Campy vs. Shimano



Originally posted by Frejus
Got to disagree in industry circles, Record stands alone on its own with the technology and material used by CAMPAG.

Chorus has a much closer relationship to DA with it use of alloy/ti rather than carbon

Centaur is aligned with Ultegra and so it goes on down the models.


Campag now have gone 10 speed almost thro its range.

From a servicing view point.....Shimano are continually changing ther models and very soon a groupset in road or MTB very soon becomes obsolete. From a bike trade point of view this becomes a real pain.

Up until recently Campag current model hub axle and cones were interchangable with Nouvo Record grouppo's of the 70,s as well as bottom bracket axles, with the introduction of sealed bb units the later ones still can be used to service a wide range of Campag and of course they have retained the square taper axles.

The price difference in countries is related to buying power and quantities purchased from Italy if you are ordering larger quantities you buy at a better price.

Some mail order 'shops' discount heavily as they do not have the Real Estate retail shop over heads and are happy to turn the stock over with smaller markups.:cool:

Note

Your ordering quantity argument doesn't stand up. Do you know Price differences are between 70 and 120% this is huge and is way to big to be explained as Quantity related.

And someting you forget Shimano may be changing faster and so making it difficult to replace things(they also change to make you buy, thats also partly why campa uses carbon in more and more parts). I have some brand new and 10 year old shimano gear and can still get parts to fit, they may not be the exactly the same but sora casette works fine on a 90's 8 speed group.

Whats a real argument older and cheaper shimano's tend to make noise in the shifters but whats also impoirtant here in belgium campa is a pain in the ass if you need spare parts from campa you'll have to wait wait and wait.
 
I test rode several bikes recently, with both Campy and Shimano. I was lucky enough to ride a De Rosa Merak with Record. IMHO, if you have the cash, Record is without a doubt the most desirable, if not the most advanced, group to get. Think about it...almost every part has carbon fiber or titanium in it, it has 10 speeds, it's incredibly light, etc. Dura-Ace is not a direct comparison when you talk about Campy Record.

Having said that, once you get beneath Record, Shimano's groups make much more sense. I feel that they are easier to buy, both price-wise and dealer-wise. More bike shops carry Shimano. They have a greater number of Shimano parts and accessories and have a better knowledge of the groups.

It may come down to operation. Shimano's STI/Brake lever combo does operate differently than Campy's Ergo. I know a number of riders that go on this preference alone.

It maybe easier to go the Campy route since it's what you have. But, I think it's worth trying out the newest groups from both. For example, if you go with Shimano, you may be able to get what ammounts to a complete Build-Kit for the price of a Campy Group alone.

Just my $0.03 worth.

Cheers!
 
Originally posted by maarten
Note

Your ordering quantity argument doesn't stand up. Do you know Price differences are between 70 and 120% this is huge and is way to big to be explained as Quantity related.

And someting you forget Shimano may be changing faster and so making it difficult to replace things(they also change to make you buy, thats also partly why campa uses carbon in more and more parts). I have some brand new and 10 year old shimano gear and can still get parts to fit, they may not be the exactly the same but sora casette works fine on a 90's 8 speed group.

Whats a real argument older and cheaper shimano's tend to make noise in the shifters but whats also impoirtant here in belgium campa is a pain in the ass if you need spare parts from campa you'll have to wait wait and wait.

Ordering quantity is what it is all about I have just spent 4 years in Europe building and contract assembling bikes for different customers.

The price differential is very real regarding quantity . The figures you quote 70-120% are created thro' the buying process....where the bike shops buy their Campag ( same with Shimano) you have a different markup being applied by certain distributors, some distributors dont get the best price because of the quantities. Then the bike shops themselves how much markup are they putting on? Some shops are happy to get a small return and value their customers....other shops put a bigger markup regardless and may have to because their overheads shop rents and staff are high.

Mail order and email sites do not have a big investment in Bricks and mortar so are happy to put a very small margin and look for volume sales.

You are quite right about Shimano changing things to create sales, innovation is a strong marketing tool.....but in Shimano's case it makes it difficult for a bike shop to service something that may be only a 3/4 years old when the parts are no longer available or been replaced by another unit model.

Campag parts are readily available ex factory the problem in Belgium maybe the shops you deal with may not be buying from the right distributors ( there are several in Belgium) Any parts service is only as good as the distribution chain in place.

The use of carbon fibre is being used more and more because of its lighter weight and much superior strength compared with aluminium, it also operates more smoothly as the fibres allow more absorbtion of shock from the road and frame. But it is a more expensive material to use.:cool:
 
I changed form Campy Veloce to Shimano Tiagra on my Tandem. The Shimano is soooo smooth and precise I cannot think why I wasted my time with Campy!!! I am definitely a new convert. Just completed the Argus with no problems.

Big H
 
My group is a Shimano Dura Ace and it is simply FANTASTIC!

I prefer Shimano, with its ergonomy and its look! It's a very good company!
 
Of course Shimano is very good and well designed.......Campagnolo also is an excellent product and has got much better since they have stuck to road grouppo's......the nice thing is all of you have is freedom of choice.:p
 
Hands down Campagnolo. Parts are made to last longer and I have only see one pair of Ergopowers fianlly 'die' come throught the shop here. Shimano STI we see many in a year needing replacement. Not to mention cassettes wear out faster than Campagnolo. And I will not go into the chain problems.

In a few months when more people are aware of Shimano's dirty tactics to edge out competition from shops, many will see how Shimnao treats dealers and in turn how customers are treated and you may feel the way we do and support Campagnolo and their fair business practices.
 
