Campy Record Ergo 10 - Triple?

[bfd]

"Artoi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
>> compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
>> effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
>
> So why would you want to pick Shimano
> derailleurs/cassettes/chainrings/cranks if you are willing to pay for
> Campag shifters?
>
Some people prefer Shimano cassettes because of the wider range. Since Campy
is focused on "racing only," the largest cassette offered is a 29t. For
those who tour or need more, i.e., 32t or 34t, in the rear, the only other
option is Shimano.

> In any case, I understand there are third party RD adaptors for this
> purpose while the FD can be easily used with Campag Lt shifter.
>
> http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
> --
That right. Some have even been able to use a Shimano cassette with Campy
ergo levers/rear der without one of those devices. Of course, Campy left
ergo lever, the one tha shifts the front, is a ratchet and easily compatible
with any front der.

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Michael Warner wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2006 05:12:39 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
>
> Many people like the idea of routing the gear cables under the bar
> tape, but stick with Shimano for other reasons. IMHO Campy would
> sell a lot of Shimano-compatible shifters, if they could swallow their
> pride a little.

What is ridiculous is that Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM can not agree
on standard spacing and derailer pull so everything would be
interchangeable. It is as annoying as the existence of different
tire/wheel sizes that differ by only a few millimeters. Arrrrrrgh!

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

 

[bfd]

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Michael Warner wrote:
>> On 30 Oct 2006 05:12:39 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>
>> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
>> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
>> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
>>
>> Many people like the idea of routing the gear cables under the bar
>> tape, but stick with Shimano for other reasons. IMHO Campy would
>> sell a lot of Shimano-compatible shifters, if they could swallow their
>> pride a little.
>
> What is ridiculous is that Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM can not agree
> on standard spacing and derailer pull so everything would be
> interchangeable. It is as annoying as the existence of different
> tire/wheel sizes that differ by only a few millimeters. Arrrrrrgh!
>
Actually, for 10 speed, it is my understanding that the difference between
the "big 3" is so little that it basically doesn't make any difference. The
biggest difference, at least between Campy and Shimano, was 9 speed spacing.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Artoi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
>
> So why would you want to pick Shimano
> derailleurs/cassettes/chainrings/cranks if you are willing to pay for
> Campag shifters?
>

Possibly because your bike came from thr factory with Shimano spec, but
now your STI shifters have given up the ghost?

(And don''t assume Ergo is more $ than STI, even in the short term.)


> In any case, I understand there are third party RD adaptors for this
> purpose while the FD can be easily used with Campag Lt shifter.
>
> http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
>

Why bother with an after market kludge if you could get a Shimano
compatible option from Campy?

 

[Michael Warner]

On 30 Oct 2006 14:22:44 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:

> Running the cables under the tape is nice, but, IMO, repairability/
> changeability (e.g., 9SP to 10SP) and getting rid of the ~%!&^*
> Shimano indexed front shifting are the biggest attractions.

Not to the majority of people looking to buy a new road bike, IME.
At that point, before any scratches have appeared to mar its
beauty, cosmetics really matter.

As for the indexed front, once I understood how the trim works
I've never had any trouble setting it up, and I've never heard anyone
else complain about it, either. OTOH, my one experience with
helping someone with Campy was that setting the outer limit
screw to make shifting out quick and reliable but avoid throwing the
chain was a bit fiddly. At least it doesn't seem to need further attention
so far.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Michael Warner wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2006 14:22:44 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > Running the cables under the tape is nice, but, IMO, repairability/
> > changeability (e.g., 9SP to 10SP) and getting rid of the ~%!&^*
> > Shimano indexed front shifting are the biggest attractions.
>
> Not to the majority of people looking to buy a new road bike, IME.
> At that point, before any scratches have appeared to mar its
> beauty, cosmetics really matter.
>

Okay...


> As for the indexed front, once I understood how the trim works
> I've never had any trouble setting it up, and I've never heard anyone
> else complain about it, either.

It's not *just* about proper setup, it's more about the restrictions
indexed front shifting imposes in terms of FD choice, brifter choice,
chainring choice, etc.



> OTOH, my one experience with
> helping someone with Campy was that setting the outer limit
> screw to make shifting out quick and reliable but avoid throwing the
> chain was a bit fiddly.

That shouldn't be a problem. Check FD alignment, height and, perhaps,
the chainline.

