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carb. consumer seeks advice

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 August 2005
Last activity
19 August 2005
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Reba
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  1. RoT said:

    Visual Purple wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Carbs and proteins should never be eaten together - certainly not
    refined carbs and high-fat animal protein as in the cases of pizza and
    mac and cheese.

    what a load of [censored], its quite the opposite actually, protein SHOULD be eaten with carbs to slow
    digestion and the resulting insulin spike. Its high carbs and high FATS that are bad deary!

    --
    RoT

    This was what I was thinking. Is there any scientific evidence
    supporting this? Do you know of any links I could read?

    Thank you,

    Reba

  2. I know that. I thought I could get some advice here.
    What is the point of having the newsgroup if people can't use it for
    advice?

    I have been looking around. But regardless of which way of eating one
    picks, there's an argument on the other side. I just want to know about
    some bodily actions that may be taking place with certain foods. I am
    not asking for anyone's advice on any particular diet to follow.

  3. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Refined and high-GI carbs eaten in the absence of dietary fat is what
    makes you fat.

    What do, chocolate, donuts, french fries, mac and cheese, potato chips,
    ice cream, and potato with butter, all have in common? High carb mixed with
    high fat. It's the worst combination. Did you get mixed up, instead of
    saying protein and fat is ok? Or were you just being funny, and I missed the
    joke?

    Quoted message said:


    TC

  4. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Refined and high-GI carbs eaten in the absence of dietary fat is what
    makes you fat.

    What do, chocolate, donuts, french fries, mac and cheese, potato chips,
    ice cream, and potato with butter, all have in common? High carb mixed with
    high fat. It's the worst combination. Did you get mixed up, instead of
    saying protein and fat is ok? Or were you just being funny, and I missed the
    joke?

    Quoted message said:


    TC

  5. Reba,

    Do you think you can trust anyone who addresses you this way?:

    "> what a load of [censored], its quite the opposite actually, protein SHOULD
    be eaten with carbs to slow

    Quoted message said:

    digestion and the resulting insulin spike. Its high carbs and high FATS that are bad deary!"

    Don't buy FIT FOR LIFE. Borrow it from a library or someone you know.
    Read the principles for yourself. Let your common sense guide you.

    There are obviously people sitting on this list who are doing
    everything they can to sabotage the best attempts to protect people's
    health for economic interests.

    Natural Hygiene is a threat to the "health industry". It is
    inexpensive and will rid you of a good deal of what ails you as a
    matter of course.

    That is the last thing in the world that some "health practioners"
    want.

    VP

  6. This is a response I can respect. It obviously comes from a thinking
    and responsible person.

    I've never said: "Believe me!"

    I recommend that you run like hell from the people who are coming off
    here with a [censored]-sure, "I'm right" attitude. They are dangerous and do
    not have your best interest at heart.

    All I've ever asked is: Check it out for yourself and decide if it's
    right for you. I have no vested interest in Natural Hygiene. It is
    simply the best way of life I've ever found.

    BTW: I live a modified version of Natural Hygiene. I do not live
    exactly according to the principles as laid down in the books. I don't
    believe anyone does. We all do what we can, as much as we can at any
    given time.

    To your health,
    VP

  7. "Reba" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I had hoped that since this news group is called
    "sci.med.nutrition" that someone who really understood how this all
    works could help me with it by explaining it without being married to
    some particular diet that they embrace and criticizing my choice 'not'
    to eat meat or 'to' eat dairy without hanging everything on that
    fact(s) alone.

    You also posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb

  8. Visual Purple wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Reba,

    Do you think you can trust anyone who addresses you this way?:

    What? Actually I was addressing you, obviously you have no grasp of usenet discussions or threading.

    --
    RoT

  9. Visual Purple wrote

    Quoted message said:

    You're storing fat in your body as a way of insulating your internal
    organs from the toxins being produced by incorrect food combining.

    gee, and all this time I thought it was because I was eating too much. Thanks so much for clearing
    that up.
    --
    RoT

  10. Reba said:

    So then why does pizza & maccaronie & cheese make you fat? They both
    have cheese and I also add a little butter in my maccarroni & cheese.

    Too many carbs overall. Adding fat will help, but it isn't a panacea.
    It won't do enough to mitigate overly huge amounts of refined grains.
    Reduce the amounts of pasta and white flour and keep the fat. And BTW,
    there is no nutrition in refined grain products like white pasta and
    bread. Any nutrition that the grain contained has been removed thru
    processing.

