Can this mother win this lawsuit?



On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:59:25 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of mine). All of them are too sloped
>or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested on the dashboard while sitting in my seat (IOW, I
>would have to take off my seatbelt and get partway out of my seat to reach). I would NEVER have
>considered the dashboard as a reasonable place to accomplish such a feat.

You have the wrong cars - never had these problems in any of mine - top of dashboards were
accessible or else consoles provided more than adequate areas of flat accessible surfaces
to do it on!
 
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:05:20 GMT, Bob Ward <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html Even in the eyes of an obviously sympathetic jury, Stella
>was judged to be 20 percent at fault -- she did, after all, spill the coffee into her lap all by
>herself. The car was stopped, so she presumably was not bumped to cause the spill. Indeed she chose
>to hold the coffee cup between her knees instead of any number of safer locations as she opened it.
>Should she have taken more responsibility for her own actions?

No sweat, in my state that would be more than enough contributory negligence to negate the award.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:08:36 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to remove
> >the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD be a reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
>
> Placing it on the top of the dashboard of course - especially since in this case the car had
> been halted so she could do it to do it! (That is why the GS pulled into the space in the McD
> parking lot!

I just went out and looked -- in one of our cars, that would be possible. In the others, the
dashboard is at too much of a slant for it to work.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
 
x-no-archive:yes

[email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:59:25 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of mine). All of them are too
>>sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested on the dashboard while sitting in my seat
>>(IOW, I would have to take off my seatbelt and get partway out of my seat to reach). I would NEVER
>>have considered the dashboard as a reasonable place to accomplish such a feat.
>
>
>You have the wrong cars - never had these problems in any of mine - top of dashboards were
>accessible or else consoles provided more than adequate areas of flat accessible surfaces to
>do it on!

I do not think that the configuration of the dash and/or the presence or absence of cup holders are
important elements in picking a car. I would say actually that they are completely trivial items
with many more important aspects to be considered.

grandma Rosalie
 
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:34:09 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>> Opening the lid between the knees is not normal, it's very risky and unreasonable,
>>
>> Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to remove
>> the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD be a reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
>
>Honestly, I can't imagine trying to open up a coffee by pinning the cup between my legs. I easily
>imagine that such and attempt would resul in me squeezing the cup with my legs and then it would be
>a disaster to say the least. I usually rest the cup somewhere on the center console between the two
>seats, or sometimes I've used the dash, and a couple times even the top of the steering wheel.
>

I put it in the cupholder and then take the lid off. Sometimes there's a little spill, but it
doesn't get on anyone's skin. My dashboard is completely unsuited for sitting anything on.
 
In <[email protected]>,
Jonathan Kamens <[email protected]> wrote:

*"Mark ProbertDecember 23, 2002" <[email protected]> writes: *>> Yes, well, I
hope he's a good plastic surgeon, because he's *>> not a very good mathematician, and neither
apparently are you. *>> *>> From the context of what you've been saying, it seems clear *>> that
you're trying to say that the degree of damage caused by *>> hot liquids increases FASTER than
arithmetically. Logarithmic *>> increase is SLOWER than arithmetic increase. Exponential *>>
increase is FASTER than arithmetic increase. *> *>My friend is an excellent surgeon, and, a superb
mathemetician. *> *>However, you should read: *> *>http://www.emedicine.com/plastic/topic518.htm *
*I read it. And it, too, uses the term logarithmic incorrectly.

Are you guys talking about the same thing? I don't see Mark, or the article in question, talking
about the rate of increase of the degree of damage, only about the degree of damage itself. The
article states "Human skin can tolerate temperatures as high as 40°C (104°F) for a relatively long
time before irreversible injury occurs. Temperatures greater than this level cause an almost
logarithmic increase in tissue destruction." I took that to mean that once the temperature was
increased beyond 104 F, the tissue damage that occurred was an order of magnitude higher. How is
that a misuse of the word "logarithmic" exactly?

-hillary, totally not a mathemetician at all

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net [email protected] "uber vaccae in quattuor partes
divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)
 
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still holding it
>with one hand.

What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?
 
