CAMPY RECORD BB problems!



R

Rouleur

Guest
Anyone else have a similar experience???

I built my bike up with Campy Record. First Campy bike in 14 years.
Longtime Shimano user.

I noticed a "clunk" which seemed to come from the BB area. It was
worse with a pedal stroke on the drive side and got progressively
worse over time. Also was worse with out of the saddle pedaling.

Checked everything else before taking out the BB. I checked the
pedals, crankarm bolts, rear cassette, chain...everything.

When I did take apart the BB, I noticed an great amount of play with
the bearings in the carbon sleeve. This occurred even when the cups
were seated tightly against the bearings. When I removed the cups,
the drive side bearings seemed to be only loosely connected to the
axle and came apart very easily. I don't know if this is normal. I
would love to hear any comments. I do know that I have a Chorus BB on
my TT bike with ZERO problems.

I have a feeling that this is analogous to the Shimano splined BB. I
always thought DA was a bit under-built and always used Ultegra BB's.

THanks, Dave
 
dpsftsai-<< I noticed a "clunk" which seemed to come from the BB area
>><BR><BR>

<< When I did take apart the BB, I noticed an great amount of play with
the bearings in the carbon sleeve. This occurred even when the cups
were seated tightly against the bearings. When I removed the cups,
the drive side bearings seemed to be only loosely connected to the
axle and came apart very easily. >><BR><BR>

The two bearings on the BB should not come off easily. It sounds like the
frameset shell was not faced, parallel and the torque caysed the BB
spindle/bearings to come loose. Really tough to say w/o seeing it but I
recommend a facing of the BB shell.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Hi Peter. So I gather then that you personally feel that the Campy
Record BB could in no way be at fault? That this is more an issue of
improper installation instead?

I understand what you are saying makes great sense. That "If the
Frame's 2 Bottom Bracket Faces are not parallel to the threads of the
Frame Bottom Bracket, correct Torque, and proper button-up of the
Bottom Bracket Cups cannot properly be achieved". That problems of
some sort will arise somewhere down the road because of this. I find
no fault in this explanation.

I have read some mixed reviews online, both pro, and con about the
Campy BB's especially the Carbon Record Unit. To be honest, I
personally don't know what to believe. Some have said that the Chorus
BB is actually a better unit, and I wonder myself if this in fact
true? Could the Record Carbon Sleeve be a weak link for a BB that is
to have long troublefree life? Might the Chorus with Alloy Sleeve be
stronger? (Some have also said that both top end Campy Units are
****?!) One explanation was tiny bearings used.

I'm currently facing these issues right now on which unit to purchase
for a build up. I'm starting to lean toward purchasing the Chorus
Unit myself?
Mark

You wrote:
> The two bearings on the BB should not come off easily. It sounds like the
> frameset shell was not faced, parallel and the torque caysed the BB
> spindle/bearings to come loose. Really tough to say w/o seeing it but I
> recommend a facing of the BB shell.
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> http://www.vecchios.com
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Mark wrote:
>
> I have read some mixed reviews online, both pro, and con about the
> Campy BB's especially the Carbon Record Unit. To be honest, I
> personally don't know what to believe. Some have said that the Chorus
> BB is actually a better unit, and I wonder myself if this in fact
> true? Could the Record Carbon Sleeve be a weak link for a BB that is
> to have long troublefree life? Might the Chorus with Alloy Sleeve be
> stronger? (Some have also said that both top end Campy Units are
> ****?!) One explanation was tiny bearings used.
>
> I'm currently facing these issues right now on which unit to purchase
> for a build up. I'm starting to lean toward purchasing the Chorus
> Unit myself?
> Mark
>


My Record BB lasted 15,000k and then disintegrated. I think it got
ruined by moisture accumulation in the BB shell. Do yourself a favor and
buy Phil Woods BB. They are the best for sure.

Kenny Lee
 
apoman-<< Hi Peter. So I gather then that you personally feel that the Campy
Record BB could in no way be at fault? That this is more an issue of
improper installation instead? >><BR><BR>

Well, after installing a 'few' of these on properly prepped framesets, I can
say it's probably not the BB, but it could be.