    Quoted message said:


    And YOu're saying that a baked potatoes with sour cream and butter
    actually ends up less fattening than a plain baked potatoe with nothing
    on it??

    Yep. Fat storage is triggered by hormones. Insulin in particular. Which
    is triggered by high blood glucose. Dietary fat will help attenuate the
    blood glucose spike somewhat. Again, it won't completely stop it, but
    it will help keep the blood glucose spike down a bit.

    Refined and starchy carb foods without added fats will be more
    fattening than the same food with the fat added. But too many refined
    and starchy carbs will still make you fat, and malnourished. Best to
    just cut the carbs to begin with.

    Have you heard of the French and/or the Mediteranian Paradoxes? They
    eat a lot of real fatty foods and are less fat and healthier than
    Americans. They eat less refined carbs and way more dietary fat. They
    have much less diabetes and heart disease. It is only a paradox if you
    believe the nonsense about dietary fat making you fat and that animal
    fats are unhealthy. And the Europeans are starting to catch up to the
    Americans because their kids are starting to eat as much sugary and
    carby [censored] as americans. RTE cereals (grain starch), half gallon jugs
    of soda (high fructose corn syrup), white pasta (grain starch), pizza
    and their thick crusts (grain starch), McFries (potatoes), etc.

    The problem ain't in the dietary fat.

    TC

  11. I know from personal experience, that adding globs of sour cream &
    butter to a baked potatoe will put more pounds on you than if you have
    the potatoe alone, or with a very very small amount of either or with a
    little low fat cottage cheese.

    TC's advice on that at least, is nonsense.

  12. [email hidden] wrote:
    :: Reba wrote:
    ::: I heard that one reason carbs make you put on extra fat is that
    ::: apart from being converted to sugar they are so easy to digest.
    ::
    :: Refined carbs and starchy foods digest quickly and cause a quick
    :: blood glucose spike which causes a quick insulin spike which
    :: triggers your body to store fat.
    ::
    :::
    ::: If you combined eating carbs with high protein foods (not meat)
    ::: and/or high fibre foods, would this help to curb their tendency to
    ::: cause you to put on weight from eating carb meals like macaroni &
    ::: cheese, pizza, etc.? Do eating certain foods in combinations help?
    :::
    ::: Thank you,
    :::
    ::: Reba
    ::: (PS - please don't advise me to eat meat. I'm a vegetarian)
    ::
    :: The Irish know how to get the best from potatoes. They steam them
    :: with the skin. This keeps the nutrients from being drained into a
    :: lot of water, as when you boil them, and the skins hold a lot of
    :: nutrients. And once the potatoes are cooked, they are mashed with a
    :: lot of fresh butter, cream, and/or milk. The fat in the dairy slows
    :: down the digestion and add to the satiation factor of the meal as a
    :: whole. Less blood glucose spike and your feel full longer.
    ::
    :: Potatoes eaten without added fat will spike the the blood glucose
    :: more than potatoes with fat added. Fat in a meal diminishes its
    :: overall glyceamic index value.
    ::
    :: I make a point of adding copious amounts of fat, whether thru milk,
    :: cream, butter, lard, tallow, or olive oil, to all my food, (ala
    :: french or mediterranian cuisine). It tastes great and contrary to
    :: popular belief, it does not make you fat.
    ::
    :: Refined and high-GI carbs eaten in the absence of dietary fat is what
    :: makes you fat.

    Good grief, man. Your typical SAD is full of refined, high GI carsb and
    dietary fat and that why people get fat.

    High carb and high fat = fat on your ass.

    Have you forgotten this already? Do you seriously think adding copious
    amounts of fat to any food will make it not fattening?

    Are you one of those here to like to smoke up the doobies?

    Hmm...maybe it's time for me to move on....

  13. Tom G wrote:
    :: <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :: news:[email hidden]...
    :::
    ::: Refined and high-GI carbs eaten in the absence of dietary fat is
    ::: what makes you fat.
    ::
    :: What do, chocolate, donuts, french fries, mac and cheese, potato
    :: chips, ice cream, and potato with butter, all have in common? High
    :: carb mixed with high fat. It's the worst combination. Did you get
    :: mixed up, instead of saying protein and fat is ok? Or were you just
    :: being funny, and I missed the joke?

