Can Teflon make you sick?



[email protected] (Muhammar) wrote:

>Teflon can make you terminally sick: the Teflon-sprayed bullets were used by hitmen to pierce the
>Kevlar body armor more efficiently. I bet that the those fine Teflon particles imbedded together
>with your bains all over the wall must be unhealthy.

This is actually a politically motivated myth. PTFE coated bullets are no better at penetrating body
armor than non-coated. A fine example of oft-repeated propaganda becoming standard "knowledge."

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
 
"Don Klipstein" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Rick wrote:
> >"Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:J2vtb.7763$Dw6.54326@attbi_s02...
> >> Rick wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >>Rick wrote:
> >>
> >> OK, here is your claim:
> >>
> >> >>>"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
> >> >>>first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead
> >> >>>birds after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.
> >>
> >> You draw a correlation between the deaths of muultiple birds in the care of rec.pets.birds and
> >> "after cooking with teflon."
> >>
> >> Any normal person would undrstand from the wording of the statement that it has to do with
> >> ordinary cooking practices.
> >>
> >> > There are formal studies on this issue, e.g.
> >> > http://www.uoguelph.ca/ahl/News5-3/Companion%20Animals.htm
> >>
> >> > The site lists five clinical studies as references.
> >>
> >> Did you actually read any of the information presented in the documents at the URL you've
> >> cited?
> >>
> >> Try this which I have copied right out of your resource:
> >>
> >> "Household cookware is the most common PTFE exposure for pet birds; problems arise when
> >> pans boil dry or unfilled saucepans are heated."
> >>
> >> Well that's an extraordinary incident, not normal cooking practice, right? But let's continue:
> >
> >Stop right there. You've conveniently skipped over this:
> >
> >"Extreme levels can cause acute death of all birds exposed,
>
> Like heating a PTFE-coated pan red-hot (1,000 F) by letting it sit empty on a burner on high?
>
> >while low levels can cause intermittent deaths over a period of time (weeks to months)"..
>
> Like from PTFE around 500 F?
>
> Please tell what is extreme and what is low and sources you can come up with saying what
> temperatures produce actual unhealthful chemical breakdown of PTFE!

Here we are debating the particulars of one reference, while literally hundreds of other references
exist. All that's required is a few minutes with your favorite search engine. Search for 'PTFE
birds' and start reading. Yes, quite a bit of this info is specious and anecdotal, but quite a bit
more IS NOT. The issue has been so well researched it isn't even debatable any more. We can argue
forever about how big of a problem it really is, that doesn't change the fact that Teflon can kill
birds and has killed birds, and can make and has made people sick.

Rick
 
In article <o1Atb.6982$cX1.775@fed1read02>, Richard Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Gregory L. Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Ahh, it's probably the truth. Everything is bad for you. It's only a matter of time before they
>> figure out why organically grown fresh fruits and veggies are bad for you.
>
>Afflatoxins.

There you go. Everything is now officially bad for you.

--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the truth... But let us beware of
publishing our dreams before they have been put to the proof by the waking understanding." --
Friedrich August Kekulé
 
"Gregory L. Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> Ahh, it's probably the truth. Everything is bad for you. It's only a matter of time before they
> figure out why organically grown fresh fruits and veggies are bad for you.

Because you can't build up defenses against the pesticides and the first time you eat non-organic
stuff, yull get really sick
 
"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<uBztb.2253>
> === Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming
> === value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green
> === ***** are whining... ===

yeah; Environmentalists do lie and misrepresent facts for their own agenda, but we need extremists
at this end of the scale to counterbalance the extremists at the other end who would rape and
pillage the environment for profit. These two groups usually bring compromise to middle ground,
where it should be. If you only had one extreme point of view they would reign uncontrolled.
 
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<uBztb.2253>
> > === Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming
> > === value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green
> > === ***** are whining... ===
>
> yeah; Environmentalists do lie and misrepresent facts for their own agenda, but we need extremists
> at this end of the scale to counterbalance the extremists at the other end who would rape and
> pillage the environment for profit. These two groups usually bring compromise to middle ground,
> where it should be. If you only had one extreme point of view they would reign uncontrolled.

Yes, siree, Bill, that's how it is supposed to work. But it doesn't, because
=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming value,
=== nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green ***** are
=== whining... ===

Even "extremists at the other end who would rape and pillage the environment for profit" were never
so psychotic as this "counterbalance", the icons and role models who want to "save the earth" with:

-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids
who shoot birds." -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it up on the spot ... for the
mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant." -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's
Guide to Strategy.

"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But that's the way we sell messages in
this society. We use hype." -- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries
like ours is the disease, not the cure." -- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice
President Gore

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the
greenhouse effect." -- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment
for the Conservation Foundation

"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be
considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian
brothels." -- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming value,
=== nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green ***** are
=== whining... ===
 
In article <[email protected]>, Bill wrote:
>"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<uBztb.2253>
>> === Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming
>> === value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green
>> === ***** are whining... ===
>
>yeah; Environmentalists do lie and misrepresent facts for their own agenda, but we need extremists
>at this end of the scale to counterbalance the extremists at the other end who would rape and
>pillage the environment for profit. These two groups usually bring compromise to middle ground,
>where it should be.

