Campy rear, shimano front?

[Greg]

I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it. I have a
few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this bike. That
isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon cranks. These cranks
only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom bracket is either octalink or
the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom bracket, with
the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus without any
issues? Thanks for the help.

Greg Keller

 

[Tim McNamara]

[email protected] (Greg) writes:

> I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it. I have
> a few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this bike.
> That isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon cranks. These
> cranks only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom bracket is either
> octalink or the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom
> bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus
> without any issues? Thanks for the help.

Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

 

[Jim Beam]

> So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA
> compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus without any issues?

yes. i have a dura-ace [octalink] crank and record shifters/derailleurs. work great.

 

[Jim Beam]

> Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

are you sure? i took apart an isis the other week and there was not much interference fit going on.
octalink has a the best of the old school, namely a taper, as well as splines. it's a much better
concept if it's possible to get past the anti-shimano thing.

jb

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Greg-<< I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it.
I have a few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this
bike. That isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon cranks.
>><BR><BR>

<< These cranks only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom bracket is
either octalink or the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a shimano style
bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else campy record or
chorus without any issues? >><BR><BR>

Sure, put the octalinkon, the crank will work fine with Campagnolo stuff...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Tim McNamara]

jim beam <[email protected]> writes:

>> Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.
>
> are you sure? i took apart an isis the other week and there was not much interference fit going
> on. octalink has a the best of the old school, namely a taper, as well as splines. it's a much
> better concept if it's possible to get past the anti-shimano thing.

Unless Shimano has changed their design, it's not very good. It's entirely possoble to destroy the
splines inside the crank (I've seen that done, even by good mechanics); there is a significant
possibility of developing backlash in the left crank-axle interface; and it wasn't an interference
fit in the past, the crank coming to a stop against the bottom of the splines and held in place by
the bolt tension. I have a number of buddies with the Shimano spline cranks and about 10% of them
have had to replace a crank thus far because of spline damage. These issues have been hashed and
rehashed in r.b.t several times.

My ISIS crank, OTOH, has a tight interference fit against which it bottoms out, just like a square
taper fit, rather than bottoming out against the end of the splines. The shape of the splines seems
much less likely to result in backlash. This is a Truvativ drank and BB, BTW. I only know of my ISIS
crank and a buddy with an ISIS-equipped tandem, so the sample size is a *lot* smaller and thus
problems may not have turned up yet. Of course, I've never had a problem in 30 years with a square
taper crank- these splined things are a solution to a nonexistent problem, IMHO.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> [email protected] (Greg) writes:
>
> > I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it. I
> > have a few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this
> > bike. That isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon
> > cranks. These cranks only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom
> > bracket is either octalink or the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a
> > shimano style bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else
> > campy record or chorus without any issues? Thanks for the help.
>
> Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

But the Ergomo power meter only works with tapered and Octalink BBs, not ISIS. See:
<http://www.ergomo-usa.com/sensor.html>.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Greg]

Jim, Thanks for the answer, you were the only person who gave me an answer, everyone else let this
digress into a pro isis thread.

jim beam <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA
> > compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus without any issues?
>
> yes. i have a dura-ace [octalink] crank and record shifters/derailleurs. work great.

 

[Jim Beam]

> It's entirely possoble to destroy the splines inside the crank (I've seen that done, even by good
> mechanics);

sure, but it's not something you see very often. you can replace brake pads on a car and mistakenly
put metal to metal - there's only so much allowance a manufacturer can make for fitting error.

[truth is, in the auto world, maintenence mistake-proofing is one of the biggest design challenges
faced, not engineering or materials.]

> there is a significant possibility of developing backlash in the left crank-axle interface;

see above. only if fitted incorrectly.

> and it wasn't an interference fit in the past, the crank coming to a stop against the bottom of
> the splines and held in place by the bolt tension.

are you sure it's bottoming? i see no evidence of that on mine. it's close, but the taper is doing
it's job and stopping the arm /just/ short of bottoming.

> I have a number of buddies with the Shimano spline cranks and about 10% of them have had to
> replace a crank thus far because of spline damage.

the spline damage /i've/ seen is because the retainer bolts have been fitted without the washer that
protects the soft aluminum as the bolts approach torque - everything got all mashed up. i don't see
that as a design problem specific to shimano other than the isis bolts i've seen have captive
washers and shimano don't.

