Can Teflon make you sick?



In article <HWdub.228329$Tr4.675763@attbi_s03>, Bill Vajk <[email protected]> wrote:

>> If I take seriously what I've read here, it seems that it's quite likely that you might
>> accidentally overheat a pot to the point where it would kill a bird and *maybe* make a
>> person sick.

>That's a major leap of faith

I think your leap-of-faith scale needs recalibrating. On a scale from assuming the sun will rise
tomorrow to expecting universal bodily resurrection, my rather cautious statement above is
hardly "major".

>If they were as forgetful as you seem to think, it is likely teflon would *not* be used on
>residential cookware because there would be a lot of illness.

Presumably rather minor illness.

But I'm losing track. Is your view that leaving an empty teflon pot on the stove does not release
enough gas to do any harm, or that people hardly ever do that?

-- Richard
--
Spam filter: to mail me from a .com/.net site, put my surname in the headers.

FreeBSD rules!
 
Richard Tobin wrote:

> In article <HWdub.228329$Tr4.675763@attbi_s03>, Bill Vajk
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>If I take seriously what I've read here, it seems that it's quite likely that you might
>>>accidentally overheat a pot to the point where it would kill a bird and *maybe* make a
>>>person sick.

>>That's a major leap of faith

> I think your leap-of-faith scale needs recalibrating. On a scale from assuming the sun will rise
> tomorrow to expecting universal bodily resurrection, my rather cautious statement above is hardly
> "major".

>>If they were as forgetful as you seem to think, it is likely teflon would *not* be used on
>>residential cookware because there would be a lot of illness.

> Presumably rather minor illness.

> But I'm losing track. Is your view that leaving an empty teflon pot on the stove does not release
> enough gas to do any harm, or that people hardly ever do that?

You have lost track (teflon inhalation perhaps? :)

I say it is rare that people leave an empty teflon pot on the stove with a flame going under it.
Bear in mind that whatever incidence you bring into the discussion you'll also have to come up with
a real number showing what the ratios are.

It is likely neither of us can prove the actual case using real numbers because no one is keeping
track of the number of times individuals cook using teflon without adverse effects.

What remains is to look at the history of litigation with teflon being at the core of damage
lawsuits. How many of those have you managed to find and how does you number compare to the
incidence of other damage suits with some chemical basis?

We have lots of these sorts of life/safety threats nowadays.

Brain cancer from cell phones Brain cancer from cordless phones Cancer from x-rays emitted by
computer monitors aluminum cookware triggering Alzheimer's

(there are so many more I can't be bothered)

Now teflon coated cookware.

Back in the early 1960's when I was at Lockheed there was a draftsman with double curvature of
the spine working as a draftsman in a group of perhaps 20. A new roll of mylar was mounted on
the rack and the draftsmen began using this material for making engineering drawings. The one
fellow complained of smelling fumes coming off the roll as he pulled it and cut a working sized
sheet from it.

The next day he landed in the hospital with pneumonia. He swore it as caused by the fumes coming off
the mylar and no one disagreed with him, everyone in his group smelled
it.

Was it a danger? One man out of 20 thought so.

In the meanwhile Fairchild was busy making orbit correcting thrusters for satellites using the same
mylar as the energy source. It seems that simply rolling out a measured length of a strip of the
stuff generated a known amount of thrust by offgassing in the near vacuum.

It isn't as though the offgassing characteristics of mylar were unknown, and known to be high at
ground ambient when new. Had usenet been available and as popular I'm sure you'd be yakking about
the dangers of mylar too.
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Richard Tobin)
wrote: (snip)

>But I'm losing track. Is your view that leaving an empty teflon pot on the stove does not release
>enough gas to do any harm, or that people hardly ever do that?

My view would be that the vast majority of people would never leave things on the stove at the sorts
of temperatures that are needed to produce the nasties. If it's that hot you are going to notice (or
burn your house down maybe ? :) ).

I have left things on accidentally maybe a few times a year (in a very bad year) ... but never at
high temperatures.

Bruce

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If
it was Them, then nothing was anyone´s fault. If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, I´m
one of Us. I must be. I´ve certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks of
themselves as one of Them. We´re always one of Us. It´s Them that do the bad things. <=> Terry
Pratchett. Jingo.
 
Paul R. Mays wrote:

> "I'm from north of here" <nospam> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

>>"Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03...

>>>Rick wrote:

>>>>>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...

