Can't Use Helmets in the Sun????



jtaylor wrote:
> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:h%[email protected]...
>>
>> "jtaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>>>
>>> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "jtaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>>>>
>>>>> Given a choice (unfortunately many of us no longer have such a
>>>>> choice) of whether to wear a helmet while cycling, does it make a
>>>>> difference to the
>>>>> likelyhood of injury?
>>>>
>>>> Of course.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then why do not population-level studies show this?

>>
>> Because true "road cyclists" are only a small percentage of the
>> overall population.
>>

>
> Reference please.



www.itsobviouslikeduh.com
 
On Sun, 28 May 2006 14:47:44 GMT, "Sorni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>jtaylor wrote:
>> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:h%[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "jtaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>>>>
>>>> "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> "jtaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Given a choice (unfortunately many of us no longer have such a
>>>>>> choice) of whether to wear a helmet while cycling, does it make a
>>>>>> difference to the
>>>>>> likelyhood of injury?
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then why do not population-level studies show this?
>>>
>>> Because true "road cyclists" are only a small percentage of the
>>> overall population.
>>>

>>
>> Reference please.

>
>
>www.itsobviouslikeduh.com
>


I have to say, that was funny.

I assume by road cyclists, Sorni means the athletic sort of people who
use the bike for recreation and have fairly high-end equipment.

JT


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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

>>>>>>> Given a choice (unfortunately many of us no longer have such a
>>>>>>> choice) of whether to wear a helmet while cycling, does it make a
>>>>>>> difference to the
>>>>>>> likelyhood of injury?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course.


Unless you get in front of a semi and parts of your body are scattered along
the street, then your head is intact and your last thought is "Oh ****, but
my head is safe........".
>>>>>>

> I assume by road cyclists, Sorni means the athletic sort of people who
> use the bike for recreation and have fairly high-end equipment.
>
> JT
>

I am an athletic sort who does not have high-end equipment, so are you
saying that to keep in shape you have to spend the rent money? I have 6
low-end bikes and plenty of spares so I always have at least 2 bikes to
pick from. Of course I have a house in the country and room for them all,
unlike the city dweller who has to cram one into an apartment. I did that
for a while then just rented a house in the 'burbs and the bike collection
exploded.
Bill Baka
 
Quoting foots <[email protected]>:
>out to be my wrist watch in pieces scooting along in front of me. I
>know my head would have been hurt, maybe a concussion or worse, had I
>not been wearing my helmut. Not sure if it saved my life, but I know
>it reduced my injuries considerably.


Really? Repeating the experiment with a control unhelmeted head must have
been rather unpleasant. I wouldn't have bothered, myself.
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Well, slamming my head against asphalt at 15 mph with a helmut on and
not having one scratch (on the head) vs slamming my leg and butt and
shoulder against the same asphalt at the same velocity at the same
time resulting in scrapes and burns, at every contact point, that went
thru both layers of skin and one layer of expensive bib shorts is
enough evidence for me. If my head was as hard as some that post in
this group, then without a helmut it might have come thru a spill
like that unscathed.
Everyone has to do their own thing, as for me, I'll wear a brain
bucket!


On 29 May 2006 14:07:05 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Quoting foots <[email protected]>:
>>out to be my wrist watch in pieces scooting along in front of me. I
>>know my head would have been hurt, maybe a concussion or worse, had I
>>not been wearing my helmut. Not sure if it saved my life, but I know
>>it reduced my injuries considerably.

>
>Really? Repeating the experiment with a control unhelmeted head must have
>been rather unpleasant. I wouldn't have bothered, myself.
 
On Tue, 30 May 2006 03:27:43 GMT, foots <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, slamming my head against asphalt at 15 mph with a helmut on and
>not having one scratch (on the head) vs slamming my leg and butt and
>shoulder against the same asphalt at the same velocity at the same
>time resulting in scrapes and burns, at every contact point, that went
>thru both layers of skin and one layer of expensive bib shorts is
>enough evidence for me.


It's pretty clear that wearing a helmet can prevent scrapes and such.

That's quite different than the claims of helmets frequently
preventing serious injury and death.

JT

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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> How do you make kids wear a helmet? They really hate wearing them.


Simple: tell them they can't ride without one.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
 
"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > How do you make kids wear a helmet? They really hate wearing them.

>
> Simple: tell them they can't ride without one.


Worked for me for my children. One continues to ride a bike. The other
decided it wasn't worth it, and gave up bike riding when she entered junior
high. Prefered to walk the 1.5 miles each way. As we were looking at
colleges I was surprised to hear this child that gave up bike riding at age
11 wouldn't mind getting a bike for transportation when she goes away to
school, as by then she won't need to wear a helmet. (In California adults
(age 18) are not required by law to wear helmets while cycling.)
 
Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
> Worked for me for my children. One continues to ride a bike. The other
> decided it wasn't worth it, and gave up bike riding when she entered junior
> high. Prefered to walk the 1.5 miles each way. As we were looking at
> colleges I was surprised to hear this child that gave up bike riding at age
> 11 wouldn't mind getting a bike for transportation when she goes away to
> school, as by then she won't need to wear a helmet. (In California adults
> (age 18) are not required by law to wear helmets while cycling.)
>
>


Which is an excellent illustration of one good reason many of us oppose
mandatory helmets - they put people off cycling especially children and
there is no clear evidence of any compensating benefit.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
Quoting foots <[email protected]>:
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>Quoting foots <[email protected]>:
>>>out to be my wrist watch in pieces scooting along in front of me. I
>>>know my head would have been hurt, maybe a concussion or worse, had I
>>>not been wearing my helmut. Not sure if it saved my life, but I know
>>>it reduced my injuries considerably.

>>Really? Repeating the experiment with a control unhelmeted head must have
>>been rather unpleasant. I wouldn't have bothered, myself.

>Well, slamming my head against asphalt at 15 mph with a helmut on and
>not having one scratch (on the head) vs slamming my leg and butt and
>shoulder against the same asphalt at the same velocity at the same
>time resulting in scrapes and burns, at every contact point, that went
>thru both layers of skin and one layer of expensive bib shorts is
>enough evidence for me.


So because the rest of your body - which, incidentally, you are not as
equipped by evolution to protect as the head - got scrapes and burns, you
conclude that your head would have got "maybe a concussion", and you think
there's a possibility it saved your life?

See, I would conclude that the helmet maybe saved me scrapes. Which is nice,
but if you're worried about scrapes, why don't you wear BMX knee and elbow
guards?

PS: helm_e_t.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Monday, June.
 
Quoting Cathy Kearns <[email protected]>:
>"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com> wrote in message
>>Simple: tell them they can't ride without one.

>Worked for me for my children. One continues to ride a bike. The other
>decided it wasn't worth it, and gave up bike riding when she entered junior
>high. Prefered to walk the 1.5 miles each way.


So, given the health effects, you had a large negative effect on that
child's life expectancy. Well done! Perhaps you should suggest she
takes up smoking, too?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Monday, June.
 
I have been doing long distance self contained touring for about 20
years and have been hit by cars twice.

Both times was hit within a mile of my home while riding in the middle
of a group of bicycles. In each case a car rode directly across the
road from a cross street through the group of riders. How lucky can you
be.

In both cases although low speed collisions, I was thrown from bike and
landed by hitting my head on the curbing.

The first time in 1986 an MG hit my front wheel throwing me into the
air. I landed on my back and the back of my head hit the curbing. It
must have hit fairly hard because my glasses were throw completely
across the road despite the eye glass retaining strap I was wearing.
The driver kept on going but was caught by another driver. I was
stunned, My back abraded. My glasses were gouged, my front wheel and
fork were a pretzel and my helmet (a bell hard shell) was cracked. But
I was just dazed and abraded, otherwise unhurt. I think the helmet
saved my life.

The second time in 1998, I was the middle of three riders on the same
street as the previous accident. A Chevy station wagon, ran a stop sign
and hit me. This time she hit closer to the middle of the bike and I
was thrown across the street and hit head first on the curbing. This
must say something about the weight of my head versus the rest of my
body. I was knocked out. and had some pretty deep gouges on my right
leg and ankle, a strained neck and shoulder plus lots of bruises. My
helmet didn't crack this time (it was a Giro) but I was happy to
replace it. Again, I think the helmet saved my life.

I have been run off the road since but luckily not hit. There are two
things I take away from these incidents:

1. Stay off of that street

2. Always wear my helmet especially when I ride near home.

Roland

Dover, NH
ebent.com
 
David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote in
news:p0b*[email protected]:

> Quoting Cathy Kearns <[email protected]>:
>>"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com> wrote in
>>message
>>>Simple: tell them they can't ride without one.

>>Worked for me for my children. One continues to ride a bike. The
>>other decided it wasn't worth it, and gave up bike riding when she
>>entered junior high. Prefered to walk the 1.5 miles each way.

>
> So, given the health effects, you had a large negative effect on that
> child's life expectancy. Well done! Perhaps you should suggest she
> takes up smoking, too?


Well, the kid is still _walking_ three miles a day. That's good exercise,
too.

KS
 
David Damerell wrote:

> See, I would conclude that the helmet maybe saved me scrapes. Which
> is nice


We can all go home now.
 
David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Cathy Kearns <[email protected]>:
>> "David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com> wrote in
>> message


>>> Simple: tell them they can't ride without one.


