Can Armstrong stay with the attack ?



DV1976

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TheDarkLord said:
Yeah, right. Just after he recently said that unless Contador proved himself, he would not ride for him. :rolleyes:


" We have 4 leaders in our team"...
In reality what he is doing is remarkable. At that age, with, relatively, little training to be where he is is really special. He undermined himself with all the hints that he would contest the win and the bruhaha from his lapdogs. Anyway i hope he rides again next year only this time for the right reasons...
 

nonns

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I just want to see an exciting race. The first bits were a little boring. I'd like to see LA finish and finish well. If he can finish on the podium great. If he can win even better. But then the same goes for Cadel Evans, Sastre and Wiggins. Best of all would be to see the best man win. That means not because someone else gets disqualified or crashes or has a miserable day through failing to take on adequate liquids etc.

I wish that they'd even things up team wise so that no one team has a total stranglehold on the race.
 

jhuskey

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Armstrong attempted to recruit Ullrich into Astana a while back but there was too much pressure from the media and Swiss Cycling.
If he had Astana would have been ,without a doubt, the greatest array of talent ever gathered together in one team.
At least there could have been a sub plot of Armstrong vs Ullrich.
I see only Sastre staying with Contador, if he has a good day.
Saxo and Garmin will need to attack like they are one team but I don't forsee success.
 

keads

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Can Armstrong win? Likely not. However, I think that this year's ride really isn't about this year. It's about next year. I fully expect that at some point this year, LA will unveil a Livestrong team to compete. His performance this year will show that he still has the star power to attract a huge base, the strength to at least hang up front, and is enough of a team player to help a teammate win - and if nothing else riding this year makes him even stronger for next year. So you get a strong Lance on a team that may hold the likely winner (whether it be LA or a teammate like LL) - what sponsor wouldn't want to get on board with that? According to LA, this has always been about raising awareness of LAF, and I personally can't wait to see what a Livestrong team looks like.
 

keads

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nonns said:
I wish that they'd even things up team wise so that no one team has a total stranglehold on the race.

Get rid of the TTT - what a bunch of nonsense.
 

nonns

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Seemingly LA has conceded the TdF to Contador - somewhat gracefully.

The article on cycling news seems to say it all.

He's going to ride for the team.
 

IH8LANCE

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mitosis said:
Armstrong has shown his cards today. After Contador took off he was leading the chase group then had Kloden drag him along. If he was a real team player he'd have let others in the group make the pace. Instead he was busting himself to keep up thinking only of himself.

That would be a valid criticism if there had been no one between Contador and Armstrong. But Schleck, and later several others, gave chase, leaving Armstrong and Kloden simply marking tempo behind them. This is going to be a long week, and anything can happen. Contador is the class of the field, and barring injury or accident no one is going to challenge him. But . . .if there is an injury or accident, Astana would sure look stupid if their 2nd strongest rider was not in a position to take the GC because he didn't ride hard yesterday for fear of dragging up some schmuck who isn't ever going to be a challenge to Contador anyway.
 

doctorSpoc

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IH8LANCE said:
That would be a valid criticism if there had been no one between Contador and Armstrong. But Schleck, and later several others, gave chase, leaving Armstrong and Kloden simply marking tempo behind them.

WRONG! not talking about Contador's final attack... watch the tape again... this is the first attack.. Frank Schleck attacks, Contador counters and gets on to F.Schleck... they get a few bike lengths gap... Armstrong fills that gap... WTF!?!?

that goes against any team tactics and even common sense for Armstrong to have filled that gap... he was just scared that that would be the tour riding away from him. did you see Andy Schleck bridging up to Frank... no that would be stupid. let some other team do that work.. that's the point of having team mates go up the road... they force other teams rider to have to work and chase them down. Armstrong's overzealous (an now everyone recognizes as ill founded ambition) got the better of him.. that is very clear. and that after he unoquivocally said he would not counter Contador if he went up the road.. at the 1st opportunity he does it. he's a jackass.. i'm so glad Contador kicked him in the teeth with that attack... how the hell is it that the best GC rider in the world has to fight for leader status on his own team... disrespectful and just down right stupid.

bottom line.. contrary to what i'm reading in the press Armstrong actually showed he can not keep up with the best climbers when the going gets tough... he was dropped by everone in contention in the end.. just as at the Giro. look for him to suffer like a dog these next few days and get blown out of the water on mt ventoux.. he's s good rider and hats off for coming off of a three year layoff.. that's pretty amazing, but he's not at the top of the sport any more. and for those talking about his chances in the ITT... Contador beat Armstrong in the the opening ITT... sure it was hilly but c'mon Contador has matured as a pretty damn good TT'er.
 

stilesiii

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I agree that it is probably over for Armstrong, he just doesn't have the form. However, I don't think Contador is unbeatable. Look at the '07 tape. He got cracked by the Chicken. True he has great acceleration, true he climbs like a billy goat, but he can be cracked. His propensity to accelerate and yo-yo has got to be used against him. If you remember, the long constant high pace set by the Chicken ultimately cracked Contador, then the Chicken was booted and Contador was handed the jersey.

