Campy Record Ghost Shifting...



teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
Did some homework on the search engine and will have some good items to check out on the stand but I might have a couple good indicators that could help pinpoint the solution...

I have Record derailer/chain and running a new chorus (consumeable!) 11-25 on a rebuilt mavic hubset (read: zero hub bushing play/slop). I've been swapping wheelsets around and while I didn't have any ghosting on the last set (williams 30/same cassette), it has surfaced in spades on the Mavics.

Adjusted the derailer and noticed that it doesn't settle in the same spot if coming down to, say, the 16 tooth cog than when I come up to it (when coming down/outboard, the derailer settles farther outboard than when I come up from the 15 tooth). I noticed that the attach barrel for the derailer has a bit of 'slop' (i.e. I can grab the body of the derailer and it will ever so slightly rotate or wobble on the 5?mm attach screw to the hanger). Is this normal?

Set has low miles and chain specs as new. Getting an idea that if my derailer is settling at different points when going down vice going up, then I may have a cable restriction issue. Of note- when I rebuilt the mavic hub, the new hub bushing is a POS (sticks to rubber hub seal! Don't buy the rebuild kit from 'bay) and this resulted in one locked derailer (back pedaled, hub didn't move and the result was my bottom chain sucking the derailer into the lower chainstay...#$!%). Don't know if this incident has contributed to my current dilemma or not...hopefully not!

Appreciate your thoughts/comments/smart remarks.

~John
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
6,723
254
63
Did you (re-)adjust the Hi-Lo stops on your rear derailleur + adjust the indexing accordingly?

I don't know how the Williams freehub body is offset, but I'm pretty sure that the MAVIC wheel's freehub body is probably offset closer to the driveside dropout than many other Campagnolo-compatible freehub bodies.
 

teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
affirmativo on the indexing. Did a cable 'tension' check through all the gears, inspecting all cable lug inserts and couldn't help but notice this rubber guibo cable condom...or whatever the hell it is...(photo below). It certainly must do something....anybody know what the heck the purpose is of this sleeve that is just prior to the rear derailer cable lug? Is it supposed to be pulled over the plastic sleeve so it never hits the lug? Right now it runs into the lug when shifting thru 13/12/11 cogs (as cable tension 'loosens', this sleeve runs aft smack into the lug. Must cause some sort of binding, no?)
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
310
0
teamgomez said:
affirmativo on the indexing. Did a cable 'tension' check through all the gears, inspecting all cable lug inserts and couldn't help but notice this rubber guibo cable condom...or whatever the hell it is...(photo below). It certainly must do something....anybody know what the heck the purpose is of this sleeve that is just prior to the rear derailer cable lug? Is it supposed to be pulled over the plastic sleeve so it never hits the lug? Right now it runs into the lug when shifting thru 13/12/11 cogs (as cable tension 'loosens', this sleeve runs aft smack into the lug. Must cause some sort of binding, no?)

It looks like you found your problem.
 

teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
alienator said:
It looks like you found your problem.

Any idea what it's for and if it should be pulled forward over the cable sleeve? Since it was only butting up against the lug going thru the 3 outboard cogs, I don't think it would account for any ghosting on the inboard (high wire tension) cogs.

Makes me pine for my faithful Ultegra...
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
6,723
254
63
teamgomez said:
affirmativo on the indexing. Did a cable 'tension' check through all the gears, inspecting all cable lug inserts and couldn't help but notice this rubber guibo cable condom...or whatever the hell it is...(photo below). It certainly must do something....anybody know what the heck the purpose is of this sleeve that is just prior to the rear derailer cable lug? Is it supposed to be pulled over the plastic sleeve so it never hits the lug? Right now it runs into the lug when shifting thru 13/12/11 cogs (as cable tension 'loosens', this sleeve runs aft smack into the lug. Must cause some sort of binding, no?)
I have never used (OR, seen) that extra 'condom' on my rear derailleur cable ...

So, if I were you, I would remove it and see if that corrects the shifting problem.

Heck, not only would I remove that extra piece-of-whatever, I would cut-and-fit a new piece of housing for the last run between the cable stop on the stay & the rear derailleur.

Who originally set up your bike?
 

teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
alfeng said:
I have never used (OR, seen) that extra 'condom' on my rear derailleur cable ...

So, if I were you, I would remove it and see if that corrects the shifting problem.

Heck, not only would I remove that extra piece-of-whatever, I would cut-and-fit a new piece of housing for the last run between the cable stop on the stay & the rear derailleur.

Who originally set up your bike?

