing them without giving
> them a chance to clear their name.
>
> Like everyone, people get hot-headed when you criticize them in public.
>
> Ebay is a system to set up deals. No matter how hard we try to be
> perfect, sometimes the deal setup with Ebay is too bad and one side
> must back out. Ebay pressures both sides to go through with the deal,
> which is evil. Don't let this pressure cause you to trash an honest
> businessmen, or an honest customer, whichever the case may be.
>
> I have nothing but good things to say about Baron & Cecile.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA


As Don says, Baron & Cecile are "good people". I understand Hank's
frustration, but I really do think his situation was very much the
exception. I would not not hesitate to do business with Baron & Cecile
again.

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jun 14, 4:48 pm, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> I have nothing but good things to say about Baron & Cecile. Well,
> actually, they are sorta slow shipping stuff sometimes, especially if
> you say that you want to buy more stuff from them. But without them,
> the hobby of vintage bicycle restoration would be IMPOSSIBLY difficult.
>
> The consumer laws are really skewed in favor of the customer these
> days. Warrant of merchantability, credit cards allowing you to
> reverse charges, ebay disputes, paypal disputes, etc., let me tell you
> this : we customers are truly spoiled. There is basically no way to
> lose money other than by throwing it away intentionally.
>
> Baron & Cecile are honest people, and honest people make mistakes.
> There is such a thing as dealing in "good faith" on an ebay purchase.
> If you were unhappy paying $28 shipping just send them an email and
> back out of the deal. I have accepted the reverse from them : they
> backed out of a deal when they couldn't find a part. But don't pay
> the $28 shipping, then take revenge by trashing them without giving
> them a chance to clear their name.

I didn't have much of a choice. They'd already shipped them, then sent
me an email saying, oh, by the way, you owe us another $28. If they
hadn't have shipped them already, I would have asked to cancel the
sale, which I think they would have. Since they'd already shipped
them, the horse was already out of the barn. I don't doubt that they
were acting in good faith, but I was acting in good faith, too, but
was berated as dishonest by both of them in mails they sent me after I
balked at paying the charge. Having worked many years in mail order
customer service, I've been in their situation a few times, and
occasionally eating a shipping charge was part of doing business. I
can imagine it's a little harder to swallow, though when you're the
owner. But being the owner, you should also realize that a returning
customer is usually worth much more than that shipping charge.

It was an unfortunate misunderstanding that made a win-win very
difficult. I tried to come to a compromise with them, but they were
already at the name-calling stage. I told them I was considering
leaving such feedback, and waited five days for a response before I
did. As for the refund, I have a feeling that if he could have, he
would have thrown it on the ground at my feet. In loose nickels. That
he'd spat upon.

>
> Like everyone, people get hot-headed when you criticize them in public.

They were being hot-headed LONG before it was public.

Sorry if you felt uncomfortable about me venting over your friends. It
was just a very, very frustrating experience that I hope I've learned
from, and I hope they have, too. Like you say, we've been spoiled, and
I was expecting another NashPerGo computer-automated shopping
experience, and sometimes, stuff happens when actual humans are
involved.

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jun 14, 6:39 pm, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 4:48 pm, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have nothing but good things to say about Baron & Cecile. Well,
> > actually, they are sorta slow shipping stuff sometimes, especially if
> > you say that you want to buy more stuff from them. But without them,
> > the hobby of vintage bicycle restoration would be IMPOSSIBLY difficult.
>
> > The consumer laws are really skewed in favor of the customer these
> > days. Warrant of merchantability, credit cards allowing you to
> > reverse charges, ebay disputes, paypal disputes, etc., let me tell you
> > this : we customers are truly spoiled. There is basically no way to
> > lose money other than by throwing it away intentionally.
>
> > Baron & Cecile are honest people, and honest people make mistakes.
> > There is such a thing as dealing in "good faith" on an ebay purchase.
> > If you were unhappy paying $28 shipping just send them an email and
> > back out of the deal. I have accepted the reverse from them : they
> > backed out of a deal when they couldn't find a part. But don't pay
> > the $28 shipping, then take revenge by trashing them without giving
> > them a chance to clear their name.
>
> I didn't have much of a choice. They'd already shipped them, then sent
> me an email saying, oh, by the way, you owe us another $28. If they
> hadn't have shipped them already, I would have asked to cancel the
> sale, which I think they would have. Since they'd already shipped
> them, the horse was already out of the barn. I don't doubt that they
> were acting in good faith, but I was acting in good faith, too, but
> was berated as dishonest by both of them in mails they sent me after I
> balked at paying the charge. Having worked many years in mail order
> customer service, I've been in their situation a few times, and
> occasionally eating a shipping charge was part of doing business. I
> can imagine it's a little harder to swallow, though when you're the
> owner. But being the owner, you should also realize that a returning
> customer is usually worth much more than that shipping charge.
>
> It was an unfortunate misunderstanding that made a win-win very
> difficult. I tried to come to a compromise with them, but they were
> already at the name-calling stage. I told them I was considering
> leaving such feedback, and waited five days for a response before I
> did. As for the refund, I have a feeling that if he could have, he
> would have thrown it on the ground at my feet. In loose nickels. That
> he'd spat upon.
>
>
>
> > Like everyone, people get hot-headed when you criticize them in public.
>
> They were being hot-headed LONG before it was public.
>
> Sorry if you felt uncomfortable about me venting over your friends. It
> was just a very, very frustrating experience that I hope I've learned
> from, and I hope they have, too. Like you say, we've been spoiled, and
> I was expecting another NashPerGo computer-automated shopping
> experience, and sometimes, stuff happens when actual humans are
> involved.

And as a follow-up, because I received the refund, I've put in an
offer to withdraw the negative. I don't think that makes me a doormat,
but I wanted them to know that such an attitude towards service was
not without consequence.

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
Mark <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Doubt they didn't know, since they do a lot of business. I think they
> just screwed up. Remember, "never attribute to malice what can be
> explained by incompetence."

Incompetence is a form of malice. People of good will
hold themselves honor bound to perform competently. The
rest are looking to get by with the least expenditure
of work.

--
Michael Press

 

[still me]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:01:21 -0700, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>And as a follow-up, because I received the refund, I've put in an
>offer to withdraw the negative. I don't think that makes me a doormat,
>but I wanted them to know that such an attitude towards service was
>not without consequence.

I think you are being generous. They are responsible for their
listings. We can speculate on why it had $0. shipping, but it did and
you bid on the item in good faith. If a seller, especially an
experienced seller, makes a mistake, they should email the buyer,
explain the mistake as ask for forgiveness - or simply absorb it as a
cost of doing business. If the buyer balks even mildly at paying
after a friendly "request to correct", then the seller needs to do the
right thing, honor the contract, and suck it up.

There's never an excuse for the language you saw. In fact, since
they'd already refunded your money, it's clear that it was just a
childish outburst. In fact, all of their communications to you make it
clear that their customer service skills need serious. In fairness to
other people who will consider doing business with them in the future,
your feedback should reflect your experience.