Can this mother win this lawsuit?



"Mark ProbertDecember 24, 2002" <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GT2Gb.38915$BQ5.23535@fed1read03...
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:08:36 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee
while
> > > >sitting in a car to remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD
> be
> > a
> > > >reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
> > >
> > > Placing it on the top of the dashboard of course - especially since in this case the car had
> > > been halted so she could do it to do it! (That is why the GS pulled into the space in the McD
> > > parking lot!
> >
> > The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of mine).
> All
> > of them are too sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested
on
> > the dashboard while sitting in my seat (IOW, I would have to take off my seatbelt and get
> > partway out of my seat to reach). I would NEVER have considered the dashboard as a reasonable
> > place to accomplish such a
feat.
>
> In a parked car, your point is irrelevant.
>
I'd sorry. I fail to understand in what way it's irrelevant. Whether the car is moving or not, the
dashboard isn't a reasonable place to set a cup of coffee for the purpose of adding cream or sugar
in any of my cars. Even when parked, I prefer to sit with my tush in the seat, not hovering six
inches above it so I can reach the dashboard (which is what I'd have to do in my minivan to be able
to reach the part of the dash that is flat enough to rest a cup on). And I really doubt most 79yo's
would be able to accomplish such a feat, whether the vehicle was moving or not. In my other
vehicles, the dashboard slopes, which was apparently the case in the car in this particular
incident. Again, whether the car was moving or not hold no relevance at all as to whether the
dashboard was a reasonable place to set the cup of coffee.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Custom fabracation" -- Auto body shop sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Joni Rathbun <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, dragonlady wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, "Roger Schlafly"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > > > with a normal usage. Opening the lid between the knees is not normal,
> > > it's
> > > > > very risky and unreasonable,
> > > > Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee while sitting in a car to
> > > > remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What WOULD be a reasonable way of doing it, in your
> > > > view?
> > >
> > > Most cars have coffee-holders.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Spoken like someone who only drives newer cars in good condition . . .
> >
> > Neither of our old cars has cup holders. And the one in our newer car was poorly constructed and
> > broke fairly quickly.
> >
>
> The cup holders in our car keep a cup upright by providing a loose, general fit so that cups of
> many sizes can be accommodated. I would at least lean over and hold the cup with one hand if
> wanting to remove a lid from hot liquid.

True, but what does this have to do with the case at hand? The woman who was burned quickly put the
hot coffee cup down because it was too hot to hold. She either did not put the cup in a cup holder
because a cup holder was not accessible at the time or she didn't have enough time to get to the cup
holder before the coffee cup burned her hand.

Even McDonalds' own quality control officer testified under oath in both trials that the coffee was
too hot to hold.
 
Not sure about the attributions here, but...

"Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:ugjGb.38986$BQ5.31376@fed1read03...
> "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Circe wrote:
> > > "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >> I usually rest the cup somewhere on the center console between
the
> > >> two seats, or sometimes I've used the dash, and a couple times
even
> > >> the top of the steering wheel.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I'd put it between my legs, likely, but hold it with one hand
while
> > > taking off the lid with the other. Still, it'd be between my legs, because the seat is the
> > > only the flat surface in any of our cars
that
> > > I can reach while sitting in the seat.
> >
> > Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the
steering
> > wheel while still holding it with one hand.
> >
> But not everyone is as nimble and coordinated as you are. I'm
certainly not.
> I can do cream one-handed and since I don't take sugar, I don't
usually have
> to let go of the cup. That said, if I took sugar, I can't imagine how
I'd
> add it without letting go of the cup.

I hope all of you are not driving while doing *any* of this, regardless of where you put the cup!
It's a good recipe for a car accident.
--
Cheryl S. Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 9 mo. And Jaden, 3 months

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like shoveling the sidewalk while it's
still snowing.
 
