Can Hincapie win?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Pista-1, Oct 6, 2003.

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  1. Pista-1

    Pista-1 Guest

    If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow him
    when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas in the
    tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is probably
    thinking the same thing.
     
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  2. <Swj>

    <Swj> Guest

    too bad that bettini is a better sprinter than george, so the chances of him coming around bettini
    or even being able to mark him the entire race are very limited. george is now known as much more of
    a classics specialist which doesn't necessarily qualify him to outsprint 'il grillo' himself. even
    when he was more of a sprinter, he wasn't really in the upper echelon. outsprinting leon van bon at
    GW doesn't really count in comparison to lets say the paris-tours duel between petacchi and zabel.
    in reference to bettini hitting the nitrous button, george can try and follow but he'll still be
    running on gas alone. i still keep my hopes up but we'll see.

    shawn

    "pista-1" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    > in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    > probably thinking the same thing.
    >
    >
     
  3. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "pista-1" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    > in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    > probably thinking the same thing.

    Hincapie has a better sprint, but Bettini has great results because he knows how to drive a break
    and he is a great sprinter from those small groups that tend to make the final break. Only if the
    course is not too selective would George have a chance of Bettini.
     
  4. Clyde

    Clyde Guest

    On 10/6/03 2:33 PM, in article [email protected], "pista-1"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    > in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    > probably thinking the same thing.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Can Kurgan "jump"?
     
  5. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "<swj> >" <[email protected]<just 'yahoo.com'> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > too bad that bettini is a better sprinter than george, so the chances of
    him
    > coming around bettini or even being able to mark him the entire race are very limited.

    No he isn't. Hincapie is usually dropped by the time Bettini wins the sprint. That is the problem.
     
  6. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Nick Burns wrote:
    > Hincapie has a better sprint, but Bettini has great results because he knows how to drive a break
    > and he is a great sprinter from those small groups that tend to make the final break. Only if the
    > course is not too selective would George have a chance of Bettini.
    >
    >

    Stage 1 of the Tour:

    1 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 3.44.33 (44.89 km/h) 2 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Lotto Domo 3
    Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Telekom 4 Paolo Bettini (Ita) Quick.Step-Davitamon 5 Baden Cooke (Aus)
    FDJeux.com 6 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole 7 Oscar Freire (Spa) Rabobank . . . 144 George
    Hincapie (USA) US Postal-Berry Floor

    Hincapie would not have finished third in this bunch, even if he had sprinted. Bettini's the
    better sprinter.

    Dan
     
  7. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > Stage 1 of the Tour:
    >
    > 1 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 3.44.33 (44.89
    km/h)
    > 2 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Lotto Domo 3 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Telekom 4 Paolo Bettini (Ita)
    > Quick.Step-Davitamon 5 Baden Cooke (Aus) FDJeux.com 6 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole 7 Oscar
    > Freire (Spa) Rabobank . . . 144 George Hincapie (USA) US Postal-Berry Floor
    >
    > Hincapie would not have finished third in this bunch, even if he had sprinted. Bettini's the
    > better sprinter.
    >
    > Dan

    You should know better than to use one or two results to "prove" who is better, especially in
    sprinting. I would say in that group it should not have shocked anyone if George placed 4th and beat
    Bettini in to 5th. I would have been shocked if either of those two placed third out of that bunch.
    I will concede that they are in the same class. Bettini certainly has been producing some great
    sprints the last few years and on that basis alone he kills George. I just think that George has
    nothng to fear in the World's RR except getting dropped. I will also say that there are certain
    sprints that favor each of those two. I think that George has better top end speed, although I could
    be wrong. Hell, we may never know. George hardly even gets in to those finishes any more these days.
     
  8. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Nick Burns wrote:
    > "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    >
    >>Stage 1 of the Tour:
    >>
    >>1 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 3.44.33 (44.89
    >
    > km/h)
    >
    >>2 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Lotto Domo 3 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Telekom 4 Paolo Bettini (Ita)
    >>Quick.Step-Davitamon 5 Baden Cooke (Aus) FDJeux.com 6 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole 7 Oscar
    >>Freire (Spa) Rabobank . . . 144 George Hincapie (USA) US Postal-Berry Floor
    >>
    >>Hincapie would not have finished third in this bunch, even if he had sprinted. Bettini's the
    >>better sprinter.
    >>
    >>Dan
    >
    >
    > You should know better than to use one or two results to "prove" who is better, especially in
    > sprinting.

    I don't have time to conduct comprehensive surveys. How about stage 2? :

    1 Baden Cooke (Aus) FDJeux.com 5.06.33 (40.02 km/h) 2 Jean-Patrick Nazon (Fra) Jean Delatour 3 Jaan
    Kirsipuu (Est) Ag2R Prevoyance 4 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Telekom 5 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole
    6 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Lotto Domo 7 Paolo Bettini (Ita) Quick.Step-Davitamon 8 Stuart O'grady (Aus)
    Credit Agricole 9 Fred Rodriguez (USA) Vini Caldirola-So.Di

    Come up with some comparable results for Hincapie.
     
  9. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    >
    > Come up with some comparable results for Hincapie.
    >
    >

    Start win a race where both had the same objective.
     
