Carbo confusion



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C

Cwazee Yeti

Guest
Hello all,

Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!

There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter word.

However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.

Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
intended) looking to loss weight?

Yeti
 
D

David Kerber

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Hello all,
>
> Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
>
> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
> letter word.
>
> However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
> loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
>
> Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
> intended) looking to loss weight?

Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the relative
amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even Atkins and South
Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
 
B

Badger South

Guest
On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
>
>There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
>(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter word.
>
>However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
>loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
>
>Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
>intended) looking to loss weight?
>
>Yeti

There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.

The body makes glucose as needed via gluconeogenesis.

-B
 
C

Chris Zacho "Th

Guest
Carbohydrates are very important to anyone who is entering into any athletic event (balanced to the
amount of exertion required, of course).

These various diets, such as Atkins, are designed for people who are trying to reduce their weight,
or control it within a sedentary lifestyle (a.k.a. "couch potatoes").

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
 
D

David Kerber

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> >
> >Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
> >
> >There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
> >(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
> >letter word.
> >
> >However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
> >loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
> >
> >Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
> >intended) looking to loss weight?
> >
> >Yeti
>
> There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.
>
> The body makes glucose as needed via gluconeogenesis.

What is that, and what does it use for raw material?

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
 
W

W K

Guest
"David Kerber" <[email protected]_ids.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
> >
> > There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
> > (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
> > letter word.
> >
> > However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
> > loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.

> > Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
> > intended) looking to loss weight?
>
> Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the
> relative amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even Atkins
> and South Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.

Not sure precisely what the book says, but the message that people have taken home (and the products
they sell!) are all about "carbs are bad".

If there is any scientific merit in the theory, its processed food with high levels of sugar - esp
glucose - rather than fruit+veg or pasta. (Less sure about bread though - I do believe that American
style bread has more processed and added sugar than the stuff I eat) Its certainly a bizarre idea
that you should be worried about the amount of carbohydrates there are in beer!

Plenty of weight loss diets have worked with plenty of carbohydrates.

And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?
 
M

Mike Schwab

Guest
David Kerber wrote: <snip>
> Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the
> relative amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even Atkins
> and South Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.
>
> --
> Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!
>
> REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
Arthur Agatston, M.D. in 'The South Beach Diet' emphasises keeping the blood sugar level even. He
recommends whole grain bread over white bread, yams over potatoes, fettuchini alfredo over spaghetti
with tomato sauce, fruits and not their juices.

Quickly digested foods raise the blood sugar levels quickly to high levels, the pancrease releases
lots of insulin to store the sugar as fat, when the sugar is stored the levels get very low and you
get hungry and eat a lot. Consuming some carbohydrates just before hard exertion can be a good fuel,
but overall he recommends going with lean meats, good fats, and good vegatables.
 
W

W K

Guest
"Badger South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> >
> >Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
> >
> >There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
> >(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
> >letter word.
> >
> >However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
> >loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
> >
> >Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
> >intended) looking to loss weight?
> >
> >Yeti
>
> There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.

Whats that got to do with anything?

> The body makes glucose as needed via gluconeogenesis.

In the kind of quantities you'd require in order to exercise hard for 90 minutes? Or just enough to
stop your brain from giving up?
 
D

David Kerber

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

...

> > Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the
> > relative amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even
> > Atkins and South Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.
>
> Not sure precisely what the book says, but the message that people have taken home (and the
> products they sell!) are all about "carbs are bad".

True and typical, with the way the media works with sound bites rather than giving a reasonably
accurate picture of the full story.

> If there is any scientific merit in the theory, its processed food with high levels of sugar - esp
> glucose - rather than fruit+veg or pasta. (Less sure about bread though - I do believe that
> American style bread has more processed and added sugar than the stuff I eat)

I believe the biggest difference is the amount of fiber in the bread; the highly processed white
bread has little of it, and fiber slows the absorption of carbs, reducing its glycemic index.

> Its certainly a bizarre idea that you should be worried about the amount of carbohydrates there
> are in beer!

And you'll never get rid of it completely, because alcohol itself is a carbohydrate.

>
> Plenty of weight loss diets have worked with plenty of carbohydrates.
>
> And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?

As I said in another msg, it all goes back to the quantities people are eating. I weigh 180 right
now, and I eat exactly the same things I did when I got to 199 lbs (the highest I've ever been
weighed at), just less of them.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
 
M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
W K wrote:

> And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?

They eat much less overall, and walk a lot more. My German housemate used to joke about having a
"French breakfast" -- coffee and a cigarette. Maybe not too healthy, but not fattening either. And
you won't see anything in France like those humongous salads from Cheesecake Factory. Or Thirsty-
Two ouncers.