Like I said, tough to say w/o seeing the BB and frameset.

APoman-<< I have read some mixed reviews online, both pro, and con about the
Campy BB's especially the Carbon Record Unit. >><BR><BR>

The design of the Record one is identical to the Chorus one with the exception
of a oversixed, welded in the center BB spindle to reduce weight. Otherwise the
same. If there is a 'problem' with the Record one, it would be in the Chorus
one as well. I just haven't seen any issues with the dozens I have installed.
The carbon sleeve is just a crud guard. You could remove it and the BB would
still work.



Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
> Kenny Lee [email protected] Writes:

>My Record BB lasted 15,000k and then disintegrated. I think it got
>ruined by moisture accumulation in the BB shell. Do yourself a favor and
>buy Phil Woods BB. They are the best for sure.
>


Does Phil sell a bottom bracket which is Campy compatible? I thought they only
sold ones with the Shimano axle taper.
 
Rouleur wrote:

> Anyone else have a similar experience???
>
> I built my bike up with Campy Record. First Campy bike in 14 years.
> Longtime Shimano user.
>
> I noticed a "clunk" which seemed to come from the BB area. It was
> worse with a pedal stroke on the drive side and got progressively
> worse over time. Also was worse with out of the saddle pedaling.


Erk! I've just had a chance to check the BB on my bike while I was
installing a connex chain link and it appears the BB is knackered. It
makes a grinding noise when turning and after removing the cranks I
couldn't turn the BB by hand. This wasn't the case a month ago when it
turned smoothly and silently.

The unit is a Campy Record triple and it's less than 3 months old with
only a little over 1000 miles on it.

Does anybody know if I am right in thinking that these units can't be
repaired?

Pete
 
Hi Peter, Thank you for the explanation, and a bit of schooling here.
I now understand a bit more about these, as you state, the Carbon
Sleeve serves no Structural importance, other than to serve as a "Crud
Guard".

To answer another poster questions/remarks, Yes, Phil Wood does make
Bottom Brackets for any new Campy Cranks. (Either standard
Steel/Alloy, or Ti/Alloy.

From what I can remember, Phil Wood BB's always have had an excellent
reputation for high quality, and I am now myself seriously considering
one of these for my build up. To see what Phil Wood makes, go to
Branford Bike www.brandfordbike.com and they have it all. Mark
>
> The design of the Record one is identical to the Chorus one with the exception
> of a oversixed, welded in the center BB spindle to reduce weight. Otherwise the
> same. If there is a 'problem' with the Record one, it would be in the Chorus
> one as well. I just haven't seen any issues with the dozens I have installed.
> The carbon sleeve is just a crud guard. You could remove it and the BB would
> still work.
>
>
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> http://www.vecchios.com
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Folks in the know, forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I have
a question about the Phil Wood Bottom Brackets. (Sheldon-Peter please
help me here)

I have seen pics of these Phil Wood brackets, but haven't seen one in
person recently. With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears to me,
that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They just look to me
that they thread within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it. In
other words, the area that would be faced (The edge of the frame BB)
does not require to be faced like it would need to, by using another
type Bottom Bracket? (Let's say a Campagnolo Record? These to me,
appear to have an outer lip on thier locking rings)

Would this edge on the frame bottom bracket now be exposed? Or is my
thinking all screwy? Hope I have made myself clear in what I am
asking? Please enlighten me. TIA Mark D.
 
pete-<< Does anybody know if I am right in thinking that these units can't be
repaired? >><BR><BR>

They cannot but most of the BB problems I've encountered are centered around a
non prepped BB shell. Few if any framesets these days are faced, chased,
prepped at all. If the BB has a cup that is against the BB shell, it needss to
be faced.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
apoman-<< With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears to me,
that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They just look to me
that they thread within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it. >><BR><BR>

That is correct, no need to face the BB shell, just ensure the BB shell threads
are clean.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
apoman-<< To see what Phil Wood makes, go to
Branford Bike www.brandfordbike.com and they have it all. Mark >><BR><BR>

As does any decent bike shop.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
copeland-<< Does Phil sell a bottom bracket which is Campy compatible? I
thought they only
sold ones with the Shimano axle taper. >><BR><BR>

Yes for any Campagnolo crank made from the middle 70s till today, double
triple, vintage, modern cranks.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> apoman-<< With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears to me,
> that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They just look to me
> that they thread within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it. >><BR><BR>
>
> That is correct, no need to face the BB shell, just ensure the BB shell threads
> are clean.


