Campy Veloce vs. Shimano 105

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Evo, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. Evo

    Evo New Member

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    I'm about to purchase a new bike in the next couple of weeks to upgrade from my grossly oversized Shogun Selectra. I'll probably be using it for commuting and maybe some inter-service sport comps (road, tri, etc) as I'm in the Army.

    First question: Is there any definate advantages between veloce/105, bearing in mind the 'all round' use I want out of this bike.

    Second Question: I've found some pf the frontrunners in the $2k ballpark figure. What are peoples' opinions on them.
    1. Trek 1400 w/105
    2. Bianchi w/veloce
    3. Cannondale R700 (2002 model) w/105 & 'dale chainrings/cranks

    Your thoughts are most appreciated.

    Evo
     
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  2. Can

    Can New Member

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    On the topic of Veloce vs. 105
    Go with Veloce, they are more expensive, but, the quality is disproportionally higher.

    As for the bikes, you have ballpark 2k if you save a few hundred more you can get a Serotta, which I have found to be one of the best bikes available on the market. They have a couple production models the Fierte and the Fierte Cross. I would go with the Fierte cross if your interested in cyclocrossing, or commuting. The Fierte is designed for the road only. There are many good frame manufacturers out there though. A build kit with Veloce or Centaur could cost you 1.1-1.3 thousand with wheels and possibly pedals, the deals vary from shop to shop.
    www.serotta.com

    I am also considering the Bianchi Veloce, it is a wonderful bike, the only drawback (in my limited judgement) is that this years double model is aluminum which has been expounded as a dangerous, weak, and impossible to repair material from the beginning of my cycling career. I have heard from the aluminum manufacturers that aluminum is a very sturdy material... I don't know how to evaluate that statement from that source... I would go ask a few bike shops what they think of frame material. The Veloce triple is a steel frame which will last much much much longer and break more safely if you ever do break it. Use Frame-Saver on the inside of the frame, and you will have very little chance of corrosion. The triple crankset has a silly reputation to the weight weinies as a grandma gear, but, it will save your knees 20 years down the road if you do a lot of climbing, or live in a really windy area, it seems a useful tool to me. Cannondale is aluminum, and I have heard nothing but bad things about it from bike shop mechanics.
    I don't know anything about the Trek model, though parts and accessories will be easier to find from the largest bike manufacturer in the world, the shimano 105 drivetrain will not be as nice as the Campagnolo drivetrains in durability or function. Many has argued about this, but, the majority of experianced people believe today, and have believed for the past 100 years that Campagnolo is the front runner for quality components. Bianchi is the Trek of Italy and also has a lot of money and brains behind it's product (arguably more) but, it is marketed more in Europe (the mecca of cycling).
     
  3. big_h

    big_h New Member

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    We are back on the old adage - Mercedes or BMW !!!!!!! ..... Yamaha or Honda !!!!!! ........ Shimano or Campy!!!!!! Both are good with proven track records. Lance uses Shimano, Schumacher uses Ferrari!!! I can only relate my own experience. I have been cycling for two and a half years with one and a half of that on our tandem. We purchased it with a Campagnola Veloce/Mirage mix. Campy just cannot stand the extra workload of a Tandem. I then switched to Shimano Tiagra. What a joy, everything is precise every time and I feel almost guilty because I do not spend any time fiddling with the bike anymore!!!!! I just go out and spin the wheels every now and then. At least the tandem is now clean all the time. You have to amke your own choise and my guess is it will be the financial one. Let us know what you did. My only real advice is to buy the best of the range your money can afford. To upgrade is extremely epnsive and sometimes unnecesary.

    Keep those wheels spinning!!!!!!!

    Big H
     
  4. rek

    rek New Member

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    Point #1.. if you can, test ride all three. I was almost set on a Giant TCR until I test rode it and found the geometry not all that comfortable. The Cannondale frame fit me like a glove, I now have a 2002 R700 and love it.

    I think the whole frame material debate has been blown out of proportion by a lot of people. IMO, tyres and frame geometry are going to influence the bike's properties far more than the "intrinsic forgiveness" (?) in the metallurgical properties of what is in effect a rigid structure. I have had 5+ hour rides on my "oh so unforgiving" Cannondale aluminium bike in total comfort.

    Steel - aluminium - carbon - titanium - whatever, if a frame fits you well, and has the balance of comfort, handling, stiffness/responsiveness and "lust factor" (let's be honest here, we're all human :) ) that you want, then that's the one for you.

    With the Cannondale you are buying a top-notch handmade frame and compromising on the components (Coda house-brand brakes, crank, Tiagra front derailleur .. though my R700 came with genuine 105 cranks.) With the Trek you are getting a full 105 group, but the frame is Trek's low-end offering.

    I don't have much knowledge of Bianchi frames .. I would assume it'd be quite good, as I can't imagine them putting their name on cheap junk.

    My take is that groupsets and parts wear out, frames don't; therefore the frame quality/fit/etc. should be your primary consideration.

    Campy vs. Shimano, meh, I have no time for holy wars, just pick the brand whose shifters feel the most comfortable and user-friendly to you. They've both been in the game a long time, and both make excellent parts.
     
  5. Evo

    Evo New Member

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    Yeah, I know about the holy wars thing (ie Holden vs. Ford, etc). I understand that that will never really be answered, but I was more interested in whether there is any clear advantages/disadvantages at that particular level ("middle-range-stepping-up-to-race-but-don't-have-the-cash" markets). I seem to be leaning towards Campy now, because of the feel and apparent longevity, but don't want to discredit Shimano at all.

    For that reason, I have sort-of had to move away from the lovely Cannondale R700, because putting a non-OEM groupset (if that is the correct term!?) seems to be very costly here in Australia. BTW, Do you know of anyone who has rides a Wilier bike?