> At least it doesn't seem to need further attention
> so far.
>

And it probably won't.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article
> > <[email protected]>
> > ,
> > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Since it is a free market, if these components are overpriced, Shimano
> > > will have to lower prices to maintain sales volume or accept reduced
> > > sales.
> >
> > Not a free market. Shimano parts on many bicycles
> > because they make it easy and cheap to install their
> > groups on a bicycle.
>
> Shimano sells their product at low prices to their prime customers, the
> OEMs. Then, they inflate the "retail" prices of their component groups
> (e.g., 105, Ultegra and D-A) to make the Shimano equipped bikes look
> like an excellent value. That's what the "Shimano Authorized Internet
> Dealer" scheme is all about.
>
>
> > Most people will never consider
> > replacing a Shimano part with a Campagnolo part.
> >
>
> IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.

They do..remember Campag makes a shimano compatible freehub body and
10s ERGO works well with shimano 9s cogs/chain. shimano would never
consider adding a Campag compatible freehub to their offerings.
'shimano' compatibility, meaning use with a shimano RD? Why? Campag
makes many rear derailleurs, their aluminum models, very much like DA,
for less $.

 

[[email protected]]

bfd wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Michael Warner wrote:
> >> On 30 Oct 2006 05:12:39 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >>
> >> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> >> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> >> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
> >>
> >> Many people like the idea of routing the gear cables under the bar
> >> tape, but stick with Shimano for other reasons. IMHO Campy would
> >> sell a lot of Shimano-compatible shifters, if they could swallow their
> >> pride a little.
> >
> > What is ridiculous is that Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM can not agree
> > on standard spacing and derailer pull so everything would be
> > interchangeable. It is as annoying as the existence of different
> > tire/wheel sizes that differ by only a few millimeters. Arrrrrrgh!
> >
> Actually, for 10 speed, it is my understanding that the difference between
> the "big 3" is so little that it basically doesn't make any difference. The
> biggest difference, at least between Campy and Shimano, was 9 speed spacing.

It makes a difference for me. I only use Campagnolo hubs. Shimano
cassettes do not fit on Campagnolo hubs. And Campagnolo cassettes do
not fit on Shimano hubs. So Shimano people cannot get a 13-29 10 speed
cassette for more mountainous riding. The rear derailleurs are not
interchangeable. You cannot use one brand rear derailleur with
another's shifters.

> Actually, for 10 speed, it is my understanding that the difference between
> the "big 3" is so little that it basically doesn't make any difference.

How did you ever come to that conclusion? And who is the "big 3"? I'm
guessing you think SRAM is already one of the "big 3" when they just
created and released their road group to the public a couple months
ago. Internet bicyclists.

 

[[email protected]]

bfd wrote:
> "Artoi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> >> compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> >> effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
> >
> > So why would you want to pick Shimano
> > derailleurs/cassettes/chainrings/cranks if you are willing to pay for
> > Campag shifters?
> >
> Some people prefer Shimano cassettes because of the wider range. Since Campy
> is focused on "racing only," the largest cassette offered is a 29t.

How big a rear cog does Shimano offer in 10 speed? What? 27 teeth you
say. 29 is bigger than 27. Shimano has a smaller range of cassettes
in 10 speed spacing.



For
> those who tour or need more, i.e., 32t or 34t, in the rear, the only other
> option is Shimano.

Road bikes have been 10 speed for several years now. Campagnolo since
2000 and Shimano since 2004 or 2005. Dura Ace, Ultegra, and 105 are
only sold as 10 speed today. Campagnolo's upper models are only 10
speed now. Go to a local bike shop and try to find a 2006 or 2007
medium priced road bike with 9 speed.