    Okay, so I'm not in an alternative universe. TC did say he adds fat to all
    of HIS food, and I assume he eats a LC diet. Fat does tend to slow down the
    spike....but fat and carbs will raise insulin levenls and will promote fat
    storage. However, if you manage to not overeat, you can avoid getting fat.
    But most on us who are IR will end up eating more, as evidence proves, and
    will end up adding pounds.

    HC and HF is dangerous!

  14. Visual Purple wrote:
    :: Reba wrote:
    ::: I heard that one reason carbs make you put on extra fat is that
    ::: apart from being converted to sugar they are so easy to digest.
    :::
    ::: If you combined eating carbs with high protein foods (not meat)
    ::: and/or high fibre foods, would this help to curb their tendency to
    ::: cause you to put on weight from eating carb meals like macaroni &
    ::: cheese, pizza, etc.? Do eating certain foods in combinations help?
    :::
    ::: Thank you,
    :::
    ::: Reba
    ::: (PS - please don't advise me to eat meat. I'm a vegetarian)
    ::
    :: Reba, hi.
    ::
    :: Please look at the principles of proper food combining as described
    :: in the school of nutrition and healthy lifestyle known as Natural
    :: Hygiene.
    ::
    :: Carbs and proteins should never be eaten together

    What if you're trying to grow muscle?

    - certainly not
    :: refined carbs and high-fat animal protein as in the cases of pizza
    :: and mac and cheese.

    That would be carbs and fat, mostly. Animal protein isn't fat. Meat is
    typically high in fat. If you had said high-fat meat then you'd be closer to
    correct.

    ::
    :: You're storing fat in your body as a way of insulating your internal
    :: organs from the toxins being produced by incorrect food combining.
    ::
    :: It is all explained very clearly in Harvey and Marilyn Diamond's book
    :: Fit for Life.
    ::
    :: To your health,
    :: VP

  15. Ann said:

    I know from personal experience, that adding globs of sour cream &
    butter to a baked potatoe will put more pounds on you than if you have
    the potatoe alone, or with a very very small amount of either or with a
    little low fat cottage cheese.

    TC's advice on that at least, is nonsense.

    How do you know that it was the sour cream and not the potato? You
    don't. It could just as easily been the potato chips and the soda you
    had the night before. Or the pie and ice cream you had for dessert.

    Calories mean squat. Dietary fat means squat. If calories or fat meant
    anything, everyone, virtually without exception, who went on a
    low-calorie low-fat diet would succeed every time and they would all be
    thin. 98% or more who do low-fat low-calorie dieting fails.

    Virtually everyone who tries to diet by low-fat and low-calorie fails.
    That means that calories and fat means squat.

    BUT... if you restrict carbs, you will easily (well easier than low
    fat) succeed in virtually every case, at least 98%.

    For anyone with statistical training, you will realize that that covers
    everyone under the bell curve up to about the third standard deviation.
    Which means that past statistics clearly have shown that
    low-fat/low-calorie is completely wrong, mathematically speaking. It
    simply does not work.

    I've challenged those in sci.med.nutrition to explain the specific
    bio-chemical process that determines and monitors calories ingested and
    the subsequent process that supposedly triggers fat storage or fat use
    from that information, and no one can explain how it supposedly works.
    It is a modern medical fallacy. The body cannot measure or detect or
    respond to excess calorie consumption directly.

    The body is triggered to either store or use fat by the
    insulin/glucagon hormone balance process. The insulin/glucagon balance
    responds to the blood glucose levels. When blood glucose levels go up,
    insulin is produced, it triggers the bodies cells to convert the
    glucose into fat and store it. Conversely, when the blood glucose
    levels are within normal ranges, the body is not triggered to store
    fat. Blood glucose levels are thrown out of whack by consuming large
    amounts of carbohydrates, specifically the refined and starchy carbs.

    Thus a potato with lots of cream or butter will be digested slower and
    will affect the bgl less than a plain potato which will be absorbed
    faster and will cause a more pronounced insulin spike. The more
    pronounced insulin spike will cause the body to store fat quicker and
    longer.

    Low fat milk is a waste of time. Low fat foods is working against
    weight loss. Again the French paradox shows clearly that people who eat
    a lot of fat are not necessarily fat. That fact cannot be ignored.

    TC

  16. Ann said:

    I know from personal experience, that adding globs of sour cream &
    butter to a baked potatoe will put more pounds on you than if you have
    the potatoe alone, or with a very very small amount of either or with a
    little low fat cottage cheese.