In article <sWTGb.14427$d%[email protected]>, Happy Dog wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>>
>> >One thing I have seen mentioned is that the hotter the water in a drip coffee maker, the less
>> >coffee you have to use to get a strong cup of coffee (although it will tend to be more bitter).
>> >A difference in 10 degrees is probably worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in the McDonalds
>> >chain over a year.
>>
>> An economic business decision much like Eastern Airlines deletion of black olives from the salads
>> served with their in flight meals (remember those?). It was one of the first actions they took to
>> avoid their eventual bankruptcy. I had a co worker who refused to fly Eastern after they did that
>> because he felt he had good reason to be conserved about what other items they were removing from
>> their fleet as an economic move - he often would voice his concern about suspicion
>
>That sounds like paranoia. What's the source for this?
>
>> that they were saving even more than they did without the olives by eliminating operational and
>> structural redundancies, why have two screws securing a 'flap' when one would do?
>
>That isn't their decision. Not even a consideration.

Given that Federal enforcement budgets are cut when Congress/President do not agree with (or were
elected to not agree with or got campaign contributions to not agree with) laws that they would be
de-elected for outright repealing... And that employees of publicly owned companies feel big
pressure to do everything they can get away with to enhance the bottom line, or else be replaced
by someone else who would...

I don't trust publicly owned companies much more than I trust the gubmint!

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
In article <PcZGb.14713$d%[email protected]>, Happy Dog wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:21:08 -0500, "Happy Dog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >That isn't their decision. Not even a consideration.
>>
>>
>> If not theirs, then who made the decision for them? They ultimately were responsible for the
>> selection of menu items served on board!
>
>I was responding to this:
>
>> eliminating operational and structural redundancies, why have two screws securing a 'flap' when
>> one would do?
>
>They can't simply decide to modify their planes.

They can test the limits of practiced enforcement of laws and regulations against inadequacy of
maintenance! And employees of publicly owned corporations are paid to do so, given bonuses to do
so noticeably successfully, and fired to refuse to do so where competitors succeed! Upper managers
get hired, fired, paid, and given or not given bonuses for everything doable to enhance the
bottome line! All too many of the shareholders demand this if they care at all!

- Don Klipstein (Jr) ([email protected])
 
"Don Klipstein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <Ig2Hb.15709$d%[email protected]>, Happy Dog
wrote:
> >
> ><[email protected]> wrote in message

> >> >They can't simply decide to modify their planes.
> >>
> >> done during routine PM
> >
> >********. Do you have any information you can post WRT this claim or any credentials that imply
> >that you should be listened to seriously? Anyone familiar, on a close level, with aircraft
> >maintenance knows that
procedures
> >are highly regulated by government authorities. The amount of paperwork required to legally make
> >even a tiny modification to a control surface on
a
> >commercial passenger jet is staggering. Any unauthorized modification
would
> >likely ground an entire fleet. Hardly a way to save money.
>
> I would not say unauthorized modification, but how about any delaying or non-doing of
> maintenance done to whatever extent that managers would bet they could get away with? Especially
> given elected officials cutting enforcement budgets rather than repeal laws and regulations they
> would be de-elected for repealing?

Very unlikely. Here's an example: Even a minor error in maintenance procedures usually results in
more scrutiny. And, in the case of an overseas carrier, often results in a change to less fuel-
friendly routes that have more stops along the way. Hardly a good money saving tactic. Maintenance
supervisors know this. That and that they'll take a personal hit for anything serious.

le moo
 
In article <[email protected]>, dragonlady says...
>
>In article <[email protected]>, "Roger Schlafly"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote
>> > > with a normal usage. Opening the lid between the knees is not normal,
>> it's
>> > > very risky and unreasonable,
>> > Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to
>> > remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD be a reasonable way of doing it, in your
>> > view?
>>
>> Most cars have coffee-holders.
>>
>>
>
>Spoken like someone who only drives newer cars in good condition . . .
>
>Neither of our old cars has cup holders. And the one in our newer car was poorly constructed and
>broke fairly quickly.
>

Furthermore, even if there were cup-holders, not all car owners are neat and organized enough to
have them free for coffee cups to go into.

