Campy or Shimano?



Here is Steffen winning the Ronde:

Looks similar to our contract breaker. :D

In fact if you look at the background of the two pics they look very similar. Same time gun, same guys in the stands, same banner in the background. I'm beginning to think that the first pic is doctored. :rolleyes:
 
It's a long shot, but the front brake in the first pic looks like a shimano one, not a Campag one. However, Shimano brakes with Campag levers is a kinda popular combination because you get 2 quick-releases that way.

lokstah: I think BaCardi is hanging onto the possibility that although he concedes T-mobile riders might use Campy....it might not be because they prefer it. Or something. It's getting rather difficult to tell exactly what he's trying to say, isn't it?
 
Originally posted by BaCardi
Holy ****! Looks like Dennis totally got busted! I can't believe it! Good job Moser! How the hell did you find that?!

PS- Lokstah, just shut the **** up.

The pic comes from cyclingnews.com's coverage of the Ronde, and it IS Steffen Wesemann.
 
Originally posted by Moser
The pic comes from cyclingnews.com's coverage of the Ronde, and it IS Steffen Wesemann.


CyclingNews.com is a reliable source. I'm going with that. I think that just about ends that rumor. Good detective work!
 
Originally posted by BaCardi
PS- Lokstah, just shut the **** up.
Why? You're the foul-mouthed child.

Unlike you, I can make a concession when things don't look right -- pretty clearly, Moser's research suggests that the picture Dennis posted was a hoax. Whether Dennis faked it himself, or found the picture already faked, is up for grabs, but it's clear that that image isn't evidence that anyone on T-Mobile is riding Campy in public races.

Fair enough.

Of course, my point has always been your complete absence of one, BaCardi. Whether Dennis' picture is bogus or not, I stand by my confusion regarding what anyone here actually disagrees over. Suggesting that T-Mobile riders, or any other Shimano-contracted riders, prefer Campy and even ride it from time to time is neither unheard of nor heresy.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Still inconclusive. It also looks like the 2nd pic is the doctored one? The first pic comes from http://www.campyonly.com


We already knew that you were a frequent visitor and contributor of the campaonly website. So, go ahead and see the world through your Campy-colored glasses.

Let's see. Comparing credibility of these different news sources. Moser gives us CyclingNews.com. And Dennis "I heart campy" Dee gives us CampyOnly.com? Uh, hmmm. No brainer here. I'm going with CyclingNews.com!

PS- Lokstah, just shut the **** up and let the man speak for himself!
 
Originally posted by BaCardi
We already knew that you were a frequent visitor and contributor of the campaonly website.

It's bewildering how you can state something so matter-of-factly and take sympathy by saying "WE". How twisted is that.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
It's bewildering how you can state something so matter-of-factly and take sympathy by saying "WE". How twisted is that.
The photo is now completely lacking any credibility in either direction, Dennis -- but no matter where it came from, no matter what this thread is about, no matter what Zabel likes on his bikes and no matter what the chemical properties of magnesium are (had to throw that in) -- BaCardi is a proven sociopath and arguing with him is completely pointless.

The point of this debate was settled posts ago. We all know that some pro riders are contracted to use Shimano but prefer Campy.

Let the crazy boy foam at the mouth.
 
Originally posted by mjw_byrne
lokstah: I think BaCardi is hanging onto the possibility that although he concedes T-mobile riders might use Campy....it might not be because they prefer it. Or something. It's getting rather difficult to tell exactly what he's trying to say, isn't it?
I'd ask him, but he'd just tell me to shut the **** up. Not sure he knows what his point is, actually. I think he just loves to sniff for "liars" in the forums and then get three continents worth of posters caught up in an insult-laden crusade, reality be damned. The "point" is always lost three or four points in, in favor of a new fuel -- whatever keeps the controversy flying.

We're suckers for getting pulled down the vortex every time.
 
Originally posted by lokstah
The photo is now completely lacking any credibility in either direction, Dennis -- but no matter where it came from, no matter what this thread is about, no matter what Zabel likes on his bikes and no matter what the chemical properties of magnesium are (had to throw that in) -- BaCardi is a proven sociopath and arguing with him is completely pointless.

The point of this debate was settled posts ago. We all know that some pro riders are contracted to use Shimano but prefer Campy.

Let the crazy boy foam at the mouth.

It does indeed look that way lokstah. However the crazy boy is the sucker. Damn if one gets sucked by the mosquito.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Still inconclusive. It also looks like the 2nd pic is the doctored one? The first pic comes from http://www.campyonly.com


I don't think so. Go to Cyclingnews.com and look at the pictures from the Ronde. There are several pics of Steffen from several different photographers, all show him riding a Shimano equipped Giant. I think it's clear that the campyonly.com pic is the fake. ;)
 
Originally posted by Moser
I don't think so. Go to Cyclingnews.com and look at the pictures from the Ronde. There are several pics of Steffen from several different photographers, all show him riding a Shimano equipped Giant. I think it's clear that the campyonly.com pic is the fake. ;)


CyclingNews.com has its own photographers, writers, etc. It is a professional journal of cycling. Campyonly is biased and lacks the objectivity to be a professional source of information, and we see now why Dennis Dee gets his breakfast there with lokstah's lips firmly entrenched on his ass.
 
Originally posted by BaCardi
CyclingNews.com has its own photographers, writers, etc. It is a professional journal of cycling. Campyonly is biased and lacks the objectivity to be a professional source of information, and we see now why Dennis Dee gets his breakfast there with lokstah's lips firmly entrenched on his ass.
Would you like a new set of facts, clear to any attentive person reading these posts?