>>>>>.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

> If I torch a bunch of Teflon up north (northern Michigan) do you think I could make enough bad
> stuff to kill off those useless Kirkland Warblers ... I would really like to use the woods I pay
> for out of my hunting license's and them damn birds are a useless piece of animal flesh..

You have to stay to control the fire.
 
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:37:08 -0500, "Paul R. Mays" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"I'm from north of here" <nospam> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03...
>> > Rick wrote:
>> >
>> > >>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > >>news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > >>.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

>If I torch a bunch of Teflon up north (northern Michigan) do you think I could make enough bad
>stuff to kill off those useless Kirkland Warblers ... I would really like to use the woods I pay
>for out of my hunting license's and them damn birds are a useless piece of animal flesh..

Half the staff in our (where I work) parent company took the day off today. NY State southern tier
opening season.

bob
- perhaps I should take off opening day of gator hunting season
 
"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:37:08 -0500, "Paul R. Mays" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"I'm from north of here" <nospam> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> "Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03...
> >> > Rick wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > >>news:[email protected]...
> >> >
> >> > >>.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds
>
>
> >If I torch a bunch of Teflon up north (northern Michigan) do you think I could make enough bad
> >stuff to kill off those useless Kirkland Warblers ... I would really like to use the woods I pay
> >for out of my hunting license's and them damn birds are a useless piece of animal flesh..
>
> Half the staff in our (where I work) parent company took the day off today. NY State southern tier
> opening season.
>
> bob
> - perhaps I should take off opening day of gator hunting season

The gov retired me so I go to my little hole in the woods when ever I need.... But gave up gun
season deer ....just to many idiots with alcohol lubricated firearms ... But me and my trust bow
"Mildred" live there after gun season..

And I'm building a new bench rest .22 for squarll this year...

http://bennyjets.tripod.com/cannon.html

Thats my hobby....

Paul R. Mays
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Some where within the Quantum State Http://Paul.Mays.Com/story.html
http://paul.mays.com/mayday.html http://paul.mays.com/rainy.html

"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is
founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can
demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. " [Thomas Paine 'Age of Reason' 1793]
 
In article <YJeub.230107$Fm2.230962@attbi_s04>, Bill Vajk <[email protected]> wrote:

>What remains is to look at the history of litigation with teflon being at the core of damage
>lawsuits. How many of those have you managed to find and how does you number compare to the
>incidence of other damage suits with some chemical basis?

Did I say you should be able to sue for it?

>We have lots of these sorts of life/safety threats nowadays.
>
>Brain cancer from cell phones Brain cancer from cordless phones Cancer from x-rays emitted by
>computer monitors aluminum cookware triggering Alzheimer's
>
>(there are so many more I can't be bothered)

Some of them are probably true, some are probably false. Sounds like the one about teflon is true,
though minor.

-- Richard
--
Spam filter: to mail me from a .com/.net site, put my surname in the headers.

FreeBSD rules!
 
In message <YJeub.230107$Fm2.230962@attbi_s04>, Bill Vajk <[email protected]> writes
>Richard Tobin wrote:
>
>> In article <HWdub.228329$Tr4.675763@attbi_s03>, Bill Vajk
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>>If I take seriously what I've read here, it seems that it's quite likely that you might
>>>>accidentally overheat a pot to the point where it would kill a bird and *maybe* make a
>>>>person sick.
>
>>>That's a major leap of faith
>
>> I think your leap-of-faith scale needs recalibrating. On a scale from assuming the sun will rise
>> tomorrow to expecting universal bodily resurrection, my rather cautious statement above is hardly
>> "major".
>
>>>If they were as forgetful as you seem to think, it is likely teflon would *not* be used on
>>>residential cookware because there would be a lot of illness.
>
>> Presumably rather minor illness.
>
>> But I'm losing track. Is your view that leaving an empty teflon pot on the stove does not release
>> enough gas to do any harm, or that people hardly ever do that?
>
>You have lost track (teflon inhalation perhaps? :)
>
>I say it is rare that people leave an empty teflon pot on the stove with a flame going under it.
>Bear in mind that whatever incidence you bring into the discussion you'll also have to come up with
>a real number showing what the ratios are.

In terms of likelihood of the accident it is probably marginally more likely that someone will
accidentally leave a frying or normal pan on a hot light than that they will do the same with a chip
pan full of hot fat. The number of chip pan fires caused by the user getting distracted therefore
puts a lower bound on the frequency of accidents involving other types of pan.