Bike was purchased from a former Specialized Exec (one of his garage queens) so I'm only assuming it was set up by the 'factory'. I do have cable housing from the lug to the rear derailer...curious why you'd fit another one (the one currently present is a Campagnolo cable).
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
310
0
teamgomez said:
Bike was purchased from a former Specialized Exec (one of his garage queens) so I'm only assuming it was set up by the 'factory'. I do have cable housing from the lug to the rear derailer...curious why you'd fit another one (the one currently present is a Campagnolo cable).

You'd fit a new one just to start fresh, in case there are problems with that section of old cable. It's inexpensive and easy to do. Also keep in mind that when you change rear wheels, you typically have to readjust the tension on the rear derailleur cable to account for a slightly different position of the cassette.
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
6,723
254
63
teamgomez said:
Bike was purchased from a former Specialized Exec (one of his garage queens) so I'm only assuming it was set up by the 'factory'. I do have cable housing from the lug to the rear derailer...curious why you'd fit another one (the one currently present is a Campagnolo cable).
When in doubt, throw it out ...

BTW. I love Campagnolo cables & housing, but I'm not convinced that the parallel stranded core that Campagnolo & Shimano use for their derailleur housing is better than a coiled core ...

I would rather use generic brake housing which takes about a 1/2 minute to lube for my derailleur cables because I also don't like the way the stranded derailleur cable housing acts when the ends aren't capped ... it's a minor nuisance, but a nuisance nonetheless.

Shimano cables are great, too; but, I don't like the seemingly zero tolerance of the minimalist inner diameter of the Shimano derailleur housing, in particular ... an unnecessary nuisance which seems fraught with potential problems.
 

teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
Might have scared the ghost outta the closet this morning....while on a sat am club ride, my derailer became possessed and basically gave me the bird on our 20 min/8% ascent. Not until I started to feel the tell-tale signature of a frayed cable did I realized wtf was happening. Peeled off the ride at RTB'd to find that the entire length of cable inside the housing that goes from the shifter to the lug had 'spun' a strand of shift cable and had it wadded along its length.

I wanted to re-route the shifter cable anyways (prev owner had the shift cable routed on the aft portion of the barmac...felt unnatural) and one new shift cable later, I might have exorcised the ghost.

BTW- LBS sold me a Mark 1/Mod 1 generic shift cable after he ground off the leaded bead to get it down to .152" diameter to fit in the Record shifter recess. He assured me the cable performance is identical...we'll see.

Appreciate the thoughts and comments-

~John
 
Dec 30, 2007
2,111
8
0
teamgomez said:
Might have scared the ghost outta the closet this morning....while on a sat am club ride, my derailer became possessed and basically gave me the bird on our 20 min/8% ascent. Not until I started to feel the tell-tale signature of a frayed cable did I realized wtf was happening. Peeled off the ride at RTB'd to find that the entire length of cable inside the housing that goes from the shifter to the lug had 'spun' a strand of shift cable and had it wadded along its length.

I wanted to re-route the shifter cable anyways (prev owner had the shift cable routed on the aft portion of the barmac...felt unnatural) and one new shift cable later, I might have exorcised the ghost.

BTW- LBS sold me a Mark 1/Mod 1 generic shift cable after he ground off the leaded bead to get it down to .152" diameter to fit in the Record shifter recess. He assured me the cable performance is identical...we'll see.

Appreciate the thoughts and comments-

~John

LBS should step up and get the Mark1/Mod 2 der inner wire. Jagwire, small head, for Campagnolo (OR shimano/sram). Not expensive.
 

teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
Just ditched the 'generic' cable for a jagwire 'Ripcord' derailer cable...it is a slightly smaller diameter cable but coated in black teflon. Looks pretty cool but the shifting 'liveliness' is where this cable begins to shine. Hands-down head and shoulders above the bogus generic job- drivetrain FINALLY shifts the way a Campy Record oughta....now we'll see how long the teflon lasts b/f I need to restring it but right now I find the hassle/expense well worth the performance bonus :)

Drivetrain now shifts with laser accuracy (Peter, paddles would give it an _OK_ thanks for the Jagwire tipper)
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
310
0
Why did you go with Jagwire instead of Campy cables? I've noticed maybe a small difference between Ripcord and Campy performance, but that difference is likely in my head. I think fit and finish of the Campy kit is better.
 

teamgomez

New Member
Aug 23, 2005
120
0
0
Based on the recommendation and the ease of purchasing one cable versus finding a single campy cable (I kept finding the kits for $36 versus four bucks for the one I needed).

No complaints on the finish of the Ripcord....can't say I've ever noticed anybody's exposed cables being black before...I like that the cable is teflon coated so no exposure to the elements (granted...this one doesn't see many 'elements' save for a lot of O2 and N...)