And all too often some compromise that costs more and saves fewer whales (or prevents fewer
cancers) passes because it is favored by an indiot in a high place or a congresscritter whose
district gets money from it or because it makes better sound bites or because it eliminates more
of whatever chemical was most politically incorrect that year.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
Don Klipstein wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Rick wrote:

>>This was my claim, and this is what the research shows. The fact is, when one cooks with Teflon
>>pans they are almost never completely filled; the edges of the pans can and do reach temperatures
>>high enough to release polymer fumes.

> The edges don't get 200-300 degrees hotter than where food is cooking unless you blowtorch the
> edges of the pan!

You're right. And Rick hasn't a clue.
 
Rick wrote:

snip

> Yes, quite a bit of this info is specious and anecdotal, but quite a bit more IS NOT. The issue
> has been so well researched it isn't even debatable any more. We can argue forever about how big
> of a problem it really is, that doesn't change the fact that Teflon can kill birds and has killed
> birds, and can make and has made people sick.

Lots of things *can* kill birds and lots of things *can* make people sick. I am never impressed with
media hyped hysterical responses.

Are sweeps over yet?
 
"Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:iONtb.216031$Fm2.208247@attbi_s04...
> Don Klipstein wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Rick wrote:
>
> >>This was my claim, and this is what the research shows. The fact is, when one cooks with Teflon
> >>pans they are almost never completely filled; the edges of the pans can and do reach
> >>temperatures high enough to release polymer fumes.
>
> > The edges don't get 200-300 degrees hotter than where food is cooking unless you blowtorch the
> > edges of the pan!

It's common for frying temperatures to reach 450 degrees, the difference is ~50 degrees before fumes
are released.
>
> You're right. And Rick hasn't a clue.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are coated
with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles. Another example,
a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting bulbs in his coops.

Do some research and find out for yourselves. This issue of PTFE toxicity isn't even debatable.

Rick
 
Rick wrote:
>
> "Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:iONtb.216031$Fm2.208247@attbi_s04...
> > Don Klipstein wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>, Rick wrote:
> >
> > >>This was my claim, and this is what the research shows. The fact is, when one cooks with
> > >>Teflon pans they are almost never completely filled; the edges of the pans can and do reach
> > >>temperatures high enough to release polymer fumes.
> >
> > > The edges don't get 200-300 degrees hotter than where food is cooking unless you blowtorch
> > > the edges of the pan!
>
> It's common for frying temperatures to reach 450 degrees, the difference is ~50 degrees before
> fumes are released.
> >
> > You're right. And Rick hasn't a clue.
>
> Saying it doesn't make it so.
>
> Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are
> coated with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles.
> Another example, a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting
> bulbs in his coops.
>
> Do some research and find out for yourselves. This issue of PTFE toxicity isn't even debatable.

Right. Stovetop coils are hot enough to melt salt (800 Celsius), and user error with a PTFE-coated
pan sitting on them can heat the PTFE to ~600 Celsius, except it's long gone by then -- turned to,
according to a former sci.chem poster, "fluorophosgene (really nasty), fluorolefins (nasty),
fluorolefin epoxides (really, really nasty)", with the fluorolefins including of course TFE,
"enormously toxic by inhalation".

When this stuff goes up, birds in same basement go down and stay down. This I know from a family
member's observation.

Self-cleaning ovens are lined with catalytic rare earth oxide.

--- Graham Cowan http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.doc -- fireproof fuel, real-car
range, no emissions
 
Rick wrote:

> Do some research and find out for yourselves. This issue of PTFE toxicity isn't even debatable.

High temperature toxicity hasn't been argued against. What is at issue is the rather limited
conditions under which they are toxic. You keep making it sound as though it is toxic under most
conditions usual to cooking.

Where the heck are all the sick and dead people?
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Rick" <[email protected]> said:

> Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are
> coated with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles.
> Another example, a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting
> bulbs in his coops.

Slight topic drift here: *why* were they coated with PTFE? Was there a problem with feather
fragments or other odd gunk floating up on air convection currents and adhering to regular bulbs?

-- William December Starr <[email protected]
 
"William December Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Rick" <[email protected]> said:
>
> > Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are coated
> > with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles. Another
> > example, a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting bulbs in his
> > coops.
>
> Slight topic drift here: *why* were they coated with PTFE? Was there a problem with feather
> fragments or other odd gunk floating up on air convection currents and adhering to regular bulbs?

No, PTFE is used on some bulbs because of its heat-resistant properties. See:
http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/part8.php

Rick
 
Rick wrote:

> "William December Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

>>In article <[email protected]>, "Rick" <[email protected]> said:

>>>Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are
>>>coated with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles.
>>>Another example, a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting
>>>bulbs in his coops.

>>Slight topic drift here: *why* were they coated with PTFE? Was there a problem with feather
>>fragments or other odd gunk floating up on air convection currents and adhering to regular bulbs?

