Campy QS shifters

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by JonnyG, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. JonnyG

    JonnyG New Member

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    Hi All! This is my first post... so go easy on me:)

    I'm planning the build of a new road bike and at this moment, I'm leaning toward Campy 10 speed for the drive train. I've noticed there is still pretty good availability of (older) Record and Chorus 10 speed at many retailers, and the prices seem reasonable. I'm completely new to Campy however, so this is the reason for my post. I'm sure this question has been asked many times before, but the search engine won't allow me to search on two characters. The two characters I'm concerned with are "QS". From what I've read so far, QS means quick shift. This was an attempt to improve the shifting and shorten the travel of the front shifter, starting in 2007 I believe. It's seems a bit unclear to me whether this change was actually seen as an improvement. So the questions... (specifically for Chorus and Record shifters).
    Do both the QS and pre-QS shifters have the same ratchet mechanism, or is one of them more of an indexed system (which I don't want)?
    Do they have the same basic feel to them (except for the amount of travel)?
    Is one more durable or servicable?
    Are the QS shifters the better shifters to get, or should I go back to the 2006 models? Explain why.
    TIA.
    Jon
     
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  2. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Well, both are indexed systems. The non-QS shifter for the front derailleur, takes three or four clicks to shift on the front, if the system is setup correctly. The QS shifter can do the shift in 1 less click or so. The difference in feel is supposed to be very subtle, such that some people really don't notice a difference. There's no difference in durability. Each is as serviceable as the other, which is to say a piece of cake. You can use a non-QS shifter with a QS front derailleur if you so choose. It doesn't matter. Iffin' I were you, I'd choose according to whether I wanted to shift the front with more clicks or less. Another option to consider is the Campy Centaur shifters. They're 10 spd shifters, but they have the new Campy ergonomics, which are quite nice.
     
  3. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    There are QS shifters, and then there are QS shifters ...

    If the LEFT shifter only has a 'QS' emblazoned on it, then the shifters are derived from the oft maligned Campagnolo Xenon shifters.
    The Campagnolo Xenon shifter's mechanism is actually quite elegant, but it was NOT made to be serviced because the secondary post on which a part of the mechanism pivots is press-fitted into the handle, so replacing the pivoting parts is not practical -- so, if/when something goes amiss, the entire handle needs to be replaced. That is, like the Shimano & Sram shifters, the Xenon-based shifter becomes a paperweight or part of the community landfill.

    The soon-to-be-released Power Torque shifters have been outwardly described as having the same shifting characteristics as the Xenon-based shifters so it is generally presumed that they will be Xenon-based. Presumably/(hopefully!), the "post" in the the Power Torque shifter is threaded into a metal boss and thereby making the shifter serviceable; but, they may not be.

    Because the Xenon-based shifters are Triple-capable (this is true with Shimano shifters which can handle Triples, BTW), they can be used with a DOUBLE crankset with almost any front derailleur & almost any chain by utilizing the "extra click(s)" that would be normally used to move the chain onto the third chainring. When used with a TRIPLE crankset, you must use a specific front derailleur & specific chain with the QS shifters.

    The 2007/2008 Chorus shifter was apparently emblazoneed with "Ultra QS" to provide some credibility (i.e., marketing continuity) to the Xenon-based QS shifters (Centaur QS, Veloce QS, Mirage QS). The Chorus shifter has the standard Campagnolo mechansim ...
    The standard Campagnolo LEFT shifter can be used with any front derailleur & chain ... the limitation is that you wouldn't want to use a significantly wider chain than the derailleur normally uses because of chain rub (e.g., you wouldn't want to use a 5-speed chain with an 10-speed Shimano front derailleur BUT you could use a truly vintage 5-speed front derailleur with a 10-speed chain).

    FWIW. The Campagnolo 10-speed RIGHT shifter (either "standard" or "QS") can be readily indexed to 8-/9-speed Shimano drivetrains (and, therefore to 7-speed Shimano drivetrains), presumably (i.e., untested) the 10-speed Shimano drivetrain, and the 10-speed SRAM drivetrain; so, the "standard" 10-speed shifters are (IMO) almost universal ...
    THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR MOST CAMPAGNOLO USERS, but it means that people who mistakenly choose Shimano or SRAM shifters can subsequently migrate to Campagnolo shifters without buying new derailleurs/wheels ...

    ALSO, Campagnolo's largest available rear cog is currently a 29t ... a 32t 8spd cog was made for Campagnolo's short-lived MTB component group.
    I equip most of my Road bikes which have Campy shifters with MTB cassettes (e.g., 11-32) & Shimano derailleurs.
    Because the standard Campagnolo shifters can be serviced/rebuilt (and because they suit my specific drivetrain needs), IMO, the standard Campagnolo shifters are therefore preferred over the QS-versions.
     