Banty
 
"Frisbee® MCNGP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob Ward wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:10:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:55:14 GMT, "bat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> In this case the container was NOT between the victim's legs, the
> >>> contents spilled from it and ended up on her sweat pants
> >>>
> >>> from the link in the initial post of this thread:
> >>>
> >>> "After the car stopped, she tried to hold the cup securely between her knees while removing
> >>> the lid."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> That was in it, then the information it contains is WRONG - the cup was on the dashboard when
> >> she tried to open it!
> >
> >
> > Cite?
>
> You won't get a cite... notice the e-mail addy.

However:

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000554.php

http://www.kentlaw.edu/classes/rbrill/TORTS-FALL2002/evening/sup_mat/coffee.html
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:59:25 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of mine).
All
> >of them are too sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested on the dashboard while
> >sitting in my seat (IOW, I would have to take off my seatbelt and get partway out of my seat
> >to reach). I would NEVER have considered the dashboard as a reasonable place to accomplish
> >such a feat.
>
> You have the wrong cars - never had these problems in any of mine - top of dashboards were
> accessible or else consoles provided more than adequate areas of flat accessible surfaces to
> do it on!

Well, sorry, I bought my cars based on considerations other than whether or not there was a place
for me to set a coffee cup for the purpose of removing the lid. Seeing as how that's something I
only do about a dozen times in any given year, it didn't really cross my mind.

Either way, however, it is quite clear that not everyone has the "right" cars.
--
Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Custom fabracation" -- Auto
body shop sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not
those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise
is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
 
"Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:GT2Gb.38915$BQ5.23535@fed1read03...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:08:36 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to
> > >remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD
be
> a
> > >reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
> >
> > Placing it on the top of the dashboard of course - especially since in this case the car had
> > been halted so she could do it to do it! (That is why the GS pulled into the space in the McD
> > parking lot!
>
> The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of mine).
All
> of them are too sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested on the dashboard while
> sitting in my seat (IOW, I would have to take off my seatbelt and get partway out of my seat
> to reach). I would NEVER have considered the dashboard as a reasonable place to accomplish
> such a feat.

In a parked car, your point is irrelevant.
 
Circe wrote:
> "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>> Opening the lid between the knees is not normal, it's very risky and unreasonable,
>>>
>>> Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to
>>> remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD be a reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
>>
>> Honestly, I can't imagine trying to open up a coffee by pinning the cup between my legs. I
>> easily imagine that such and attempt would resul in me squeezing the cup with my legs and then
>> it would be a disaster to say the least. I usually rest the cup somewhere on the center console
>> between the two seats, or sometimes I've used the dash, and a couple times even the top of the
>> steering wheel.
>>
>
> I'd put it between my legs, likely, but hold it with one hand while taking off the lid with the
> other. Still, it'd be between my legs, because the seat is the only the flat surface in any of our
> cars that I can reach while sitting in the seat. All of our cars have sloped/uneven dashboards,
> have no center console, and have cup-holders that don't hold a coffee cop securely. I certainly
> wouldn't try the steering wheel. That sounds like a sure way to wind up with it in my lap!

Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still holding it
with one hand. I don't agree with what said in another post of this thread about needing totally
flat surface so you can let go of the cup in order to add the cream and sugar... I can do all that
with just one hand and your teeth to rip the sugar packets and creamer open while holding the cup
steady on whatever surface you have it resting.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Rosalie B. says...
>
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:59:25 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of mine). All of them are too
>>>sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested on the dashboard while sitting in my seat
>>>(IOW, I would have to take off my seatbelt and get partway out of my seat to reach). I would
>>>NEVER have considered the dashboard as a reasonable place to accomplish such a feat.
>>
>>
>>You have the wrong cars - never had these problems in any of mine - top of dashboards were
>>accessible or else consoles provided more than adequate areas of flat accessible surfaces to
>>do it on!
>
>I do not think that the configuration of the dash and/or the presence or absence of cup holders are
>important elements in picking a car. I would say actually that they are completely trivial items
>with many more important aspects to be considered.

Heh - yeah.

Maybe someone with more facts can correct or confirm, but I kinda think the reason why the jury
decided that the lady was partly to blame was that she was holding the cup between her legs and
risking some kind of burn, not because she dared to sit in a car without the 'correct' dashboard.