<snip>

> My ISIS crank, OTOH, has a tight interference fit against which it bottoms out, just like a square
> taper fit

contrary to what i thought earlier, isis is in fact tapered - or at least, the one i've just
measured is - so yes, you do have exactly the same thing going on for isis as you do for
square taper.

<snip>

> The shape of the splines seems much less likely to result in backlash.

yes, it's an improvement on square taper in that the shape of the splines are less likely to cause
debilitating damage if it's used without being properly torqued. but i still believe that shimano is
the best system - any machinist will tell you how well a [round] morse taper works.

<snip>

> Of course, I've never had a problem in 30 years with a square taper crank

that's great, but your experience is not the case for a lot of people as you will have seen here.
people consistently argue about bolt torques, use of threadlock, greased/non-greased tapers, etc.
square taper is fine if fitted properly, but it's very easy to get wrong.

> - these splined things are a solution to a nonexistent problem, IMHO.

i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/ more mistake-proof than
square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a morse-type taper [/and/ at the same
time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] - seems like a good thing to me.

 

[Bfd]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
> more mistake-proof than square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a
> morse-type taper [/and/ at the same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] -
> seems like a good thing to me.
>
One question I have is if octalink is such an *excellent* move, why is Shimano phasing it out
octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10 one-pience crank/bb combo.
Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and octalink will be no more.....

 

[Ted Bennett]

jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Of course, I've never had a problem in 30 years with a square taper crank
>
> that's great, but your experience is not the case for a lot of people as you will have seen here.
> people consistently argue about bolt torques, use of threadlock, greased/non-greased tapers, etc.
> square taper is fine if fitted properly, but it's very easy to get wrong.
>
> > - these splined things are a solution
> > to a nonexistent problem, IMHO.
>
> i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/ more mistake-proof than
> square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a morse-type taper [/and/ at the
> same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] - seems like a good thing to me.

Interesting that this thread is coincident with the one attacking Shimano's dominance in the
bike industry.

Despite never having had trouble with my square taper cranks, I think that Jim is right about
octalink/Isis representing a real improvement, as improperly installed square tapers are a real
problem. Any mechanic has seen many ruined cranks traceable to improper installation.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

 

[Jim Beam]

rhetorical: why go to 64-bits?

bfd wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>>i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
>>
>>more mistake-proof than square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a
>>morse-type taper [/and/ at the same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] -
>>seems like a good thing to me.
>>
>
> One question I have is if octalink is such an *excellent* move, why is Shimano phasing it out
> octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10 one-pience crank/bb combo.
> Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and octalink will be no more.....

 

[Chls Berry]

bfd wrote:

> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
> > more mistake-proof than square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a
> > morse-type taper [/and/ at the same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] -
> > seems like a good thing to me.
> >
> One question I have is if octalink is such an *excellent* move, why is Shimano phasing it out
> octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10 one-pience crank/bb combo.
> Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and octalink will be no more.....

sorry ya'all, but I couldn't resist. are we talking bout a modified Ashtabula(sp)? chls b

 

[A Muzi]

>>"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
>>>more mistake-proof than square taper. -snip-

> bfd wrote:>>One question I have is if octalink is such
an *excellent* move, why is
>>Shimano phasing it out octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10
>>one-pience crank/bb combo. Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and
>>octalink will be no more.....

>chls berry wrote: sorry ya'all, but I couldn't resist. are we talking bout a modified
>Ashtabula(sp)?

More like a modified Chiorda or Thun

For the younger set, these were steel right-crank-cum-spindle systems with a separate removeable
left crank. Ashtabulas (OPC) are one piece right-spindle-left cranks.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Chls Berry]

A Muzi wrote:

> >>"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
> >>>more mistake-proof than square taper. -snip-
>
> > bfd wrote:>>One question I have is if octalink is such
> an *excellent* move, why is
> >>Shimano phasing it out octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10
> >>one-pience crank/bb combo. Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and
> >>octalink will be no more.....
>
> >chls berry wrote: sorry ya'all, but I couldn't resist. are we talking bout a modified
> >Ashtabula(sp)?
>
> More like a modified Chiorda or Thun
>
> For the younger set, these were steel right-crank-cum-spindle systems with a separate removeable
> left crank. Ashtabulas (OPC) are one piece right-spindle-left cranks.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

seems like i've got a chiorda rusting out back with 3 piece crank. must be a late model(65-70).
was just wondering if shimano was going full circle to Schwinn! thanks for the info chls berry