Domestic chip pan fires are not all that unusual.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown
 
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:38:05 GMT, "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>[hanson] You are some hypocritical green turd, my friend. If anybody gets paid from the CO2
>producing industry it's you and green ***** like you in your socialist country from selling your
>North Sea oil. Stop selling your oil and we will laugh at you when watching you change your phony
>tune real fast...ahahahahaha...ahahahahha....

If US started to buy North Sea oil, gasoline prices will skyrocket very fast and use of cars decline
very fast, and then we have achieved what we want. A big reduction in US car driving.

But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production there
to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25 dollar :)

That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at a
volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
area around.
 
"Alf Christophersen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:38:05 GMT, "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >[hanson] You are some hypocritical green turd, my friend. If anybody gets paid from the CO2
> >producing industry it's you and green ***** like you in your socialist country from selling your
> >North Sea oil. Stop selling your oil and we will laugh at you when watching you change your phony
> >tune real fast...ahahahahaha...ahahahahha....
>
[Alf]
> If US started to buy North Sea oil, gasoline prices will skyrocket very fast and use of cars
> decline very fast, and then we have achieved what we want. A big reduction in US car driving.
>
> But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
> there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
> dollar :)
>
> That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at a
> volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
> perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
> area around.
>
[Alf]
== You also seem to drowning when you take a ****,
Alf, you dumb, dumb green turd.
== You, Alf, are the perfect example which shows that
environmentalism is nothing but a socio-mental disease.
== You are the perfect poster boy for all the little green idiots
who march(ed) to the beat of the following satanic drummers:

-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it up on the spot ... for the
mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant." -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's
Guide to Strategy.

"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But that's the way we sell messages in
this society. We use hype." -- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries
like ours is the disease, not the cure." -- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice
President Gore

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the
greenhouse effect." -- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment
for the Conservation Foundation

"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be
considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian
brothels." -- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids
who shoot birds." -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd

-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming value,
=== nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green ***** are
=== whining... ===
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:26:52 +0100) it happened Alf Christophersen
<[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:

>But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
>there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
>dollar :)
>
>That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at a
>volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
>perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
>area around.
What interests me is that the Dutch solar power vehicle that did win the Australian contest did 3000
km at an average > 100km /hr in 3 days... Now here most roadshave 120 km / h max speed, so it would
fit in fine. Unfortunately we do not have much sun.... But in the south of the US you would not need
ANY petrol anymore. So, what are 'they' waiting for? Car manufacturers, here MUST be a market? :)
 
"Alf Christophersen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:38:05 GMT, "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >[hanson] You are some hypocritical green turd, my friend. If anybody gets paid from the CO2
> >producing industry it's you and green ***** like you in your socialist country from selling your
> >North Sea oil. Stop selling your oil and we will laugh at you when watching you change your phony
> >tune real fast...ahahahahaha...ahahahahha....
>
> If US started to buy North Sea oil, gasoline prices will skyrocket very fast and use of cars
> decline very fast, and then we have achieved what we want. A big reduction in US car driving.
>
> But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
> there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
> dollar :)
>
> That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at a
> volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
> perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
> area around.
>

By the time that happens we'll have new farmlands in our outlying provinces. Build our new cities on
the higher lands of our new acquisitions.... Like Germany , France and scattered territories .... So
not to worry bout us dude...
L.A. Bay would make a delightful summer fishing location for vacations, fishing over all the
structure of the Old City...

I just don't see the down side....
 
"Jan Panteltje" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On a sunny day (Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:26:52 +0100) it happened Alf Christophersen
> <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
> >But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
> >there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
> >dollar :)
> >
> >That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at
> >a volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
> >perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
> >area around.
> What interests me is that the Dutch solar power vehicle that did win the Australian contest did
> 3000 km at an average > 100km /hr in 3 days... Now here most roadshave 120 km / h max speed, so it
> would fit in fine. Unfortunately we do not have much sun.... But in the south of the US you would
> not need ANY petrol anymore. So, what are 'they' waiting for?

Morning?
 
Jan Panteltje wrote:

> On a sunny day (Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:26:52 +0100) it happened Alf Christophersen
> <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:

>>But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
>>there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
>>dollar :)

>>That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at a
>>volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
>>perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
>>area around.