>
> > In any case, I understand there are third party RD adaptors for this
> > purpose while the FD can be easily used with Campag Lt shifter.
> >
> > http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
> > --
> That right. Some have even been able to use a Shimano cassette with Campy
> ergo levers/rear der without one of those devices. Of course, Campy left
> ergo lever, the one tha shifts the front, is a ratchet and easily compatible
> with any front der.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > Michael Press wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <[email protected]>
> > > ,
> > > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since it is a free market, if these components are overpriced, Shimano
> > > > will have to lower prices to maintain sales volume or accept reduced
> > > > sales.
> > >
> > > Not a free market. Shimano parts on many bicycles
> > > because they make it easy and cheap to install their
> > > groups on a bicycle.
> >
> > Shimano sells their product at low prices to their prime customers, the
> > OEMs. Then, they inflate the "retail" prices of their component groups
> > (e.g., 105, Ultegra and D-A) to make the Shimano equipped bikes look
> > like an excellent value. That's what the "Shimano Authorized Internet
> > Dealer" scheme is all about.
> >
> >
> > > Most people will never consider
> > > replacing a Shimano part with a Campagnolo part.
> > >
> >
> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
>
> They do..remember Campag makes a shimano compatible freehub body and
> 10s ERGO works well with shimano 9s cogs/chain. shimano would never
> consider adding a Campag compatible freehub to their offerings.
> 'shimano' compatibility, meaning use with a shimano RD?

Yes.

> Why? Campag
> makes many rear derailleurs, their aluminum models, very much like DA,
> for less $.

Picture this scenario, which is far from uncommon: customer has a
Shimano speced bike, the STI brifters fail. If Campy offered a Shimano
compatible brifter, the customer could replace the STI brifters with
Ergo without jumping through any other hoops.Good for the customer, who
is getting a better product, and also good for Campy, who would be
taking advantage of the weaknesses in the Shimano design to gain market
share. This could also lead to the customer seeking out Campy
components or a Campy speced new bike in the future.

 

[Artoi]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> It makes a difference for me. I only use Campagnolo hubs. Shimano
> cassettes do not fit on Campagnolo hubs. And Campagnolo cassettes do
> not fit on Shimano hubs. So Shimano people cannot get a 13-29 10 speed
> cassette for more mountainous riding. The rear derailleurs are not
> interchangeable. You cannot use one brand rear derailleur with
> another's shifters.

There's actually an adaptor for this purpose.

http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
--

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>
,
[email protected] wrote:

> bfd wrote:
> > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Michael Warner wrote:
> > >> On 30 Oct 2006 05:12:39 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > >> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > >> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
> > >>
> > >> Many people like the idea of routing the gear cables under the bar
> > >> tape, but stick with Shimano for other reasons. IMHO Campy would
> > >> sell a lot of Shimano-compatible shifters, if they could swallow their
> > >> pride a little.
> > >
> > > What is ridiculous is that Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM can not agree
> > > on standard spacing and derailer pull so everything would be
> > > interchangeable. It is as annoying as the existence of different
> > > tire/wheel sizes that differ by only a few millimeters. Arrrrrrgh!
> > >
> > Actually, for 10 speed, it is my understanding that the difference between
> > the "big 3" is so little that it basically doesn't make any difference. The
> > biggest difference, at least between Campy and Shimano, was 9 speed spacing.
>
> It makes a difference for me. I only use Campagnolo hubs. Shimano
> cassettes do not fit on Campagnolo hubs. And Campagnolo cassettes do
> not fit on Shimano hubs. So Shimano people cannot get a 13-29 10 speed
> cassette for more mountainous riding. The rear derailleurs are not
> interchangeable. You cannot use one brand rear derailleur with
> another's shifters.

Real men ride a 23 cog sprocket in the mountains. If
you cannot turn one of those babies, then get a third
chain wheel as I did. 13-29, for pity's sake. The gears
are too wide apart for efficiency.

--
Michael Press

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > Michael Press wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > ,
> > > > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Since it is a free market, if these components are overpriced, Shimano
> > > > > will have to lower prices to maintain sales volume or accept reduced
> > > > > sales.
> > > >
> > > > Not a free market. Shimano parts on many bicycles
> > > > because they make it easy and cheap to install their
> > > > groups on a bicycle.
> > >
> > > Shimano sells their product at low prices to their prime customers, the
> > > OEMs. Then, they inflate the "retail" prices of their component groups
> > > (e.g., 105, Ultegra and D-A) to make the Shimano equipped bikes look
> > > like an excellent value. That's what the "Shimano Authorized Internet
> > > Dealer" scheme is all about.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Most people will never consider
> > > > replacing a Shimano part with a Campagnolo part.
> > > >
> > >
> > > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
> >
> > They do..remember Campag makes a shimano compatible freehub body and
> > 10s ERGO works well with shimano 9s cogs/chain. shimano would never
> > consider adding a Campag compatible freehub to their offerings.
> > 'shimano' compatibility, meaning use with a shimano RD?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Why? Campag
> > makes many rear derailleurs, their aluminum models, very much like DA,
> > for less $.
>
> Picture this scenario, which is far from uncommon: customer has a
> Shimano speced bike, the STI brifters fail. If Campy offered a Shimano
> compatible brifter, the customer could replace the STI brifters with
> Ergo without jumping through any other hoops.

