Can someone explain the logic behind Mavic's lacing pattern to me?

[cucamelsmd15]

I noticed the other day, looking at a set of Mavic wheels in the LBS that the non drive side is laced, and the drive side is radial. This seems kind of backwards to me. I also noticed on the new Shimano WH-550's they have done the same thing (I actually looked at picking up a set of these just to train on, any suggestions?). To me, the phyiscs of the lacing on the non drive side is backwards from what it should be. Anyone care to explain this?

 

[wilmar13]

I noticed the other day, looking at a set of Mavic wheels in the LBS that the non drive side is laced, and the drive side is radial. This seems kind of backwards to me. I also noticed on the new Shimano WH-550's they have done the same thing (I actually looked at picking up a set of these just to train on, any suggestions?). To me, the phyiscs of the lacing on the non drive side is backwards from what it should be. Anyone care to explain this?

hmmm interesting, campy wheels are laced radially on non drive side, and crossed (laced) drive side... I would like to understand why to do it the other way as well.

 

[cucamelsmd15]

Yes, I dont understand either, and I only happened to really notice after looking at those Shimanos, which surprisingly, the owner said were quite solid, although heavy at 1850+ grams. Ive searched online, but I cant find any good solid evidence as to why they are built like that.

 

[strummer_fan]

Yes, I dont understand either, and I only happened to really notice after looking at those Shimanos, which surprisingly, the owner said were quite solid, although heavy at 1850+ grams. Ive searched online, but I cant find any good solid evidence as to why they are built like that.

Mavic calls it their "Iso-Pulse" system. They say it reduces the differences in tension between the drive and non-drive side. They give an explanation on their website. At the bottom of the page link below, you'll see a bunch of icons, that correspond to individual Mavic technologies.

Mouse-over the Iso-Pulse icon and it will explain the lacing pattern, at least, as they see it.

http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?product.id=50&lg=uk#

cheers!

 

[cucamelsmd15]

Eh, I dont know what to make of that, if its BS or if its actually true.

 

[artmichalek]

Eh, I dont know what to make of that, if its BS or if its actually true.

BS most likely. The best I can figure is that with the extra bulky hub design on the Mavics, the only way to get a decent bracing angle on the drive side was to lace the spokes radially. It can't do too much for the torsional stiffness though.

 

[cucamelsmd15]

I wonder why Shimano has decided to copy it though?

 

[MichaelB]

I can see how that works. Its because the hub will twist under load a little bit so that the non-drive-side-spokes would have less tension if they were laced the same as the other side. Obviously radial lacing will require more twist to tension the spokes and transmit the torque than the laced ones so this should keep the tensions similar.

Thats my guess anyway.

 

[wilmar13]

I can see how that works. Its because the hub will twist under load a little bit so that the non-drive-side-spokes would have less tension if they were laced the same as the other side. Obviously radial lacing will require more twist to tension the spokes and transmit the torque than the laced ones so this should keep the tensions similar.

Thats my guess anyway.

maybe too much alcohol and too little sleep this weekend, but I am not picking up what you are throwing down

 

[artmichalek]

I can see how that works. Its because the hub will twist under load a little bit so that the non-drive-side-spokes would have less tension if they were laced the same as the other side. Obviously radial lacing will require more twist to tension the spokes and transmit the torque than the laced ones so this should keep the tensions similar.

Thats my guess anyway.

The tension aspect has less to do with torque than just keeping the rim centered. On a traditional wheel (3x both sides), the drive side spokes have to be at a higher tension because the hub flange on that side is closer to the center line of the rim. By switching to a radial/3x or radial/2x, the radial spokes on the left side can be oriented elbows in to reduce the effective flange width on that side. The thing is that radially laced spokes don't transmit torque very well at all, which is why you never see them on wheels for disc brakes. The Campy wheels seem to me to be the best design so far. In addition to using radial lacing on the left and crossed on the right, the G3 wheels have twice as many spokes on the right as the left. This allows them to balance the tension without having to reduce the left side bracing angle as much.
The reason Shimano copied the lacing pattern from Mavic is because they also ripped off the hub design.

 

[wilmar13]

The tension aspect has less to do with torque than just keeping the rim centered. On a traditional wheel (3x both sides), the drive side spokes have to be at a higher tension because the hub flange on that side is closer to the center line of the rim. By switching to a radial/3x or radial/2x, the radial spokes on the left side can be oriented elbows in to reduce the effective flange width on that side. The thing is that radially laced spokes don't transmit torque very well at all, which is why you never see them on wheels for disc brakes. The Campy wheels seem to me to be the best design so far. In addition to using radial lacing on the left and crossed on the right, the G3 wheels have twice as many spokes on the right as the left. This allows them to balance the tension without having to reduce the left side bracing angle as much.
The reason Shimano copied the lacing pattern from Mavic is because they also ripped off the hub design.

This makes sense... good post.