> What interests me is that the Dutch solar power vehicle that did win the Australian contest did
> 3000 km at an average > 100km /hr in 3 days... Now here most roadshave 120 km / h max speed, so it
> would fit in fine. Unfortunately we do not have much sun.... But in the south of the US you would
> not need ANY petrol anymore. So, what are 'they' waiting for? Car manufacturers, here MUST be a
> market? :)

Most certainly, yessir, every person must now own 2 cars, one for good weather and the
other for bad.

Oops, wait! Sometimes bad weather decends on us mid afternoon. So one vehicle will always have to
tow the other one, just in case.

An old European joke has the man carrying an umbrella approach his friend asking to borrow
an umbrella.

"But you have one hanging off you arm, my friend, have you become absent minded?"

"Not at all," replied the potential borrower,"I didn't think it would rain today so I brought the
umbrella that looks good but has holes in it."
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:21:59 GMT) it happened Bill Vajk
<[email protected]> wrote in <rQxub.241494$Fm2.241180@attbi_s04>:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:26:52 +0100) it happened Alf Christophersen
>> <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
>>>But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
>>>there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
>>>dollar :)
>
>>>That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at
>>>a volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
>>>perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
>>>area around.
>
>> What interests me is that the Dutch solar power vehicle that did win the Australian contest did
>> 3000 km at an average > 100km /hr in 3 days... Now here most roadshave 120 km / h max speed, so
>> it would fit in fine. Unfortunately we do not have much sun.... But in the south of the US you
>> would not need ANY petrol anymore. So, what are 'they' waiting for? Car manufacturers, here MUST
>> be a market? :)
>
>Most certainly, yessir, every person must now own 2 cars, one for good weather and the
>other for bad.
>
>Oops, wait! Sometimes bad weather decends on us mid afternoon. So one vehicle will always have to
>tow the other one, just in case.
>
>An old European joke has the man carrying an umbrella approach his friend asking to borrow an
>umbrella.
>
>"But you have one hanging off you arm, my friend, have you become absent minded?"
>
>"Not at all," replied the potential borrower,"I didn't think it would rain today so I brought the
>umbrella that looks good but has holes in it."
mmm the thing has BATTERIES too, read up on it. And ESA solar cells. To go short, Bushman occupied
Iraq for nothing. Never heard of that joke, probably was a US CIA joke.
 
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:04:05 -0500, "Paul R. Mays" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:37:08 -0500, "Paul R. Mays" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"I'm from north of here" <nospam> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >>
>> >> "Bill Vajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> news:T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03...
>> >> > Rick wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> > >>news:[email protected]...
>> >> >
>> >> > >>.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds
>>
>>
>> >If I torch a bunch of Teflon up north (northern Michigan) do you think I could make enough bad
>> >stuff to kill off those useless Kirkland Warblers ... I would really like to use the woods I pay
>> >for out of my hunting license's and them damn birds are a useless piece of animal flesh..
>>
>> Half the staff in our (where I work) parent company took the day off today. NY State southern
>> tier opening season.
>>
>> bob
>> - perhaps I should take off opening day of gator hunting season
>
>
>The gov retired me so I go to my little hole in the woods when ever I need.... But gave up gun
>season deer ....just to many idiots with alcohol lubricated firearms ... But me and my trust bow
>"Mildred" live there after gun season..

I understand. My brother-in-law, a NY State Trooper, and my father, a former special forces guy,
were hunting in the Southern Tier (NY state folks) a few years back with several other people.
Someone in another group managed to shoot one of my family and friend's group when several deer ran
between the groups.
>
>And I'm building a new bench rest .22 for squarll this year...
>
>http://bennyjets.tripod.com/cannon.html
>
>Thats my hobby....

Very nice.
 
Jan Panteltje wrote:

>>Most certainly, yessir, every person must now own 2 cars, one for good weather and the other
>>for bad.

>>Oops, wait! Sometimes bad weather decends on us mid afternoon. So one vehicle will always have to
>>tow the other one, just in case.

>>An old European joke has the man carrying an umbrella approach his friend asking to borrow an
>>umbrella.

>>"But you have one hanging off you arm, my friend, have you become absent minded?"

>>"Not at all," replied the potential borrower,"I didn't think it would rain today so I brought the
>>umbrella that looks good but has holes in it."

> mmm the thing has BATTERIES too, read up on it. And ESA solar cells.

