Campy or Shimano?
- Thread starter Kaboom
- Start date
Both brand do good stuff, no doubt. I am campy as previously stated and there are exactly three things that turn me off shimano for road:
1. Brake lever also used for shifting, I hold all over the hoods with fingers
everywhere, do not like the lever being used for shifting.
2. One stop front der.
3. That friggin gear cable out from the hoods, just looks shite.
As you can see, hardly any remarks that turn shimano into shitmano, but enough to keep me campy. I am sure shimanoheads can produce something similar.
1. Brake lever also used for shifting, I hold all over the hoods with fingers
everywhere, do not like the lever being used for shifting.
2. One stop front der.
3. That friggin gear cable out from the hoods, just looks shite.
As you can see, hardly any remarks that turn shimano into shitmano, but enough to keep me campy. I am sure shimanoheads can produce something similar.
For me, it's not really a matter of where it's made ("Italian or Jap"), because those "Jap's" can also make some pretty awesome sh!t. So can the German's (Syntace), Swiss (DT Swiss, & Paiste cymbals! [I'm a drummer
], French (Mavic & Fondriest), American's (Cannondale), Dutch (Vredestein), British (Brooks & Raleigh), Belgian's (Empella & Merckx) - just to name a few off the top of my head. It's the thought that goes into the product and quality of build that I'm looking for. This 'nationalism' **** can go too far sometimes.
Then too, there is a lot to be said when it comes to cycling for the history and tradition of it all, and in that case certainly Campy has got an unassailable position on firms like Shimano.
But it could just as well have been the Japanese that did what Tullio Campagnolo did many years ago with all of his bicycle innovations and patents.
I buy and ride what I think works best for me, regardless of where it's from/who made it, or what the price range is, for example - notice in my signature below that I'm still using a 'lowly' Shimano Tiagra front der. and (not so lowly) TruVativ (Shimano 9v) crankset with a Campy-based drivetrain. Why? Because they happen to be functioning "just fine, thank you" with the Campy parts. Maybe later I'll replace them with Campy, or maybe not - if/when the need arises.(?)
If it's not the current "Flavor of the Month" darling amongst the Elite Cycling Snob crowd, then....Oh Well. No one else is riding my rig but me so I'm the one that needs to be satified with it.
Sorry to be late to the party everyone, but didn't really have an opinion to offer on this since I have never owned a Campy-equipped bike. But when I saw this thread, I decided to do my own unscientific survey.
Since I frequent several bike shops in my area, I started asking owners about their feelings about Campy vs Shimano. Initially, I always got the traditional politically correct response that suggested it was all personal preference. But when I pursued the topic further, I learned that 4 out of the 5 of those shop owners had Campy on their own bikes. And one of those Campy owners was dealer that doesn't even sell Campy except by special order.
I realize that in the grand scheme of things, that those are just 5 more opinions, but it has certainly caused me to think that perhaps it is time for a head to head comparison before buying another bike.
Since I frequent several bike shops in my area, I started asking owners about their feelings about Campy vs Shimano. Initially, I always got the traditional politically correct response that suggested it was all personal preference. But when I pursued the topic further, I learned that 4 out of the 5 of those shop owners had Campy on their own bikes. And one of those Campy owners was dealer that doesn't even sell Campy except by special order.
I realize that in the grand scheme of things, that those are just 5 more opinions, but it has certainly caused me to think that perhaps it is time for a head to head comparison before buying another bike.
These are my thoughts on the subject...
Shimano is very nice, especially the new stuff. It rivals Campy and even surpasses it in some aspects but I'm a diehard Campy man myself. For one, I have an "Italian" frame, so why put Jap stuff on it?
You can downshift like 3 or 4 gears with Campy at once, Shimano still doesn't do this. With a sturdy chain and rear cog, you can hammer and shift 2 gears at the same time, I found it marginal at best with Shimano because of the awkward hand position.
I really like the fact that the up and down shifters are separate (thumbs and fingers vs fingers and fingers) and the cables are hidden. If you're really good, you can route the cables perfectly on a non-indented bar to provide a nice flat palm surface after a decent cork ribbon job.
The Shimano drivetrain seems to be a little quieter, but I'm comparing pre-97 Campy to todays Shimano. My drivetrain needed minor adjustments while the cables stretched, but I haven't touched the barrel adjusters in 2 years. I suppose I should move them a little just to make sure they still work.
The new Shimano brakes are just plain awesome. With the right tires it feels that you could pull a stoppie or buckle a carbon fork, my Campy brakes aren't all that great. I know the pads and rims make a huge difference in performance, but off the showroom floor I was amazed with Shimano brakes.