    Thanks for your thoughts.....
     
  6. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    Another though: hand size.
    Do you have approximately Japanese or Italian sized hands?
    I would also concur with the longevity of Campag arguments.
     
  7. Can

    Can New Member

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    what if you have norwegian sized hands =)
     
  8. Andrew Court

    Andrew Court New Member

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    what exactly is a 'japanese-sized hand'? or an italian one? i didn't realise those countries were inhabited by a race of same-hand-sized folk. ;) seriously, i doubt that shimano makes shifters for little fingers, if that's what you're getting at. i think the 'go for what feels best to you' advice is sage: forget about digit length (or the length of anything else, for that matter), and go for FEEL. knowing your shifter (or top tube, or crank, etc.) is precisely the right number of inches doesn't provide much relief when your wrist / back / crack is telling you otherwise, eh.
     
  9. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    Okay I'll make it simpler. The average sized hand in Japan is smaller than that in Italy.
    Riders with smaller hands (eg many women) often find Shimano more comfortable whereas the opposite can be true for Campagnolo. Certainly this does not hold true for everyone but is something to keep in mind.
     
  10. Can

    Can New Member

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    I am still looking for a Norwegian sized shifter.. =) anyone know a good make?
     
  11. Mampara

    Mampara New Member

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    I just heard that Veloce has gone 10 speed. I can't find anything on the Campy website but a Bianchi SL with this groupset is available in SA. The groupset sells for round about $US 750 (R5500).
     
  12. spino

    spino New Member

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    Hi,
    i'm Italian, and it is very strange to see how high quality you feel the Campagnolo production against the Shimano.
    Maybe the reason it is that most of the "better" road bikes product are (were) italian made and maybe because Campy really was the KING of shifter before the Shimano's revolution in the middle of 80'.
    Before this period it's true that the Campy was the only choice and it was a great product.
    But it is true that the SIS technology of shimano and his spreading on the market (mountain bike before then road bike) changed completely the situation, Campagnolo nearly collapsed and for 15 years they have to pursue the shimano incredible growth.
    In Italy there is no doubt between the Veloce and 105, the second is sure the better, is perceived better and it's cost is double than the Veloce.
    The Veloce is less or more comparable with a Tiagra and Sora mixed and the 105 is something more than the centaur and something less than chorus.
    This is the perception of the Italian market.
    A bicicle mounted with veloce is less expensive than the same with a 105 (200 dollars of difference between)
    It is sure that in Italy the best group is considered the Dura Ace with the Record (mostly the Record Carbon) considered like a very good product but overpriced. (for a Carbon crank set is sure better a n FSA)and if you look at the shifters is plastic with a "carbo-decal")
    Basically in Italy we try to use the ULTEGRA that cost only 100 dollars more than 105, and have a great Price/quality level against the Dura ace (and it is sure better than Chorus)

    Thats all from Italy.
    P.S.: Bianchi Was a great manufacturer, now they have a losen a lot of their "name" making frames everywhere and having a medium quality oriented production.
     
  13. ant evans

    ant evans New Member

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    105 is very hard to beat. Its only measurable disadvantage is that it's heavy.

    The extra ratio is decisive for me. Even though Campag shifting isn't as good, I wouldn't go back to 9 speeds.

    Between 9 speed Campag and Shimano, there is no contest. Shimano is better value.
     
  14. Can

    Can New Member

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    That is a very suprising post by the Italian... Over here in the US we love Campagnolo. I have been to several high end manufacturers for custom bikes, and they have almost all suggested Campy for quality and finish. Apparently the Centaur is better than Ultegra in function and durability, and arguably beauty. Centaur is cheaper in most places too. I would preferably have Centaur on my next bike, or Chorus.. Though Ultegra is more easily fixed, and I have heard some mechanics say they like the way the work better (a Bianchi dealer =) I think my next two bikes are probably going to be Bianchi, despite the blaspheme above. Perhaps their quality has decreased... They are still a great balance of price to performance, their bikes are pretty, and I will be proud to ride on one =) However, Softride has some sweeeeeeet bikes =) and I want one, or two =) The only downside to their bikes are the warantees, which are typical of competitive bikes, something like 5 years, and they expect around 7 years at least, and 3 years for the beams =) If you google them, they have some amazing reviews, and they have been outlawed in international competition for giving an unfair advantage =)
    -Jacob

    p.s. Centaur is coming out with 10 speed I think in a couple new colors, perhaps black and a matte dark grey. Black would be pretty on a black bike =) vroom vroom
     
  15. Harrow

    Harrow New Member

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    Is 105 really that heavy? Does anyone have any hard figures on how much lighter a full Ultegra group set is compared to 105?

    Thanks,
    Harrow.
     
  16. rek

    rek New Member

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  17. gw709

    gw709 New Member

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    No debate - go campag (totally biased view!!!)

    I have ridden veloce 9spd for the last 3 years - no problem what so ever - Feels a little rough to start with but when it is "run" in absolueley smooth and precise - and lasts "forever"

    Veloce is coming out in 10 speed in 2004
     
  18. Peter Nugent

    Peter Nugent New Member

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    I have 10sp Chorus and Centaur on two bikes and 105 on another. A few people I know also have 105. My perception is that it is not as good or reliable as the centaur. things on the 105 seem to corrode or rattle and the shifting doesn't seem so good.
     
  19. tourdelivermore

    tourdelivermore New Member

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    I just rode 600K in Tuscany on a rental bike using Veloce components and would definitely go 105. Veloce has too many index positions on the triple between the small and middle rings. I couldn't go from the small ring to the middle ring on one throw of the front derailler. Shimano indexing is a lot more crisp, precise and efficient.
     
  20. ant evans

    ant evans New Member

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    Campag front changes aren't indexed.
     
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