  4. JonnyG

    JonnyG New Member

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    Hi All: Thanks for the responses to my question. I've continued researching on this forum and I think I have found the exact piece of information I'm looking for. In a thread from 2007
    http://www.cyclingforums.com/cycling-equipment/373716-cable-compatability-campy.html#ixzz0x6dkD5fJ

    I have found the following quote from User "Eastway82"

    "A word of warning: If you're buying 2007 shifters, then go for Chorus rather than Veloce.
    Up to and including 2006, all the groups except Xenon used exactly the same shifter internals, with the exception of Chorus/Record, which had two ball bearing races instead of plain bushes. With the '07 kit, Chorus/Record are exactly the same as last year except for one tiny cogwheel in the left shifter, designed to work with the new QS front derailleur (you can retrofit the cogwheel to any 00-06 Record/Chorus shifter). BUT Mirage/Veloce/Centaur now have the much cheaper internal workings from the 00-06 Xenon shifters. If I were you, I'd be looking for deals on '06 old stock, not being tempted to pay a premium for '07, especially for those lower groups. "

    From this, I interpret that Record and Chorus shifters remained unchanged between 2006 and '07 except for one small cog. Based on this I will buy whatever is most easily available at this time, which I think is the '07 QS shifters. Let me know if anyone has a different understanding.
    Thanks again.
    Jon
     
  5. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FWIW. We apparently have a failure of communicaton ...

    Neither Eastway82 nor I recommend the "QS" shifters, and your declared decision is in 180ยบ opposition to our parallel suggestion ...
    The "QS" shifters may be a better option than Shimano or SRAM shifters, but there really is no reason to choose them when the "regular" Campagnolo shifters are readily available.
     
  6. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    There'll be a slight difference in cable pull, i.e. just a small difference in the number of clicks to shift from one chainring to another. Your strategy is sound.
     
  7. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    AND-"From this, I interpret that Record and Chorus shifters remained unchanged between 2006 and '07 except for one small cog. Based on this I will buy whatever is most easily available at this time, which I think is the '07 QS shifters. Let me know if anyone has a different understanding.

    Read more: http://www.cyclingforums.com/cycling-equipment/478410-campy-qs-shifters.html#ixzz0x9JFoFAx

    1999 thru 2008 Record and Chorus ERGO had the same innards, the same multiple up and down shifts for the RH lever and the ability to use just about any FD for the LH lever, it being a ratcheting friction. The only levers that were Xenon based were Xenon and 2007/8 Centaur, Veloce and Mirage. Also they work OK, they are not the best.

    We'll see what the Athena and below ERGO are like for 2011. I'll see at Interbike. Biggest PITA is another hood required to be carried if they are a derivative of Xenon innards AND newest shape.
     
  8. JonnyG

    JonnyG New Member

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    Thanks for confirming my understanding.
    Jon
     
  9. rob1745

    rob1745 New Member

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    My left shifter snapped yesterday leaving me with the use of the small chainring. Spoke to a lad at Ribble who confirmed it was Campag Mirage QS (on the left) and 10spd on the right ....... reading some of the comments, looks like I'm heading for a new set of Brake shifter assemblies, but what is compatible i.e. I won't be able to obtain any spare for the broken shifter...correct?

    I'd very much appreciate any advice or help anyone could give me....

    Rob
     
  10. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    The mechanism isn't quite the same. While the cable pull on QS and non-QS is the same, the QS shifter starts pulling a bit earlier than non-QS. All Campy integrated brake lever/shifters are indexed. As for whether the move to QS shifters was noticeable, some say yes, while others say say the difference isn't really noticeable. Both systems are equally serviceable, and YouTube has a number of video tutorials for servicing Campy brifters. If you can get the QS brifters, then do so. There's no reason to look for an older model.
     
  11. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Quote:Originally Posted by rob1745 . My left shifter snapped yesterday leaving me with the use of the small chainring. Spoke to a lad at Ribble who confirmed it was Campag Mirage QS (on the left) and 10spd on the right ....... reading some of the comments, looks like I'm heading for a new set of Brake shifter assemblies, but what is compatible i.e. I won't be able to obtain any spare for the broken shifter...correct?

    I'd very much appreciate any advice or help anyone could give me....


    I presume that the SHIFT PADDLE is what has broken on your shifter ...

    It can be replaced, but separate parts tend to be expensive since the apparent presumption is that it will be a CHORUS or RECORD shifter which is being rebuilt ...

    Of course, you can cannibalize a shift paddle from ALMOST ANY other Campagnolo shifter of the appropriate SIDE whose internals no longer work properly ...

    OR, replace it with an entire shifter (as you have queried about) ...

    OR (and, I have NOT actually tried this) if you still have the broken piece, then drill-and-tap both the remant stub AND the paddle ... and then, join each "half" together with a headless-screw-or-bolt glued into each "half" with some JB WELD (accept NO SUBSTITUTES on the epoxy).

    If you are really handy then you could probably pop-the-rivet & yoke a homemade paddle fabricated from whatever stiff-and-robust material you are familiar with (e.g., brass stock, thin sheet steel, oak) onto the mechanism -- I have NOT tried this, either.

    et cetera.

    BTW. As far as the Xenon-based QS mechansm vs. the "regular" ErgoPower mechanism, they work pretty much the same ... BUT, there actually is a slight difference in the pull for the left shifters ... however, the "older" non-QS shifter can work with almost any cable operated front derailleur while the Xenon-based QS levers may-or-may not shift as efficiently with a non-specific Campagnolo front derailleur.

    If it is a matter of durability, then an alloy shifter of either/any vintage will probably serve you better than the shifters with the composite paddles (Campagnolo uses the SAME apparently-unreenforced composite material on their high-zoot shifters, too) ...

    The shift paddles from different vintage Campagnolo shifters look sligtly dfferent, but I think that they are generally interchangeable with only a minimal amount of tweaking.
     
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