"Frisbee® MCNGP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark ProbertDecember 23, 2002 wrote:
> > "Frisbee® MCNGP" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> > berlin.de...
> >> Bob Ward wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:10:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:55:14 GMT, "bat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> In this case the container was NOT between the victim's legs, the
> >>>>> contents spilled from it and ended up on her sweat pants
> >>>>>
> >>>>> from the link in the initial post of this thread:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "After the car stopped, she tried to hold the cup securely between her knees while removing
> >>>>> the lid."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> That was in it, then the information it contains is WRONG - the cup was on the dashboard when
> >>>> she tried to open it!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cite?
> >>
> >> You won't get a cite... notice the e-mail addy.
> >
> > However:
> >
> > http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000554.php
>
> Huh?
>
> >
>
http://www.kentlaw.edu/classes/rbrill/TORTS-FALL2002/evening/sup_mat/coffee.html
>
> "She looked for a place to set the coffee cup down, but there was no cup-holder in the Ford Probe
> and the dashboard was slanted. Since both
hands
> were needed to remove the lid and add the cream and sugar, she placed the coffee cup between her
> knees to keep it secure while she removed the lid. While she was attempting to remove the lid, the
> coffee spilled into her lap."
>
> Not sure why you posted that URL either, except to support that she did
NOT
> place the cup on a dashboard.

go to the URL I posted and search on dashboard
 
"Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:GkjGb.38987$BQ5.18513@fed1read03...
> "Mark ProbertDecember 24, 2002" <[email protected]>
wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
> > "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GT2Gb.38915$BQ5.23535@fed1read03...
> > > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:08:36 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > > > >Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee
> while
> > > > >sitting in a car to remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What
WOULD
> > be
> > > a
> > > > >reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
> > > >
> > > > Placing it on the top of the dashboard of course - especially since
in
> > > > this case the car had been halted so she could do it to do it!
(That
> > > > is why the GS pulled into the space in the McD parking lot!
> > >
> > > The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of
mine).
> > All
> > > of them are too sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup rested
> on
> > > the dashboard while sitting in my seat (IOW, I would have to take off
my
> > > seatbelt and get partway out of my seat to reach). I would NEVER have considered the dashboard
> > > as a reasonable place to accomplish such a
> feat.
> >
> > In a parked car, your point is irrelevant.
> >
> I'd sorry. I fail to understand in what way it's irrelevant.

Becuase it is your car, vs. the Ford Probe. YOUR experiences in YOUR car, YOUR preferences, in YOUR
car, are irrelevant.

BTW, I occasionally use the dashboard to hold things just she she tried it.

Whether the car
> is moving or not, the dashboard isn't a reasonable place to set a cup of coffee for the purpose of
> adding cream or sugar in any of my cars. Even
when
> parked, I prefer to sit with my tush in the seat, not hovering six inches above it so I can reach
> the dashboard (which is what I'd have to do in my minivan to be able to reach the part of the dash
> that is flat enough to
rest
> a cup on). And I really doubt most 79yo's would be able to accomplish such
a
> feat, whether the vehicle was moving or not. In my other vehicles, the dashboard slopes, which
> was apparently the case in the car in this particular incident. Again, whether the car was moving
> or not hold no relevance at all as to whether the dashboard was a reasonable place to set the cup
> of coffee.
> --
> Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)
>
> This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Custom fabracation" -- Auto body
> shop sign
>
> Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!
>
> All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are
> not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says
> otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
 
"Cheryl S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not sure about the attributions here, but... "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ugjGb.38986$BQ5.31376@fed1read03...
> > "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Circe wrote:
> > > > "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still
> > > holding it with one hand.
> > >
> > But not everyone is as nimble and coordinated as you are. I'm certainly not. I can do cream one-
> > handed and since I don't take sugar, I don't usually have to let go of the cup. That said, if I
> > took sugar, I can't imagine how I'd add it without letting go of the cup.
>
> I hope all of you are not driving while doing *any* of this, regardless of where you put the cup!
> It's a good recipe for a car accident.

Well, I'm certainly not. Sometimes, I'm sitting in the passenger seat in a moving vehicle. If I'm
the driver, I pull into a parking space or off to the side of the road to accomplish such tasks.

