I disagree, as Dr. Coggan likes you say, you can only do what you can do and if your 5 second max sprint is 1000 watts, no state of mind is going to change that to 1500 watts...Adam-from-SLO said:Nice !
Ultimately though, it comes down to your state of mind( right before, and during the ride), whether you feel up to it or not(physically drained, or physically feeling good) does play some role in things , but the mind/brain is a powerful tool- a force to be rekon with for sure.
The simple fact is that some people improve with training, some do not, no matter how hard or smart the training. You should research the subject of exercise responders and non-responders.velomanct said:But a proper, motivated, positive mindset will get that 1000w rider a heck of a lot higher through training than a limiting mindset of "oh I'll never be a good sprinter" BULLSHEET.
I'm currently about 50 watts away from something I would of crapped myself if someone told me I'd do, 5 years ago. No exageration.
How's it possible?
I don't care that I'm a skinny ectomorph who can't jump for sheet.(18") I REFUSE to allow myself from being categorized into something I don't like.
You got to love doing it though. Sprinting, that is.
6'2"Steve_B said:On the previous page, you said you were 85 kg, which generally in the bike racing world is not skinny but it depends upon height. So how tall are you?
Well, you should be doing relatively well in the road cycling world then! Most that endurance crowd yearns to be as slow-twitch as possible.john979 said:The simple fact is that some people improve with training, some do not, no matter how hard or smart the training. You should research the subject of exercise responders and non-responders.
For example, no matter how hard I try to improve my sprint and 30 second power, I see little meaningful improvement in my 5 second and 30 second power. I train both hard and smartly.
However, I have seen meaningful improvement in my aerobic power and FTP, at least before I became sick. This is expected given my predominant Type I fiber physiology.
Lastly, I don't mind, as slow-twitchers live longer!
john979 said:I disagree, as Dr. Coggan likes you say, you can only do what you can do and if your 5 second max sprint is 1000 watts, no state of mind is going to change that to 1500 watts...
In addition, one's physiology is more determanistic than one's training. If this were not the case, then Boardman would be a TdF Champion, for example.
As performance levels increase, the physiological traits of athletes become more homogenous for each specialty, which is expected. For example, all professional Grand Tour contenders possess very similar muscle morphologies, as do world class marathon runners and tracker sprinters. Interestingly, it has only been since the advent of doping the we saw Grand Tour Champions outside what in the past had been a very narrow range of weight and BMI (approximate 70 +/- 3 kg).Adam-from-SLO said:Yes there are genetic/physiological differences between people, some miniscule (eye color)... and some more major differences (developmental disabled- mental and/or physical , albino, dwarfism, etc. etc.... you get the idea). From what I've heard, the difference between a pro rider and a Cat. 2 rider can be insignificantly not much- if anything beyond being measured at all/ if any physiological net results (VO2 max, height/weight, watt output- duration of time, etc. ... etc.). The differnece lies in ... well, more so then anything experience .... and mental focus/accuity ( mind over matter ... and/or E= (MC)2 )
Dave_K said:A few years ago I was a pretty good sprinter (or at least much better than now), but since then I've had two pretty big crashes (both involving cars and quite a few broken bones). I have completely lost my ability to sprint and cannot seem to get it back. Doctors believe that there are no injuries from the crashes that could be causing this. I've decided to change my training to only work on sprints, but I'm seeing almost no change whatsoever. The last three weeks I've been doing a training race on Thursday (1:00 - 1:10 long with 10 sprints), 20 20-second sprints on Saturday and 10 1-minute L6 intervals on Sunday. The other days are all 1 hour recovery rides. So far my 5-second power has "improved" from 975 to 980 watts. My 1-minute power has remained the same. I haven't done a maximum 1-min test since it's tough to put in 9 more after that, but my average power outputs for the 10 1:00 efforts are pretty much unchanged after the three weeks. One thing I'll say - recovery takes a lot longer with these efforts than any L4 or L5 training I've done! I'm going to start taking Tuesdays completely off the bike instead of a recovery ride since my legs are usually still quite sore then. Is it possible that 4 recovery days a week are still not enough? I know that weight training is generally not seen as necessary for cyclists, but is that maybe the direction I should go? I'm hoping that there's a glaringly obvious problem with my training that I am just not seeing!
Outstanding -- I had some very similar thoughts but you beat me too it. I have always speculated that one reason why some people, those possessing the correct muscle morphology, is that they are not fully recovered between exercise repetitions. As intensity increases and duration increases, the rest:work increases and must time is spent in recovery between repetitions -- 5 minutes may not be enough too.doctorSpoc said:if you are finding L7 workout hard to recover from you KNOW you are doing something wrong... an L7 workout should not feel particularly difficult to recover from... the L6, yes you should feel some muscle soreness but since the workout duration is short you should be able to recover from them pretty easily as well... L5 are killer though...
your sprints are too long and too many... a sprint workout looks like this...
1hr - 1.5hrs... 15-20min tempo to warmup... max 8 sprints of max efforts for 15 sec max (flying starts)... 10 sec max standing starts... then 5min of full recovery between.. if you need more to recover take more... you should be fully recovered before you do another sprint... improving your sprint is a lot about form and muscle memory... if you are doing your sprint workout not fully recovered you are likely ingraining bad form and as a result low power... this means a sprint workout should come after a recovery day and full recovery between sprints... after your sprint do about 20min cool down... ~10min tempo followed by 10min AR.. basically ride home fairly easy...
short (5-10sec), uphill, standing start sprints, over geared overemphasize the pedalling action and are good to warmup... keep pedalling 'til you get on top of the gear.... usually do these first to warm up and get you thinking about what you will do later
longer (10-15sec), flying starts are good for recreating real world sprints, practice getting leg speed up etc... start at the top of a small hill roll down the hill/pedal lightly to get up to ~40km/hr... at the bottom of the hill sprint all out... standing then as you get on top of the gear sit and try to maintain your speed as much as possible... these are the sprints that will make you fast in real world situations (difference between high 5sec power and sprinting ability).. again much of this is about ingraining the technique
keep in mind that this is only part of the puzzle... you need to get to the end of the race in order to sprint... you need to get into position... only then will your sprinting ability be significant... by reducing your other training you could be severely impairing your sprinting ability (i.e. NOT you 5sec power number)... contrary to popular belief sprinting in not all about NMP...
Welcome to the wonderful world of Sports Medicine and Science: http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/csa/vol142/table.htm.Adam-from-SLO said:good sprinting overview/ perspective.. I'll try it.
Also.. don't forget the importance that mitochondrial DNA has, on a persons ability to convert food into usable energy (production of ATP and regulation of cellular metabolism). This cannot be bought, you got what you got. However, isn't there some drugs that can enhance(short term) the mitochon. effect ? I forget its name.