  10. Fred Marx

    Fred Marx Guest

    pista-1 wrote:

    > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    > in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    > probably thinking the same thing.
    >

    How does George usually do on courses with 400 meters (2X200m) of climbing, and no measureable flats
    for 21 laps? Here's the route profile, http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/worlds03/?id=map This
    doesn't look like a very forgiving course.
     
  11. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "pista-1" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough
    > > gas in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful"
    > > is probably thinking the same thing.
    >
    > Hincapie has a better sprint, but Bettini has great results because he
    knows
    > how to drive a break and he is a great sprinter from those small groups
    that
    > tend to make the final break. Only if the course is not too selective
    would
    > George have a chance of Bettini.

    I can't help but wonder if George is not trained to win. Tyler Hamilton said in an interview
    that when he was with Postal, he was trained for setting a long, hard, steady pace in the
    mountains. George seems to be getting better and better at that same skill each year. Riis
    change Hamilton's training to give him more of the ability to attack. It certainly paid off this
    year. Hapless Hincapie needs a new team and a fresh start.
     
  12. Fred Marx

    Fred Marx Guest

    > Start with a race where both had the same objective.

    good point. George is certainly not looking for stage wins at Le Tour. It's all about LANCE.
     
  13. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > I can't help but wonder if George is not trained to win. Tyler
    Hamilton
    > said in an interview that when he was with Postal, he was trained for setting a long, hard, steady
    > pace in the mountains. George seems to be getting better and better at that same skill each year.
    > Riis change Hamilton's training to give him more of the ability to attack. It
    certainly
    > paid off this year. Hapless Hincapie needs a new team and a fresh start.
    >

    Excellent point. I never gave that too much thought, but you have to wonder. George is too loyal to
    Lance. I hope George read what Tyler had to say.
     
  14. Fred Marx

    Fred Marx Guest

  15. pista-1 wrote:

    > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    > in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    > probably thinking the same thing.

    Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San Fran,
    he might surprise.
     
  16. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > pista-1 wrote:
    >
    > > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough
    > > gas in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful"
    > > is probably thinking the same thing.
    >
    > Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San Fran,
    > he might surprise.
    >

    How is Chris' sprint? If he was with Bettini is a small break, would Horner have a chance? I kind of
    doubt it but I have not followed him very closely. On the other hand, he does seem to excel in
    circuit races and that is what the World's RR is, the most important annual circuit race.

    This actually looks like it will be a great race this year. I hope it ends up being covered in full
    or at least for an hour on OLN.
     
  17. Chris

    Chris Guest

    Actually it sounds dumb. Bettini and Hincapie are two different riders. In a flat sprint, I'd
    probably bet on George (that little Bettini is very quick, though). However, Bettini is a more
    complete one day rider, far more Savvy, not too mention confident. While he's not as strong (I say
    this from a "power standpoint; I think he's much faster in a sprint) as Bartoli at his best, right
    now he's damn good and a much better climber.

    Sounds like he's got it won...The worlds are no longer a sure thing for anyone. But if Ballerini
    holds the team in check, Bettini could well do it.

    George? Not this time, I'll bet on that for sure!

    CH

    pista-1 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    > in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    > probably thinking the same thing.
     
  18. Nick Burns wrote:

    > "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>pista-1 wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    >>>him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough gas
    >>>in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful" is
    >>>probably thinking the same thing.
    >>
    >>Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San Fran,
    >>he might surprise.
    >>
    >
    >
    > How is Chris' sprint? If he was with Bettini is a small break, would Horner have a chance? I kind
    > of doubt it but I have not followed him very closely. On the other hand, he does seem to excel in
    > circuit races and that is what the World's RR is, the most important annual circuit race.
    >
    > This actually looks like it will be a great race this year. I hope it ends up being covered in
    > full or at least for an hour on OLN.

    I finally got a chance to watch the video of the SF t-M, a few weeks after it happened, since a
    friend had it in between the last two stages of the Vuelta. To see Chris lose some time to change a
    flat (fast change by those Mavic guys, where were they when I flatted twice on my Saturday morning
    60+ mile ride?) and then charge up to the peleton and then attack and ride away with it. Pretty
    strong finisher and definitely in great form during that race. If he's still got it he could be a
    tough customer.
     
  19. In response to the subject line: No.

    Message continues below even though there is no need to expand on that response...

    "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "pista-1" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > If Bettini is such a "sure win", then Georgie should be able to mark him the whole race, follow
    > > him when Bettini hits the nitrous button, on a climb, near the end, and hopefully have enough
    > > gas in the tank to come around him at the line. Sounds easy, huh? Too bad every other "hopeful"
    > > is probably thinking the same thing.
    >
    > Hincapie has a better sprint,

    DEAD wrong.

    I challenge you to find *one* result where they contested the same sprint and George came in ahead
    of Bettini. You won't be able to. Bettini has even beaten Cipollini in bunch sprints. GH has never
    come close to that. Bettini is a great sprinter, while GH isn't *even* a sprinter.

    but Bettini has great results because he knows
    > how to drive a break and he is a great sprinter from those small groups that tend to make the
    > final break. Only if the course is not too selective would George have a chance of Bettini.

    Bettini is a breakaway master in addition to being an excellent sprinter. You are right about that.

    Here is how it will go down: Whatever break GH is in will be the one that gets caught just before
    Bettini launches the winning breakaway.

    -RJ
     
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