Buthe could get the ERGO and add the Campag Rder, and it would work
fine with shimano 9s. No need to sulley the group up with a shimano RD.


Good for the customer, who
> is getting a better product, and also good for Campy, who would be
> taking advantage of the weaknesses in the Shimano design to gain market
> share. This could also lead to the customer seeking out Campy
> components or a Campy speced new bike in the future.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>
> ,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > bfd wrote:
> > > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > Michael Warner wrote:
> > > >> On 30 Oct 2006 05:12:39 -0800, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > > >> > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > > >> > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
> > > >>
> > > >> Many people like the idea of routing the gear cables under the bar
> > > >> tape, but stick with Shimano for other reasons. IMHO Campy would
> > > >> sell a lot of Shimano-compatible shifters, if they could swallow their
> > > >> pride a little.
> > > >
> > > > What is ridiculous is that Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM can not agree
> > > > on standard spacing and derailer pull so everything would be
> > > > interchangeable. It is as annoying as the existence of different
> > > > tire/wheel sizes that differ by only a few millimeters. Arrrrrrgh!
> > > >
> > > Actually, for 10 speed, it is my understanding that the difference between
> > > the "big 3" is so little that it basically doesn't make any difference. The
> > > biggest difference, at least between Campy and Shimano, was 9 speed spacing.
> >
> > It makes a difference for me. I only use Campagnolo hubs. Shimano
> > cassettes do not fit on Campagnolo hubs. And Campagnolo cassettes do
> > not fit on Shimano hubs. So Shimano people cannot get a 13-29 10 speed
> > cassette for more mountainous riding. The rear derailleurs are not
> > interchangeable. You cannot use one brand rear derailleur with
> > another's shifters.
>
> Real men ride a 23 cog sprocket in the mountains. If
> you cannot turn one of those babies, then get a third
> chain wheel as I did. 13-29, for pity's sake. The gears
> are too wide apart for efficiency.
>

Agreed. If you are not a racer and want/need low gears, a triple with a
'tight' cassette in the rear is the most sensible approach. You spend
most of your time in the middle ring with nice close steps between
gears, using the inner for the steep ups and the outer for the steep
downs. IMO,YMMV, etc., etc.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > > Michael Press wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > ,
> > > > > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Since it is a free market, if these components are overpriced, Shimano
> > > > > > will have to lower prices to maintain sales volume or accept reduced
> > > > > > sales.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not a free market. Shimano parts on many bicycles
> > > > > because they make it easy and cheap to install their
> > > > > groups on a bicycle.
> > > >
> > > > Shimano sells their product at low prices to their prime customers, the
> > > > OEMs. Then, they inflate the "retail" prices of their component groups
> > > > (e.g., 105, Ultegra and D-A) to make the Shimano equipped bikes look
> > > > like an excellent value. That's what the "Shimano Authorized Internet
> > > > Dealer" scheme is all about.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Most people will never consider
> > > > > replacing a Shimano part with a Campagnolo part.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > IMO, Campagnolo would do a brisk business if they made Shimano
> > > > compatability an option on their Ergo brifters. It would be an
> > > > effective way to bring cyclists into the Campy family.
> > >
> > > They do..remember Campag makes a shimano compatible freehub body and
> > > 10s ERGO works well with shimano 9s cogs/chain. shimano would never
> > > consider adding a Campag compatible freehub to their offerings.
> > > 'shimano' compatibility, meaning use with a shimano RD?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > Why? Campag
> > > makes many rear derailleurs, their aluminum models, very much like DA,
> > > for less $.
> >
> > Picture this scenario, which is far from uncommon: customer has a
> > Shimano speced bike, the STI brifters fail. If Campy offered a Shimano
> > compatible brifter, the customer could replace the STI brifters with
> > Ergo without jumping through any other hoops.
>
> Buthe could get the ERGO and add the Campag Rder, and it would work
> fine with shimano 9s. No need to sulley the group up with a shimano RD.
>

Yes, but that limits users to 9SP and requires a new RD. Too many
limitations to be widely adopted, IMO.