IMO, the Schleck brothers could crack Contador. Andy and Frank can set and hold a high pace. We haven't seen a long uphill stage yet, all steep climbs to this point have been relatively short, which favor Contador's style. The next three stages favor Schleck, Wiggins. I think Andy and Frank have shown the aggression necessary. Considering Armstrong's lack of form, Contador can be isolated. If the Schlecks and Wiggins can isolate Contador, game on. Stay tuned this is not over.

BTW, has anyone consider Armstrong may be playing a little possum. Two brutal stages and an ITT remaining, I'm not sure Big Tex has all the cards on the table.
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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Armstrong is on the high side of 37 but I still maintain that he did not get enough time on the road this spring and that may now be a factor.
That being said I think Contador is a better climber that Armstrong ever was and this is of course debatable
 

Leafer

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Farmguy said:
I guess it is lost on a few folks that LA never said he wanted to win the TDF this year, if I remember right he said he was only there to support AC...
I guess it's lost on a few folks that winning the Tour again was the sole reason he gave for his comeback:

"Then, in almost robotic fashion, he [Armsttrong] said, “I’m going back to professional cycling. I’m going to try and win an eighth Tour de France.”

Lance Armstrong Rides Again | vanityfair.com
 

IH8LANCE

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doctorSpoc said:
WRONG! not talking about Contador's final attack... watch the tape again... this is the first attack.. Frank Schleck attacks, Contador counters and gets on to F.Schleck... they get a few bike lengths gap... Armstrong fills that gap... WTF!?!?

that goes against any team tactics and even common sense for Armstrong to have filled that gap...

Unless at that point he had not conceded that he was not up to contending with his teammate. When it became apparent that he was clearly outclassed by Contador, he did what he was supposed to do, which was get up the hill as fast as he could, without dragging any serious contenders behind him.


he was just scared that that would be the tour riding away from him. did you see Andy Schleck bridging up to Frank

No, because Andy was the one in front. But in answer to your question, yes, Frank did set out to bridge to his brother. He couldn't get there. C'est la cycling. Here are the quotes from cyclingnews live update:

16:57 CEST


Yes! Contador attacks! Andy Schleck tries to follow. The race is finally on!

<LI class=altrow>16:58 CEST


Armstrong does not respond. he looks around at Fränk Schleck, Wiggins, etc. to chase.

17:00 CEST


Evans is there, too, but doesn't look like he can do any chasing. Andy Schleck is still between the Armstrong group and Contador.

<LI class=altrow>17:01 CEST 4km/203.5km


Nocentini has already lost more than a minute. Sastre tries to come back to the Armstrong group.

17:03 CEST


Contador is likely to take the stage if he doesn't explode.
Klöden sets the pace in the Armstrong group, which also includesKreuziger and Nibali (Liquigas) riders.

<LI class=altrow>17:05 CEST


'Wiggo' attacks! But he's not going anywhere, marked by Fränk Schleck.

17:06 CEST


The older brother continues - he wants to bridge up to Andy.
Armstrong is still led out by Klöden


So, you were saying?


..
 

doctorSpoc

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when you've actually watched the stage rather than read live update on cyclingnews... come back and talk to me.

you missed one...

16:57 CEST
Fränk Schleck tries something, marked by Contador. Armstrong jst behind.

except Armstrong wasn't "just" behind.. he was several bike lengths behind and brought all the rest with him.. team tactics dictate that you can bridge if you can do so cleanly and not bring or incite rivals up to your team mate... Armstrong brought everyone up to Contador and Frank Schleck

and i said Andy did not chase Frank... not the other way around.

as i said... when you actually watch the stage... come and talk to me..
 

IH8LANCE

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stilesiii said:
I agree that it is probably over for Armstrong, he just doesn't have the form. However, I don't think Contador is unbeatable. Look at the '07 tape. He got cracked by the Chicken. True he has great acceleration, true he climbs like a billy goat, but he can be cracked. His propensity to accelerate and yo-yo has got to be used against him. If you remember, the long constant high pace set by the Chicken ultimately cracked Contador, then the Chicken was booted and Contador was handed the jersey.

You may be right, but Contador is now two years older and closer to his prime. Since then he has improved in his TTT and has shown he can win grand tours no matter where they are contested. It may be the case that a longer climb might cause him to tire, but when you look at how easily he loped up that hill yesterday my guess is that no team in this field has the firepower to cause him any trouble.

IMO, the Schleck brothers could crack Contador. Andy and Frank can set and hold a high pace. We haven't seen a long uphill stage yet, all steep climbs to this point have been relatively short, which favor Contador's style. The next three stages favor Schleck, Wiggins. I think Andy and Frank have shown the aggression necessary. Considering Armstrong's lack of form, Contador can be isolated. If the Schlecks and Wiggins can isolate Contador, game on. Stay tuned this is not over.