Banty
 
HI> I took that to mean that once the temperature was increased beyond 104 F, the tissue damage that
HI> occurred was an order of magnitude higher. How is that a misuse of the word "logarithmic"
HI> exactly?

It's actually just the opposite. See http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Logarithm.html
. It has a picture.
 
"Don Klipstein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> eliminating operational and structural redundancies, why have two screws securing a 'flap' when
> >> one would do?
> >
> >They can't simply decide to modify their planes.
>
> They can test the limits of practiced enforcement of laws and regulations against inadequacy of
> maintenance! And employees of publicly owned corporations are paid to do so, given bonuses to do
> so noticeably successfully, and fired to refuse to do so where competitors succeed!

OK. Let's make this simple:

What CAN'T they do. Unless you're nuts, you should be able to think of lots of things. You don't
understand the subject so you don't know how insanely difficult it would be to modify an airplane in
this way without being exposed to staggering consequences. Pick something else to worry about.

moo

> Upper managers get hired, fired, paid, and given or not given bonuses for everything doable to
> enhance the bottome line! All too many of the shareholders demand this if they care at all!

Shareholders who don't fly or allow any loved ones to, right?

moo
 
Mark ProbertDecember 23, 2002 wrote:
> "Frisbee® MCNGP" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> berlin.de...
>> Bob Ward wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:10:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:55:14 GMT, "bat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> In this case the container was NOT between the victim's legs, the
>>>>> contents spilled from it and ended up on her sweat pants
>>>>>
>>>>> from the link in the initial post of this thread:
>>>>>
>>>>> "After the car stopped, she tried to hold the cup securely between her knees while removing
>>>>> the lid."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was in it, then the information it contains is WRONG - the cup was on the dashboard when
>>>> she tried to open it!
>>>
>>>
>>> Cite?
>>
>> You won't get a cite... notice the e-mail addy.
>
> However:
>
> http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000554.php

Huh?

>
http://www.kentlaw.edu/classes/rbrill/TORTS-FALL2002/evening/sup_mat/coffee.html

"She looked for a place to set the coffee cup down, but there was no cup-holder in the Ford Probe
and the dashboard was slanted. Since both hands were needed to remove the lid and add the cream and
sugar, she placed the coffee cup between her knees to keep it secure while she removed the lid.
While she was attempting to remove the lid, the coffee spilled into her lap."

Not sure why you posted that URL either, except to support that she did NOT place the cup on a
dashboard.

--
Fris "Does the first URL have some kind of hidden message?" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help
 
"Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Circe wrote:
> > "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >>>> Opening the lid between the knees is not normal, it's very risky and unreasonable,
> >>>
> >>> Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to
> >>> remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD be a reasonable way of doing it, in your
> >>> view?
> >>
> >> Honestly, I can't imagine trying to open up a coffee by pinning the cup between my legs. I
> >> easily imagine that such and attempt would resul in me squeezing the cup with my legs and then
> >> it would be a disaster to say the least. I usually rest the cup somewhere on the center console
> >> between the two seats, or sometimes I've used the dash, and a couple times even the top of the
> >> steering wheel.
> >>
> >
> > I'd put it between my legs, likely, but hold it with one hand while taking off the lid with the
> > other. Still, it'd be between my legs, because the seat is the only the flat surface in any of
> > our cars that I can reach while sitting in the seat. All of our cars have sloped/uneven
> > dashboards, have no center console, and have cup-holders that don't hold a coffee cop securely.
> > I certainly wouldn't try the steering wheel. That sounds like a sure way to wind up with it in
> > my lap!
>
> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering
wheel
> while still holding it with one hand. I don't agree with what said in another post of this thread
> about needing totally flat surface so you can let go of the cup in order to add the cream and
> sugar... I can do all that with just one hand and your teeth to rip the sugar packets and creamer
open
> while holding the cup steady on whatever surface you have it resting.
>
But not everyone is as nimble and coordinated as you are. I'm certainly not. I can do cream one-
handed and since I don't take sugar, I don't usually have to let go of the cup. That said, if I took
sugar, I can't imagine how I'd add it without letting go of the cup.
--
Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Custom fabracation" -- Auto
body shop sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not
those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise
is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
 
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