A battery car then. They've been around a while. Best used locally and recharged off the grid at
night. Batteries better applied to forklifts and such. I remember REA Express battery powered
delivery trucks in metropolitan areas. They're also still in use in England for delivering milk on
fixed routes (saw and heard one in August 2000 at 3 AM).

> To go short, Bushman occupied Iraq for nothing.

Ah, you're picking up the tab then?

> Never heard of that joke, probably was a US CIA joke.

Naw, pre-CIA. I first heard it in the late 1940's from my European dad.
 
In article <[email protected]>, "hanson"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Alf Christophersen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:p[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:38:05 GMT, "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >[hanson] You are some hypocritical green turd, my friend. If anybody gets paid from the CO2
>> >producing industry it's you and green ***** like you in your socialist country from selling your
>> >North Sea oil. Stop selling your oil and we will laugh at you when watching you change your
>> >phony tune real fast...ahahahahaha...ahahahahha....
>>
>[Alf]
>> If US started to buy North Sea oil, gasoline prices will skyrocket very fast and use of cars
>> decline very fast, and then we have achieved what we want. A big reduction in US car driving.
>>
>> But big brother Bush has for a while rescued you buy occupying Iraq and control oil production
>> there to a price of less than 1 dollar pr bucket .-) While North Sea oil cost more than 25
>> dollar :)
>>
>> That's why you occupied Iraq. To get cheap gasoline in order to continue to waisting gasoline at
>> a volume of 2 l pr 10 km driving or more. Buy rather a Japanese car who use less than 0.4 l, and
>> perhaps you will not face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and
>> area around.
>>
>[Alf]
>== You also seem to drowning when you take a ****,
>Alf, you dumb, dumb green turd.
>== You, Alf, are the perfect example which shows that
>environmentalism is nothing but a socio-mental disease.
>== You are the perfect poster boy for all the little green idiots
>who march(ed) to the beat of the following satanic drummers:
>
>-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

Hanson is like his hero Goebbels -- repeat a lie long enough and hope people believe it.

>
>"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it up on the spot ... for the
>mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant." -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's
>Guide to Strategy.
>
>"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But that's the way we sell messages in
>this society. We use hype." -- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington
>
>"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries
>like ours is the disease, not the cure." -- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice
>President Gore
>
>"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the
>greenhouse effect." -- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment
>for the Conservation Foundation
>
>"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be
>considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian
>brothels." -- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany
>
>"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids
>who shoot birds." -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd
>
>-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----
>
>=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming
>=== value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green
>=== ***** are whining... ===
>
>
>
 
"Lloyd Parker, aka Parki-pooh, my cyber-mutt #4" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Alf Christophersen" <[email protected]> wrote
> >> you will face dry deserts in most of East US. And drowning of most citizens in LA and area
> >> around.
> >>
> >[hanson]
> >== You also seem to drowning when you take a ****,
> >Alf, you dumb, dumb green turd.
> >== You, Alf, are the perfect example which shows that
> >environmentalism is nothing but a socio-mental disease.
> >== You are the perfect poster boy for all the little green idiots
> >who march(ed) to the beat of the following satanic drummers:
> >

-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it up on the spot ... for the
mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant." -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's
Guide to Strategy.

"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But that's the way we sell messages in
this society. We use hype." -- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries
like ours is the disease, not the cure." -- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice
President Gore

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the
greenhouse effect." -- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment
for the Conservation Foundation

"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be
considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian
brothels." -- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids
who shoot birds." -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd

-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming value,
=== nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green ***** are
=== whining... ===

[about which Parki-Pooh, my cyber-mutt #4 groans:]
> Hanson is like his hero Goebbels -- repeat a lie long enough and hope people believe it.

[hanson] AHhahahahaa......ahahahaha......Parki-Pooh, you are so quaint, because you turn brown when
you take a green ****.
== Parki-pooh, you, like Alf, are the perfect examples which show
that environmentalism is nothing but a socio-mental disease.
== You are another perfect poster boy for all the little green idiots who
march(ed) to the beat of the satanic green drummers cited above. Thanks for the laughs, you fool,
who wants green truths to turn brown. ahahahaha.........ahahahanson
 
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:21:59 GMT, Bill Vajk <[email protected]> wrote:

>Most certainly, yessir, every person must now own 2 cars, one for good weather and the
>other for bad.
>
>Oops, wait! Sometimes bad weather decends on us mid afternoon. So one vehicle will always have to
>tow the other one, just in case.

Ever heard about hybrid cars???
 
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