A quick question Peter. Can you recommend anything for cleaning old
thread lock off BB threads? I have to replace my BB and cleaning up the
threads is hard work with a toothbrush and some degreasant. I was
hoping there might be something better.

Pete
 
>> apoman-<< With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears
to me,
>> that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They just look to me
>> that they thread within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it.
>> >><BR><BR>


> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> That is correct, no need to face the BB shell, just ensure the BB
>> shell threads
>> are clean.



Ningi wrote:
> A quick question Peter. Can you recommend anything for cleaning old
> thread lock off BB threads? I have to replace my BB and cleaning up the
> threads is hard work with a toothbrush and some degreasant. I was
> hoping there might be something better.


Heat it with a heat gun. It crumbles.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
A Muzi wrote:
> >> apoman-<< With a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket, it appears to me,

>
>>> that the Locking Rings do NOT have a lip to them. They just look to me
>>> that they thread within the Bottom Bracket shell,and that's it.
>>> >><BR><BR>

>
>
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>
>>> That is correct, no need to face the BB shell, just ensure the BB
>>> shell threads
>>> are clean.

>
>
>
> Ningi wrote:
>
>> A quick question Peter. Can you recommend anything for cleaning old
>> thread lock off BB threads? I have to replace my BB and cleaning up
>> the threads is hard work with a toothbrush and some degreasant. I was
>> hoping there might be something better.

>
>
> Heat it with a heat gun. It crumbles.
>


Thanks for the tip, Andrew.

Pete
 
ningi-<< cleaning old
thread lock off BB threads? >><BR><BR>

A wire brush, one that isn't too stiff.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Hi Peter, I have another question for you about Campy Chorus, and
Record Bottom Brackets, and the use of Loktight thread sealing
compound.

I have read that all new Phil Wood Brackets come supplied with a tube
of loktite. (Haven't seen thier Installation instructions though)

On the Chorus, and Record Bottom Brackets, I see this Sealer is
already applied, but from what I can see, it doesn't look like they
used a heck of a lot, just a tiny strip is all I see applied on each
cup, and I wonder if this is adequate?

From your own personal experience, do you find that you apply an
additional amount of locktight #242 to entirely cover the BB Cup
Threads during installation, or do you leave well enough alone with
what Campy has put on them? Thank Peter, Mark D.


[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> ningi-<< cleaning old
> thread lock off BB threads? >><BR><BR>
>
> A wire brush, one that isn't too stiff.
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> http://www.vecchios.com
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
apoman-<< On the Chorus, and Record Bottom Brackets, I see this Sealer is
already applied, but from what I can see, it doesn't look like they
used a heck of a lot, just a tiny strip is all I see applied on each
cup, and I wonder if this is adequate? >><BR><BR>

Use grease on these..inside both cups, and inside the BB shell. Face the
frameset and install tight. We also use grease, not loctite on Phil BBs...sorry
Brent.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Grease, really!? Hmmmm. I gather the grease helps ease the
installation some, and then also acts as a weather/water barrier?

Then all I see loktite doing is making future removal of same Bottom
Bracket virtually impossible down the road. (God, I love these type of
topics/conversations!)

I can clearly visualize exactly what facing does for a BB
installation. I assume "what good is achieving proper torque values,
when only 1/3-1/2 of a BB Cup Lip is actually making proper contact
with the frame BB edge?", Correct?
Mark

[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> apoman-<< On the Chorus, and Record Bottom Brackets, I see this Sealer is
> already applied, but from what I can see, it doesn't look like they
> used a heck of a lot, just a tiny strip is all I see applied on each
> cup, and I wonder if this is adequate? >><BR><BR>
>
> Use grease on these..inside both cups, and inside the BB shell. Face the
> frameset and install tight. We also use grease, not loctite on Phil BBs...sorry
> Brent.
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> http://www.vecchios.com
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"