As I said, maybe, but Contador has Armstrong and Kloden to counter - neither of them figure to be too far behind to help Contador if he is in difficulty.

BTW, has anyone consider Armstrong may be playing a little possum. Two brutal stages and an ITT remaining, I'm not sure Big Tex has all the cards on the table.

I don't think he's playing possum, only because he had to know that the pressure would be on him to relent to Contador's leadership if he couldn't keep up yesterday. I do think, however, that Armstrong figures to be as good or better on the remaining big stages. There's no pressure on him now and Contador is the marked man. If the other contenders focus exclusively on Contador and if Contador does indeed have a very bad day somewhere down the line, who knows?
 

IH8LANCE

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doctorSpoc said:
when you've actually watched the stage rather than read live update on cyclingnews... come back and talk to me.

you missed one...

16:57 CEST
Fränk Schleck tries something, marked by Contador. Armstrong jst behind.

except Armstrong wasn't "just" behind.. he was several bike lengths behind and brought all the rest with him.. team tactics dictate that you can bridge if you can do so cleanly and not bring or incite rivals up to your team mate... Armstrong brought everyone up to Contador and Frank Schleck

and i said Andy did not chase Frank... not the other way around.

as i said... when you actually watch the stage... come and talk to me..

I did watch it. I also posted proof that you don't even know which Schleck brother was in front once the chase was on. At the point in the race that you are focusing on, no one had clearly made a break. Once Contador put his foot down, Armstrong didnt' budge. LOL. No need to come talk to you. You're following me like a good little puppy.
 

doctorSpoc

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IH8LANCE said:
I did watch it. I also posted proof that you don't even know which Schleck brother was in front once the chase was on. At the point in the race that you are focusing on, no one had clearly made a break. Once Contador put his foot down, Armstrong didnt' budge. LOL. No need to come talk to you. You're following me like a good little puppy.

here proof positive that you are blind... can't read.. using YOUR source... what a dumb ass!

16:57 CEST
Fränk Schleck tries something, marked by Contador. Armstrong jst behind.
16:57 CEST
Yes! Contador attacks! Andy Schleck tries to follow. The race is finally on!
16:58 CEST
Armstrong does not respond. he looks around at Fränk Schleck, Wiggins, etc. to chase.

Frank attacked 1st... that attack was marked by Contador and bridge to by Armstrong who brought everyone up to it with him.

after the attack by FRANK and Contador wan nullified by Armstrong.. then and only then did Contador attack which was followed by ANDY... got it?

go watch it again and read the live update that you point to...
 

mitosis

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IH8LANCE said:
That would be a valid criticism if there had been no one between Contador and Armstrong. But Schleck, and later several others, gave chase, leaving Armstrong and Kloden simply marking tempo behind them. This is going to be a long week, and anything can happen. Contador is the class of the field, and barring injury or accident no one is going to challenge him. But . . .if there is an injury or accident, Astana would sure look stupid if their 2nd strongest rider was not in a position to take the GC because he didn't ride hard yesterday for fear of dragging up some schmuck who isn't ever going to be a challenge to Contador anyway.

When Contador first broke away there was noone between him and the chasing pack. The chasing pack was Armstrong Kloden et al with first Armstrong then Kloden leading the chase pack. So, yes, my criticism is valid.

Several minutes later there were others in the group who broke away to try and minimise their losses.



Armstrong couldn't go because he was on his limit. The fact that Kloden finished ahead of Armstrong confirms this. No way was Armstrong playing possum.
 

IH8LANCE

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doctorSpoc said:
here proof positive that you are blind... can't read.. using YOUR source... what a dumb ass!

16:57 CEST
Fränk Schleck tries something, marked by Contador. Armstrong jst behind.
16:57 CEST
Yes! Contador attacks! Andy Schleck tries to follow. The race is finally on!
16:58 CEST
Armstrong does not respond. he looks around at Fränk Schleck, Wiggins, etc. to chase.

Frank attacked 1st... that attack was marked by Contador and bridge to by Armstrong who brought everyone up to it with him.

after the attack by FRANK and Contador wan nullified by Armstrong.. then and only then did Contador attack which was followed by ANDY... got it?

go watch it again and read the live update that you point to...

The point, which you seem incapable of comprehending, is that the first "attack" by Frank/Contador was a feint. It went nowhere. Armstrong didn't have to pull anyone up with him, because that gap was "bridged" simply by marking tempo. It would have been silly and stupid for Armstrong and Kloden to slow down at that point, which would have accomplished nothing. When Contador went for real, Armstrong/Kloden did not respond. Andy did. And then Frank attempted to bridge the gap, which accomplished nothing except giving the chasers behind him a carrot to chase. If you want to criticize Armstrong for not getting off his bike and having a sandwich the moment that Contador got ahead of him, then be consistent with respect to the Schleck brothers.
 

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