> No, PTFE is used on some bulbs because of its heat-resistant properties. See:
> http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/part8.php

The gullbility police demand you provide a light bulb manufacturer's web page.
 
"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "William December Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, "hanson"
> > <[email protected]> said:
> >
> > > ....a great deja vue and encore of/to the Brockobitch Chromate, the PCE groundwater scare, the
> > > Rockedyne ClO4, etc..... ....all classical hypes to make money. Get in on the act!

I am afraid I must side with 'December' and the birdman. Last year one day, I felt somewhat weak,
a bit hot, scratchy throat. Real vague,nothing much. I proceeded to have some blackened bacon
grease and precisely one (1) slice of bacon for dinner (I was driven to this lowly meal as I am
impovershed African-American) . All cooked on this devil-chemical, pollyterafloro ethane. (who
can pronounce this anyway?) I woke up the next morning with SEVERE flu-like symptoms, the next 4
or 5 days I thought I would die. I was almost wishing I did; hacking and choking. My entire
family fell ill soon after, with the same damn ailment! The poison gas had obviously fouled my
entire home. I cannot believe so few of you recognize this danger!
 
On 16 Nov 2003 15:53:28 -0800, [email protected] (Synthon) wrote:

>"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> "William December Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > In article <[email protected]>, "hanson" <[email protected]>
>> > said:
>> >
>> > > ....a great deja vue and encore of/to the Brockobitch Chromate, the PCE groundwater scare,
>> > > the Rockedyne ClO4, etc..... ....all classical hypes to make money. Get in on the act!
>
> I am afraid I must side with 'December' and the birdman. Last year one day, I felt somewhat
> weak, a bit hot, scratchy throat. Real vague,nothing much. I proceeded to have some blackened
> bacon grease and precisely one (1) slice of bacon for dinner (I was driven to this lowly meal as
> I am impovershed African-American) . All cooked on this devil-chemical, pollyterafloro ethane.
> (who can pronounce this anyway?) I woke up the next morning with SEVERE flu-like symptoms, the
> next 4 or 5 days I thought I would die. I was almost wishing I did; hacking and choking. My
> entire family fell ill soon after, with the same damn ailment! The poison gas had obviously
> fouled my entire home. I cannot believe so few of you recognize this danger!

Perhaps you had the flu. Sometimes an entire family will get the flu. I'm not sure why this happens.
Something about the flu being a virus that can pass from person to person and, well, families tend
to have close contact with one another so ....

Of course, it could all be a government plot. It might be a good idea to shut off your TV. Someone
might be viewing you via remote reverse transmission.
 
Dear Bill Vajik:

"Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XMTtb.165950$mZ5.1139022@attbi_s54...
> Rick wrote:
>
> > "William December Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >>In article <[email protected]>, "Rick" <[email protected]> said:
>
> >>>Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are
> >>>coated with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles.
> >>>Another example, a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting
> >>>bulbs in his coops.
>
> >>Slight topic drift here: *why* were they coated with PTFE? Was there a problem with feather
> >>fragments or other odd gunk floating up on air convection currents and adhering to regular
> >>bulbs?
>
> > No, PTFE is used on some bulbs because of its heat-resistant properties. See:
> > http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/part8.php
>
> The gullbility police demand you provide a light bulb manufacturer's web page.

URL:http://www.fixitshop.com/thestore/prods/MRC-01034.html
URL:http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/archive/13/2003/01/4/840 (of course that one is for use
underwater... not likely to hit high temp)

Go figure...

David A. Smith
 
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:10:24 -0700, "[email protected] \(formerly\)" <dlzc1.cox@net> wrote:

>Dear Bill Vajik:
>
>"Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:XMTtb.165950$mZ5.1139022@attbi_s54...
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>> > "William December Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >>In article <[email protected]>, "Rick" <[email protected]> said:
>>
>> >>>Teflon frying pans are just one issue. E.g. the interiors of some self-cleaning ovens are
>> >>>coated with PTFE, and are normally heated to 500-600 degrees during their cleaning cycles.
>> >>>Another example, a chicken breeder lost half his chick stock by using PTFE-coated lighting
>> >>>bulbs in his coops.
>>
>> >>Slight topic drift here: *why* were they coated with PTFE? Was there a problem with feather
>> >>fragments or other odd gunk floating up on air convection currents and adhering to regular
>> >>bulbs?
>>
>> > No, PTFE is used on some bulbs because of its heat-resistant properties. See:
>> > http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/part8.php
>>
>> The gullbility police demand you provide a light bulb manufacturer's web page.
>
>URL:http://www.fixitshop.com/thestore/prods/MRC-01034.html
>URL:http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/archive/13/2003/01/4/840

It might be to contain the glass envelope in case it shatters and contaminates the feed.

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs http://www3.sympatico.ca/borism/ Aurora, Ontario
 
"Don Klipstein" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Who sticks stove top pans into ovens set to 500 F and hotter, how often and why?

I broil food in stovetop pans all the time. Most oven pans have very low walls and therefore can't
be used if you are broiling with sauce or oil. Stovetop pans are also much easier to clean if the
aluminum foil leaks.

-Mike