1) Pretty much the entire participating thread, including you, and including me, was fooled by the photo. It's a wash. We can disregard it as a hoax.

2) You're incapable of conducting a sensible debate. No one knows exactly what your point is; the only thing that's clear is that you love calling people nasty names, and that you're unnecessarily passionate about things the rest of us would rather simply discuss.

I'm sure Dennis has a lovely ass, but that's between him and his saddle. I don't visit CampyOnly, because I'm a Shimano guy. Anyways, grow up.
 
Hey Bicarb, it's obvious you don't realize it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your a moron, than to open your mouth and prove it! :rolleyes:
 
Why the hell does everyone keep going on about the price of Campagnolo products, yes ok they are rather expensive but you have to pay the money to get the product. The other component manufacturer hardly pours any money into developing there road components just the crappy mtb side. Whereas Campagnolo which has turnover which is substantially less that the opponent continously develops there components, with new derailleurs, shifters, wheels etc.

If you want the best buy Campagnolo, you won't regret it
 
Originally posted by Giz
Why the hell does everyone keep going on about the price of Campagnolo products, yes ok they are rather expensive but you have to pay the money to get the product. The other component manufacturer hardly pours any money into developing there road components just the crappy mtb side. Whereas Campagnolo which has turnover which is substantially less that the opponent continously develops there components, with new derailleurs, shifters, wheels etc.

If you want the best buy Campagnolo, you won't regret it

Shimano's turnover is double than of Campagnolo but that is because most of that comes from mass market product sales. Campagnolo basically has a narrower product range choosing to concentrate only on its core product offerings from the Veloce to the top-of-the-line Record. Comparing similar products of Shimano w/ the Campy core products, the gap isn't much more ie. Record v DuraAce, Chorus v Ultegra, Centaur v 105 so on and so forth.

From what I gathered, Campy R&D spending over the past dacade has quadrupled versus the decade before that and as a % to its total sales on their core products versus Shimano, Campagnolo share is definitely higher.

Before Campagnolo offered the C-Record, Chorus, Croce d'Aune, Athena gruppos, it was fighting a losing battle for market share in the upper-market products with Shimano. The appearance of Suntour in this arena did not help a bit. At that time, the best Campagnolo could offer was the Super Record gruppo, engineering gems in their own right (today highly sought by collectors along with the grand sport).

Tullio Campagnolo realised this and the only way to arrest the decline was to compete with the best that the far east can offer. Overnight, R&D was more than doubled and at times. The gamble paid off and the result was the C-Record, Chorus and alike.

And then, the battle for product superiority between Shimano and Campagnolo followed hereafter. The casualty to this battle was Suntour's Superbe Pro Gruppo (note: shame that Superbe Pro was shelved because I think it was a very good product, the hubs were at par in smoothness as Campy's).

To conclude, Campangolo also realized that to be at the forefront of the high-end market they should trailblaze in product innovation and not just a follow-me. After Campy followed Shimano in the STI levers and dual pivot brakes (which is considered by pundits as a milestone in bicycle technology), Campagnolo has led the new product innovations such as the first to introduce an 8-speed, 9-speed and 10 speed drivetrains, first to use Carbon fibre in brake levers, rear derailleurs, Cranks and alike. Campy's latest innovation this year is the use of multi-directional carbon fibre in the Crank and the use of directional carbon fibre in the front derailleur and on the rear derailleur pulley mechanism.

Footnote: I dont see shimano following suit with carbon fibre technology because of the continual development in the use of lightweight aluminum alloy and the hallowtech technology. Hollowtech II is proof to this. What most Shimano afficionados that I know want to see is the faster trickle down of technology on the lower groups. For example, it took only a year before Campy offered the same 10 speed drivetrain to their lower groups and that it pushes 'shared technology' which means a Centaur 10-speed derailleur will work on a 10 speed Record drivetrain. The one gripe I have with Campagnolo is the use of plastic in the brake levers in the Veloce group. It does not only look cheap but the levers actually flex under hard braking.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Campagnolo has led the new product innovations such as the first to introduce an 8-speed, 9-speed and 10 speed drivetrains

:rolleyes:

Shimano was the first to introduce 8 and then 9 speed drivetrains, not Campagnolo! Shimano has been the industry leader in new technology.

"Nothing against Campagnolo, but Shimano is to be credited with revolutionizing bicycle componentry over the last 20 years. From lightweight and functional components, to indexed shifting, to the first integrated brake/shift levers, to the jumps to eight and then nine speeds, Shimano has led the way. "
-- Patrick Brady, Asphalt Magazine
http://www.asphaltmag.com/v1n4/feature5.htm
 
yer mate ShimaNO is made of cheap plastic parts and Campagnolo is way ahead of shimaNO who had 10 speed first and well who stuff works first time every time Campagnolo is just teh best. When i set my Bike up with Campagnolo Record i found it was cheaper than shimaNO and works better. NEVER SAY CAMPAGNOLO IS BEHIND. 2 words CARBON FIBRE
 
Originally posted by king_matt87
yer mate ShimaNO is made of cheap plastic parts and Campagnolo is way ahead of shimaNO who had 10 speed first and well who stuff works first time every time Campagnolo is just teh best. When i set my Bike up with Campagnolo Record i found it was cheaper than shimaNO and works better. NEVER SAY CAMPAGNOLO IS BEHIND. 2 words CARBON FIBRE

lol, whats so great about cf?