We all know what Lance uses. Sure he may get to replace things more frequently than most but, if he counts on it to win the Tour. And we all know how much ass he kicks.:D
 
Just spent the last two weeks test riding bikes in the £1000-£1500 range including OCR 0Ts, TCR 1Ts, Scott AFD Pro and Team, Litespeed Vela, Trek 1400 and 1500 - all have Shimano 105 or Ultegra components with the exception of the 2002 TCR 1T which was on offer with 10 speed campag centaur - I took the TCR for the campags alone - and saved myself a few hundred in getting last years model - I'm fairly new to this biking game - and there was no question which felt and operated better.......no axe to grind here.
 
I have used Shimano for all of the three years that I have been riding. I have a 105 on my old Giant TCR. This has served me well with no complaints whatsoever. I have done ~15,000kms on the bike and all I have changed are cassettes and chains.
I recently got a Colnago CTB with Dura ace on it (I will not bore you with how I am enjoying that bike). My LBS thought it was sacriledge having Shimano on the colnago, at the end of the day, it was my money. I chose Shimano mainly due to practicality - I have a cople of other wheels that have shimano cassettes on them.
I must say that the Dura ace has been great, but emotions apart, I don't think that the difference in cost when compared to the 105 is justified by the difference I feel.
Before the Campag crowd gets ecstatic, I tried out the record - great components but no big deal.
To me I feel that both sets are good and I will always make my decisions based on practicality - ease of repair, cost etc. Life span is not of importance to me as I know that in a couple of years I will no longer own either of the bikes I currently have.
 
6 Years is not a lot of time for Campagnolo. Are you replacing the whole group? Why not just replace the components that need it. You can use the existing derailleur with the new 10 speed, it just won't shift as good as the new derailleurs. It will shift better than what you have now though. I have two 10 speed Record bikes. The first is all new and the second is upgraded from 97 Record 9 speed. I changed the front derailleur, the Ergopower levers, new cassette (of course) and that is it. On the second bike, the shifting is dramatically improved but not as good as the all the bike. I say stay with Campagnolo. You won't regret it. You may regret changing to Shimano. The Shimano crank is too wide and those levers! Yeck! Campag is also a lot more fault tolerant. Oh, did I mention that your 9 speed will still shift flawlessly on your 10 speed drivetrain?
 
I've used Campag since 1981 (juvenile road and track racing in South Africa) and in 1987 put a Record set on a new Merckx SLX.

I started riding again last year after a 14 year break and use the Merckx with all the old kit - downtube shifters etc. as a winter training bike here in the UK. (winter conditions = rain, snow, ice, salt, mud - think Paris Roubaix on a bad day - that's normal here!)

All I've had to replace after a full winter's training is chain, cluster and a rear hub (which was from the late 60's!) Everything still runs beautifully, considering that I never clean the bike (just hose it down). Now try this with 1980's Shimano? My XC mtb bike has Shimano XT on it that's almost worn out after a year's use.

I've now also got a new Campag Record/Chorus 10sp mix on a Wilier for road racing and the same on a Fort TT bike. The shifting is precise no matter which wheels I throw on (Mavic & Campag - no gear adjustment necessary) and back up service is a pleasure (next day delivery from Campag agents)

Incidentally, both bikes are lighter by 0.2kg than Dura Ace equivalent.


I've also been advised the same about DA=Chorus & Centaur = Ultegra. Apart from all this, over here in the UK the pricing is generally that DA is marginally more expensive than Chorus, as is Ultegra vs Centaur.

In conclusion, if you are going to replace your kit every 2 years, and not worried about the weight, then go Shimano - you'll soon have the compatability issue with 9sp to 10sp though. My team mechanic (in spite of using Shimano himself for both road & mtb) *****es continuously about the amount of work he has to do on Shimano kit. He reckons that Shimano wears out smoothly and Campag wears in smoothly!
 
I have two teenage kids-both triathletes- both riding identical Peugeot racing bikes. One rides with Shimano 105's and the other has Campag Mirage- both bikes cost me the same amount to buy second hand but neither will ride the others bike..just a matter of choice!!!
 
Well - I've finally got the new bike and it's clad in Dura Ace!

If I could choose each part individually it would be as follows:

Shifters: Dura Ace - they're easier to change in a sprint - if you're in the wrong gear a pointed or semi pointed index finger gets you one gear up or down. Ergo is a bit more cumbersome

BB/Cranks: DA wins hands down - octalink's larger diameter axle makes the crank noticably stiffer (square taper cranks went out in the dark ages!!!). Hollowgram makes the cranks nice and light too.

Hubs: Mavic (as part of a mavic wheelset). Mavic beats shimano and campy hands down when it comes to the spinning things

Calipers: shimano and campy are so similar it makes no difference

chainrings, cassette and chain: Record - they last longer and are smoother (although I prefer DA's shift - crisp and quick)

Ultimately Shimano DA won out as I prefer more aspects of the group. Throw into the equation that Record is outrageously expensive in South Africa and the backup is non existent makes for an easy (and Japanese!!) decision......
 
Maarten, I disagree; Record is in a class of its own. Chorus and Durace compete against eachother.
I have had both Campy & Shimano. The Campy stuff I got >5 years on without a problem. The Shimano stuff started to need upgrades after 12-18 months.
Also, consider the size of your hands. Do you have small Japanese-sized hands or larger Italian-sized hands? You will notice increased comfort and ease of use depending on this.
 
Man this is just a big "my feathers are prettier than yours"...

I ride Shimano because it is easier to buy, it is cheaper and so forth.

Sure I could spend the big bucks on either, more $$$ and more carbon doesn't mean overall-better.

Just like the Selle Turbomatic 4... Lightest and most expensive doesn't make most comfortable or the right tool for the job...

John