If you are going for lightness per dollar, Shimano all the way. If you have a budget, Shimano. If you are a racer and need stiffness, Shimano. If you ride to ride and want a 20 year groupo, Campy. If you have a European frame, or one that sounds European, Campy. If you have a whole bunch of money, PM me and I'll buy more Campy.
Shimano is very nice, especially the new stuff. It rivals Campy and even surpasses it in some aspects but I'm a diehard Campy man myself. For one, I have an "Italian" frame, so why put Jap stuff on it?
You can downshift like 3 or 4 gears with Campy at once, Shimano still doesn't do this. With a sturdy chain and rear cog, you can hammer and shift 2 gears at the same time, I found it marginal at best with Shimano because of the awkward hand position.
I really like the fact that the up and down shifters are separate (thumbs and fingers vs fingers and fingers) and the cables are hidden. If you're really good, you can route the cables perfectly on a non-indented bar to provide a nice flat palm surface after a decent cork ribbon job.
The Shimano drivetrain seems to be a little quieter, but I'm comparing pre-97 Campy to todays Shimano. My drivetrain needed minor adjustments while the cables stretched, but I haven't touched the barrel adjusters in 2 years. I suppose I should move them a little just to make sure they still work.
The new Shimano brakes are just plain awesome. With the right tires it feels that you could pull a stoppie or buckle a carbon fork, my Campy brakes aren't all that great. I know the pads and rims make a huge difference in performance, but off the showroom floor I was amazed with Shimano brakes.
If you are going for lightness per dollar, Shimano all the way. If you have a budget, Shimano. If you are a racer and need stiffness, Shimano. If you ride to ride and want a 20 year groupo, Campy. If you have a European frame, or one that sounds European, Campy. If you have a whole bunch of money, PM me and I'll buy more Campy.
Don't touch the barrels - you'll just throw all of that nice Campy karma out of whack that took 2 years to form!breesej said:
Seriously - and I'm trying to look at it objectively rather than to "pick on" Shimano - but why a brake set that's far more powerful than it needs to be? It doesn't give better modulation or feel, does it?
If not, I don't see that as a particular selling point when my Centaur and Avid Shorty 4 brakes do the job just fine. I can skid my tires at a mere touch, so why would I want brakes that could "buckle a carbon fork"??
Wurm said:
Brakes aren't about the ability to lock the wheel. As you correctly point out, that's useless, especially on a road bike. But there is an advantage to powerful brakes. That power allows greater "feel" at the levers and the ability to feather the brakes to whatever level riding conditions and situations dictate. Less powerful brakes can lock a wheel as effectively as more powerful brakes but the span from no braking to full braking is more controlled and instills greater confidence. Of course the ability to provide consistant braking is just as, if not more important. As energy driving you forward is converted to heat at the contact point, the characteristics of the friction will begin to change. If that change results in a reduction of the ability to convert the energy to heat, the brakes are said to fade. Brakes that fade quickly may feel wonderful when applied for a short moment coming into a corner, but after several corners taken in quick succession, may begin to feel spongy and unpredictable.
If extra power weren't worth the money, engineering and technology, you wouldn't be seeing disc brakes on downhill mountain bikes. A standard V-brake can lock a wheel with little trouble. But when it comes to providing consistent braking feel and performance over a series of applications, the V-brake fades and the disc quickly emerges as the superior system for that particular application. It simply handles the higher energies and therefore, the increased heat, better. (Assuming of course, it's a decent disc brake system and not one of the oh-so-cool, but useless, cable-actuated knock-offs). More power and better performance over continued and frequent application are definitely worth the money, brand name, fuss or whatever it takes to get it.
Brade fade can be an issue, but I've not had it be so with a normal set of well-adjusted dual-pivot brakes with good pads on a road frame. Single-pivot brakes I've owned like Cane Creek's can be more of a problem, but then that's an issue you knowingly take on to save some weight.
Discs are also popular on MTB's for the fact that the rims don't take the abuse from dirt and grit being ground into them, which alone causes otherwise good rim brakes not to grip as well. If it were mainly about weaker brakes/brake fade, we'd probably start seeing discs on roadies.
Discs are also popular on MTB's for the fact that the rims don't take the abuse from dirt and grit being ground into them, which alone causes otherwise good rim brakes not to grip as well. If it were mainly about weaker brakes/brake fade, we'd probably start seeing discs on roadies.
Both.
Campy on my Italian steel (who puts Shimano on chrome lugged steel?) and Shimano on my Taiwanese CF with relaxed geometry.
I much prefer Campy hoods/shifters-- they just feel more natural, but other than that I am hard pressed to ascertain much of a difference in quality between the two.
Campy on my Italian steel (who puts Shimano on chrome lugged steel?) and Shimano on my Taiwanese CF with relaxed geometry.
I much prefer Campy hoods/shifters-- they just feel more natural, but other than that I am hard pressed to ascertain much of a difference in quality between the two.
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