>> Worked for me for my children. One continues to ride a bike. The
>> other decided it wasn't worth it, and gave up bike riding when she
>> entered junior high. Prefered to walk the 1.5 miles each way.



> So, given the health effects, you had a large negative effect on that
> child's life expectancy. Well done! Perhaps you should suggest she
> takes up smoking, too?


A "large negative effect on that child's life expectancy"??? Damn it all,
Damnitall -- you're being a weasel. Again.

Walking 3 miles a day probably affords /more/ health benefits than cycling
the same distance. More constant "work" (no coasting); less danger of
accidents & injuries, too. (Here we go.)

You've outdone even yourself.

BS (really)
 
[email protected] wrote:
> I have been doing long distance self contained touring for about 20
> years and have been hit by cars twice.
>
> Both times was hit within a mile of my home while riding in the
> middle of a group of bicycles. In each case a car rode directly
> across the road from a cross street through the group of riders. How
> lucky can you be.
>
> In both cases although low speed collisions, I was thrown from bike
> and landed by hitting my head on the curbing.
>
> The first time in 1986 an MG hit my front wheel throwing me into the
> air. I landed on my back and the back of my head hit the curbing. It
> must have hit fairly hard because my glasses were throw completely
> across the road despite the eye glass retaining strap I was wearing.
> The driver kept on going but was caught by another driver. I was
> stunned, My back abraded. My glasses were gouged, my front wheel and
> fork were a pretzel and my helmet (a bell hard shell) was cracked.
> But I was just dazed and abraded, otherwise unhurt. I think the helmet
> saved my life.
>
> The second time in 1998, I was the middle of three riders on the same
> street as the previous accident. A Chevy station wagon, ran a stop
> sign and hit me. This time she hit closer to the middle of the bike
> and I was thrown across the street and hit head first on the curbing.
> This must say something about the weight of my head versus the rest
> of my body. I was knocked out. and had some pretty deep gouges on my
> right leg and ankle, a strained neck and shoulder plus lots of
> bruises. My helmet didn't crack this time (it was a Giro) but I was
> happy to replace it. Again, I think the helmet saved my life.
>
> I have been run off the road since but luckily not hit. There are two
> things I take away from these incidents:
>
> 1. Stay off of that street
>
> 2. Always wear my helmet especially when I ride near home.
>
> Roland
>
> Dover, NH
> ebent.com


Sorry, Roland, your personal experiences and subsequent decisions are not
considered valid in there NGs. Go read some "studies". HTH, BS
 
Sorni wrote:

> Sorry, Roland, your personal experiences and subsequent decisions are
> not considered valid in there NGs. Go read some "studies". HTH, BS


s/b "these" NGs (for those who think I meant "their"?)...
 
On Tue, 30 May 2006 09:03:40 -0400, David Kerber
<ns_dkerber@ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> How do you make kids wear a helmet? They really hate wearing them.

>
>Simple: tell them they can't ride without one.


Sweet. Maybe we can do that with all cyclists.

JT


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On 30 May 2006 18:05:23 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Quoting foots <[email protected]>:
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Quoting foots <[email protected]>:
>>>>out to be my wrist watch in pieces scooting along in front of me. I
>>>>know my head would have been hurt, maybe a concussion or worse, had I
>>>>not been wearing my helmut. Not sure if it saved my life, but I know
>>>>it reduced my injuries considerably.
>>>Really? Repeating the experiment with a control unhelmeted head must have
>>>been rather unpleasant. I wouldn't have bothered, myself.

>>Well, slamming my head against asphalt at 15 mph with a helmut on and
>>not having one scratch (on the head) vs slamming my leg and butt and
>>shoulder against the same asphalt at the same velocity at the same
>>time resulting in scrapes and burns, at every contact point, that went
>>thru both layers of skin and one layer of expensive bib shorts is
>>enough evidence for me.

>
>So because the rest of your body - which, incidentally, you are not as
>equipped by evolution to protect as the head - got scrapes and burns, you
>conclude that your head would have got "maybe a concussion", and you think
>there's a possibility it saved your life?


I'm reminded of an acquaintance who broke his collarbone riding and
that made him decide to "always wear a helmet." I asked him how that
would help protect his collarbone in the future and he became
indignant.

JT

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In article <[email protected]>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm reminded of an acquaintance who broke his collarbone riding and
> that made him decide to "always wear a helmet." I asked him how that
> would help protect his collarbone in the future and he became
> indignant.


I was thinking something similar earlier. Since collarbone fractures are
by far a more common cycling injury (anecdotally), why hasn't anyone
developed some sort of protective gear for it? And, what would it look
like? It might be so bulky and hot as to spoil the fun of riding on a
warm enough day. Sort of like a lid.

--
fneep