I know this (a Shimano compatible Ergo brifter) will never happen, but
it would be a good idea.
>
> > Good for the customer, who
> > is getting a better product, and also good for Campy, who would be
> > taking advantage of the weaknesses in the Shimano design to gain market
> > share. This could also lead to the customer seeking out Campy
> > components or a Campy speced new bike in the future.

 

[[email protected]]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:

> Since it is a free market,

There is no "free market".

Before you gastriculate, remember you admit to the horror of Microsoft
elsewhere in this thread. "They never fixed DOS", either.

And mentioned national government or governments "protecting" home
markets.

> if these components are overpriced, Shimano
> will have to lower prices to maintain sales volume or accept reduced
> sales.

Dura-ace, like MS, is deliberately overpriced. Gorillas can do that.
Nothing "free" about it. --D-y

 

[Solvang Cyclist]

Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote in news:jack-B50C31.01362601112006
@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:

> Real men ride a 23 cog sprocket in the mountains. If
> you cannot turn one of those babies, then get a third
> chain wheel as I did. 13-29, for pity's sake. The gears
> are too wide apart for efficiency.
>

On a Campy 10-speed 13-29 cluster, the first five cogs are: 13-14-15-16-
17. Can't get much tighter than that.

I switched from a 6-speed cluster and "half-step+granny" triple to this
setup and the steps from gear-to-gear in the most usable range is still
in the 6-7% range with both setups.

Sure, a newer compact with more than 6 cogs would help the "compact"
setup, but there is still the issue that you tend to need more of the
combinations that stress the chain and you also need smaller cogs, which
results in faster wear.

It's all a trade off. I don't have anything against compact gearing, but
conventional setups work too. Both designs have their advantages and
disadvantages.

Cheers,
David

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

bfd wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >. As for 'better product at lower price', I
> > say Centaur is a much better product at a lower price than Ultegra,
> > Chorus is a much better product at a lower price than DA....BUT so much
> > goes into buying decisions
>
> I use to agree that Centaur was the best deal around. However, for 2007, its
> my understanding that Campy has changed Centaur for the worse. Centaur hubs
> use to be Record without the fancy dustcaps. For 2007, its now fancier
> version of Veloce/Mirage (i.e., cartridge bearing) and not Record level.
> Similarly, the Centaur ergo levers, although with bushings instead of
> bearings, was the best buy in shifters. However, for 2007, it has something
> called QR and now doesn't have the downshift capability of Record/Chorus. I
> haven't seen the new 2007 cranks yet so I'll reserve coment.

Centaur for 2007 is 'interesting'. Carbon levers, but ala Xenon
innards, carbon body for the RD..but Veloce hubs and aluminum
crank(good idea IMO)..Levers became like Sram, but added carbon,
downgraded hubs..STILL a bargain when compared to Ultegra or Rival tho-

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > Since it is a free market,
>
> There is no "free market".
>
> Before you gastriculate, remember you admit to the horror of Microsoft
> elsewhere in this thread. "They never fixed DOS", either.
>
> And mentioned national government or governments "protecting" home
> markets.
>
> > if these components are overpriced, Shimano
> > will have to lower prices to maintain sales volume or accept reduced
> > sales.
>
> Dura-ace, like MS, is deliberately overpriced. Gorillas can do that.
> Nothing "free" about it. --D-y

However, no one NEEDS Dura-Ace (or Record for that matter) except for
top level racers (who do not pay for their components anyhow). If
people choose to buy overpriced components that is their problem.

A smart rider would buy last year's Shimano 105 which would end up
costing a small fraction of this year's Dura-Ace, and would only pay a
small weight and cosmetic penalty for equivalent function [1].

[1] If the riders rode identical frames with Dura-Ace and 105, but had
a skirt mounted that blocked the view of the bicycle, I doubt most
could tell the difference.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 31 Oct 2006 06:41:03 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>How big a rear cog does Shimano offer in 10 speed? What? 27 teeth you
>say. 29 is bigger than 27. Shimano has a smaller range of cassettes
>in 10 speed spacing.

I believe that Sram has an 11/34 x 10 sp Shimano now.