    TC's advice on that at least, is nonsense.

    How do you know that it was the sour cream and not the potato? You
    don't. It could just as easily been the potato chips and the soda you
    had the night before. Or the pie and ice cream you had for dessert.

    Calories mean squat. Dietary fat means squat. If calories or fat meant
    anything, everyone, virtually without exception, who went on a
    low-calorie low-fat diet would succeed every time and they would all be
    thin. 98% or more who do low-fat low-calorie dieting fails.

    Virtually everyone who tries to diet by low-fat and low-calorie fails.
    That means that calories and fat means squat.

    BUT... if you restrict carbs, you will easily (well easier than low
    fat) succeed in virtually every case, at least 98%.

    For anyone with statistical training, you will realize that that covers
    everyone under the bell curve up to about the third standard deviation.
    Which means that past statistics clearly have shown that
    low-fat/low-calorie is completely wrong, mathematically speaking. It
    simply does not work.

    I've challenged those in sci.med.nutrition to explain the specific
    bio-chemical process that determines and monitors calories ingested and
    the subsequent process that supposedly triggers fat storage or fat use
    from that information, and no one can explain how it supposedly works.
    It is a modern medical fallacy. The body cannot measure or detect or
    respond to excess calorie consumption directly.

    The body is triggered to either store or use fat by the
    insulin/glucagon hormone balance process. The insulin/glucagon balance
    responds to the blood glucose levels. When blood glucose levels go up,
    insulin is produced, it triggers the bodies cells to convert the
    glucose into fat and store it. Conversely, when the blood glucose
    levels are within normal ranges, the body is not triggered to store
    fat. Blood glucose levels are thrown out of whack by consuming large
    amounts of carbohydrates, specifically the refined and starchy carbs.

    Thus a potato with lots of cream or butter will be digested slower and
    will affect the bgl less than a plain potato which will be absorbed
    faster and will cause a more pronounced insulin spike. The more
    pronounced insulin spike will cause the body to store fat quicker and
    longer.

    Low fat milk is a waste of time. Low fat foods is working against
    weight loss. Again the French paradox shows clearly that people who eat
    a lot of fat are not necessarily fat. That fact cannot be ignored.

    TC

  17. Reba wrote

    Quoted message said:
    RoT said:

    Visual Purple wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Carbs and proteins should never be eaten together - certainly not
    refined carbs and high-fat animal protein as in the cases of pizza and
    mac and cheese.

    what a load of [censored], its quite the opposite actually, protein SHOULD be eaten with carbs to slow
    digestion and the resulting insulin spike. Its high carbs and high FATS that are bad deary!

    --
    RoT

    This was what I was thinking. Is there any scientific evidence
    supporting this? Do you know of any links I could read?

    Thank you,

    Reba

    Hi Reba, I don't agree with absolutely everything here but most of it is pretty much on the mark
    IMHO

    http://www.tbkfitness.org/Glycemicload.html

    --
    RoT

  18. Reba wrote

    Quoted message said:
    RoT said:

    Visual Purple wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Carbs and proteins should never be eaten together - certainly not
    refined carbs and high-fat animal protein as in the cases of pizza and
    mac and cheese.

    what a load of [censored], its quite the opposite actually, protein SHOULD be eaten with carbs to slow
    digestion and the resulting insulin spike. Its high carbs and high FATS that are bad deary!

    --
    RoT

    This was what I was thinking. Is there any scientific evidence
    supporting this? Do you know of any links I could read?

    Thank you,

    Reba

    Hi Reba, I don't agree with absolutely everything here but most of it is pretty much on the mark
    IMHO

    http://www.tbkfitness.org/Glycemicload.html

    --
    RoT

  19. Common sense and moderation are the keys to good health. They reflect a
    balanced personality and will result in a balanced state of health.

    It sounds as though some of you are looking for justifications to eat
    all the carbs and/or fats you want and not suffer any consequences.
    Then you go about spouting pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo that you hope
    will bring you to the conclusions you want to get to.

    Get real.

  20. Common sense and moderation are the keys to good health. They reflect a
    balanced personality and will result in a balanced state of health.

    It sounds as though some of you are looking for justifications to eat
    all the carbs and/or fats you want and not suffer any consequences.
    Then you go about spouting pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo that you hope
    will bring you to the conclusions you want to get to.

    Get real.

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