That said, I rarely *ever* get a cup of coffee anywhere that I have to add cream to after I've
received it. I'm a latte and cappuccino kind of girl, myself, which means my coffees are typically
handed to me ready to drink.!
--
Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Custom fabracation" -- Auto
body shop sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not
those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise
is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
 
"Mark ProbertDecember 24, 2002" <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GkjGb.38987$BQ5.18513@fed1read03...
> > "Mark ProbertDecember 24, 2002" <[email protected]>
> wrote
> > in message news:[email protected]...
> > > "Circe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GT2Gb.38915$BQ5.23535@fed1read03...
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > > > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:08:36 -0800, "Circe" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >Honestly, I can't imagine ANOTHER way of holding a cup of coffee
> > while
> > > > > >sitting in a car to remove the lid and add cream or sugar. What
> WOULD
> > > be
> > > > a
> > > > > >reasonable way of doing it, in your view?
> > > > >
> > > > > Placing it on the top of the dashboard of course - especially
since
> in
> > > > > this case the car had been halted so she could do it to do it!
> (That
> > > > > is why the GS pulled into the space in the McD parking lot!
> > > >
> > > > The dashboard is not practical in many cars (certainly in none of
> mine).
> > > All
> > > > of them are too sloped or uneven and/or I could not reach a cup
rested
> > on
> > > > the dashboard while sitting in my seat (IOW, I would have to take
off
> my
> > > > seatbelt and get partway out of my seat to reach). I would NEVER
have
> > > > considered the dashboard as a reasonable place to accomplish such a
> > feat.
> > >
> > > In a parked car, your point is irrelevant.
> > >
> > I'd sorry. I fail to understand in what way it's irrelevant.
>
> Becuase it is your car, vs. the Ford Probe. YOUR experiences in YOUR car, YOUR preferences, in
> YOUR car, are irrelevant.
>
Er, I'm on YOUR side of this argument, hon.

My POINT was that the fact that Nonymous would use the dashboard for such an exercise does not mean
that is a reasonable suggestion for everyone. MY experiences and preference certainly ARE relevant
to the extent that they prove that not EVERYONE can do things the same way.

> BTW, I occasionally use the dashboard to hold things just she she tried
it.
>
DID she try? She looked, saw it wouldn't work, and chose another method.
--
Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [a quarter to 2] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: "Custom fabracation" -- Auto
body shop sign

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning. Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not
those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise
is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
 
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:52:59 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

>>********. Do you have any information you can post WRT this claim or any credentials that imply
>>that you should be listened to seriously? Anyone familiar, on a close level, with aircraft
>>maintenance knows that procedures are highly regulated by government authorities. The amount of
>>paperwork required to legally make even a tiny modification to a control surface on a commercial
>>passenger jet is staggering. Any unauthorized modification would likely ground an entire fleet.
>>Hardly a way to save money.
>
> I would not say unauthorized modification, but how about any delaying or non-doing of maintenance
> done to whatever extent that managers would bet they could get away with? Especially given
> elected officials cutting enforcement budgets rather than repeal laws and regulations they would
> be de-elected for repealing?

Once you start condoning breaking one law, you pretty much consider breaking all laws. If you really
believe that this is a serious concern, you'd better not venture outside your house at all - someone
somewhere might be viloating a law or regulation that could concievably endanger your life.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still holding
>> it with one hand.
>
>
>
> What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?

I didn't say anything about driving. (I'm assuming your imagining me driving while talking on the
phone, reading the paper, and drinking coffee all at the same time.
1) I deal with the coffee after I get it in the drive thru by pulling over into a parking spot.
2) I don't need nor own a cellphone since, unlike the rest of this country, my family and I can last
several hours without contact and not suffer emotional loss.
3) Newspaper? That's what the internet is for.

What's the big deal? Hold the cup in one hand using the wheel for some extra bracing. Open it up.
Using other hand and teeth, tear open sugar packet and dump in contents. Open up creamer with teeth
and dump it in, too. Give a quick stir with stirrer, then put the lid back on. It doesn't take
Olympic medalist coordination to pull this off.
 
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Nonymous wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still
> >> holding it with one hand.
> >
> >
> >
> > What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?
>
> I didn't say anything about driving. (I'm assuming your imagining me driving while talking on the
> phone, reading the paper, and drinking coffee all at the same time.
> 1) I deal with the coffee after I get it in the drive thru by pulling over into a parking spot.
> 2) I don't need nor own a cellphone since, unlike the rest of this country, my family and I can
> last several hours without contact and not suffer emotional loss.
> 3) Newspaper? That's what the internet is for.
>
> What's the big deal? Hold the cup in one hand using the wheel for some extra bracing. Open it up.
> Using other hand and teeth, tear open sugar packet and dump in contents. Open up creamer with
> teeth and dump it in, too. Give a quick stir with stirrer, then put the lid back on. It doesn't
> take Olympic medalist coordination to pull this off.
>
Unless, of course, you're sitting in the passenger seat as was the case in this incident.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still
> >> holding it with one hand.
> >
> >
> >
> > What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?
>
> I didn't say anything about driving. (I'm assuming your imagining me driving while talking on the
> phone, reading the paper, and drinking coffee all at the same time.
> 1) I deal with the coffee after I get it in the drive thru by pulling over into a parking spot.
> 2) I don't need nor own a cellphone since, unlike the rest of this country, my family and I can
> last several hours without contact and not suffer emotional loss.

but how will they know that you have just bought a cup of coffee and are now pulling into a parking
spot to drink it and that you thnk you will have a little sugar in it?
 
Joni Rathbun wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Nonymous wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still
>>>> holding it with one hand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?
>>
>> I didn't say anything about driving. (I'm assuming your imagining me driving while talking on the
>> phone, reading the paper, and drinking coffee all at the same time.
>> 1) I deal with the coffee after I get it in the drive thru by pulling over into a parking spot.
>> 2) I don't need nor own a cellphone since, unlike the rest of this country, my family and I can
>> last several hours without contact and not suffer emotional loss.
>> 3) Newspaper? That's what the internet is for.
>>
>> What's the big deal? Hold the cup in one hand using the wheel for some extra bracing. Open it up.
>> Using other hand and teeth, tear open sugar packet and dump in contents. Open up creamer with
>> teeth and dump it in, too. Give a quick stir with stirrer, then put the lid back on. It doesn't
>> take Olympic medalist coordination to pull this off.
>>
> Unless, of course, you're sitting in the passenger seat as was the case in this incident.

Earlier on in the thread I said steering wheel *or* dash *or* center console. My particular mention
of steering wheel at the beginning of this particular post ('I just reset the cup on the
steering...") was me replying to somebody who thought I meant I actually balanced the cup on the
steering wheel such that I didn't even need any hands.
 
Jenn wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still
>>>> holding it with one hand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?
>>
>> I didn't say anything about driving. (I'm assuming your imagining me driving while talking on the
>> phone, reading the paper, and drinking coffee all at the same time.
>> 1) I deal with the coffee after I get it in the drive thru by pulling over into a parking spot.
>> 2) I don't need nor own a cellphone since, unlike the rest of this country, my family and I can
>> last several hours without contact and not suffer emotional loss.
>
> but how will they know that you have just bought a cup of coffee and are now pulling into a
> parking spot to drink it and that you thnk you will have a little sugar in it?

huh? who's 'they'?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:44 -0500, "Nonymous" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, I don't let go of the cup... I just rest the cup on the steering wheel while still
> >>>> holding it with one hand.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What do you do with your cell phone and news paper when you do this?
> >>
> >> I didn't say anything about driving. (I'm assuming your imagining me driving while talking on
> >> the phone, reading the paper, and drinking coffee all at the same time.
> >> 1) I deal with the coffee after I get it in the drive thru by pulling over into a parking spot.
> >> 2) I don't need nor own a cellphone since, unlike the rest of this country, my family and I can
> >> last several hours without contact and not suffer emotional loss.
> >
> > but how will they know that you have just bought a cup of coffee and are now pulling into a
> > parking spot to drink it and that you thnk you will have a little sugar in it?
>
> huh? who's 'they'?
>
>

haven't you ever listened to what people actually say on cellphones as they pollute the peace for
all those around them LOL
 
[email protected] (Geoff Miller) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> 3. Most cars sold in the U.S. have had cupholders for about a quarter-century now, give or take.

In case anyone is collecting data points: 1991 Toyota MR-2, no cupholders; 1990 Mazda Miata, no
cupholders (but several aftermarket cupholder options); 1998 Subaru Legacy, *two* cupholders! in slide-
out dash holder; 2003 Subaru Impreza, one cupholder in dash, one in weird folding gadget inside
center console, very awkward to reach even for the passenger.

Why do later versions of same-make cars change things for the worse? The Impreza doesn't have
adjustable intermittent wipers either, but the Legacy does. Oy.

Jeannie