Matt O.
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Matt O'Toole wrote:
> W K wrote:
>
>> And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?
>
> They eat much less overall, and walk a lot more. My German housemate used to joke about having a
> "French breakfast" -- coffee and a cigarette. Maybe not too healthy, but not fattening either. And
> you won't see anything in France like those humongous salads from Cheesecake Factory. Or Thirsty-
> Two ouncers.
>
> Matt O.

We sometimes make a joke over here (Sweden ). Shall we take an American walk? That's going cruising
in the car ;)))
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
T

Terry Morse

Guest
Mike Schwab wrote:

> Consuming some carbohydrates just before hard exertion can be a good fuel

Make that before, during, and after hard exertion. Carbs are an aerobic athlete's best friend.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
 
K

Kevan Smith

Guest
On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) from
http://groups.google.com wrote:

>Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
>intended) looking to loss weight?

Carbs are not bad for you at all. Too much sugar is bad for you, of course, but your momma probably
told you that. In fact, too much of anything is bad. Just stick to a sensible diet, try to match
your caloric intake to how many calories you burn, and exercise regularly.

--
[email protected]
What mistakes did you make last time?
91
 
K

Kevan Smith

Guest
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:43:29 -0500, Badger South <[email protected]> from wrote:

>There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.

Yeah? Want to come on a 100 mile bike ride with me? I'll eat carbs, and you won't, and we'll see who
can finish.

--
[email protected]
Look at the order in which you do things.
102
 
K

Kevan Smith

Guest
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:11:54 -0600, Mike Schwab <[email protected]> from
wrote:

>Arthur Agatston, M.D. in 'The South Beach Diet' emphasises keeping the blood sugar level even. He
>recommends whole grain bread over white bread, yams over potatoes, fettuchini alfredo over
>spaghetti with tomato sauce, fruits and not their juices.

Whole grain breads are no panacea. Many contain sugar. The fructose in fruit juice is OK, but the
stuff made with high-fructose corn syrup pretty much has a doubled sugar content. White potatoes are
fine in moderation.

--
[email protected]
Use fewer notes.
68
 
T

Thomas Reynolds

Guest
[email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hello all,
>
> Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
>
> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
> letter word.
>
> ....
>
> Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
> intended) looking to loss weight?
>

The San Diego Union recently had an excellent article on the nutritional value of whole grain foods,
in particular, carbs:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/food/news_mz1f4grains.html

As your read this, keep in mind what another poster noted, that these diets are for sedentary
people. The point I'm making is that if you increase your carb intake to accomodate endurance
cycling you can still benefit from whole grain carb sources.

Tom
 
P

Pat

Guest
> Carbohydrates are very important to anyone who is entering into any athletic event (balanced to
> the amount of exertion required, of course).
>
> These various diets, such as Atkins, are designed for people who are trying to reduce their
> weight, or control it within a sedentary lifestyle (a.k.a. "couch potatoes").
>
> "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Wrong, wrong, wrong when you are talking about sedentary dieters. Read the book. Atkins demands that
people on his diet exercise. It's an integral part of the whole diet. I rode all last summer eating
only cheese as a snack and drinking only water during a ride. When I rode a century or a metric
century, I would eat the fruit and Gatorade offered at the rest stops. It works well. I did two
centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric centuries around Texas
during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides. Oh--and I lost 38 pounds
in 5 months.

Pat in TX
 
P

Pat

Guest
> Not sure precisely what the book says, but the message that people have taken home (and the
> products they sell!) are all about "carbs are bad".
>
> If there is any scientific merit in the theory, its processed food with
high
> levels of sugar - esp glucose - rather than fruit+veg or pasta. (Less sure about bread though - I
> do believe that American style bread has more processed and added sugar than the stuff I eat) Its
> certainly a bizarre idea that you should be worried about the amount
of
> carbohydrates there are in beer!
>
> Plenty of weight loss diets have worked with plenty of carbohydrates.
>
> And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?

The Atkins book is all about eating carbs that are low glycemic in nature and that corresponds
mostly to un-refined ones and about cutting sugar out of the diet. And, these days, you can't talk
about "American style bread" as there are many different types of bread that are "American." Just
yesterday, I was looking at potato bread, 5 grain bread,7 grain bread, whole wheat bread, honey
whole wheat, etc. etc. Even the "plain" white bread is now fortified with all sorts of things.

but, all people hear is the "carbs are bad" part of the message.

Pat in TX
 
J

Just Zis Guy

Guest
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:20:55 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in
message <[email protected]>:

>I did two centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric centuries around
>Texas during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides. Oh--and I lost 38
>pounds in 5 months.

I lost 28lb in 3 months eating my regular diet but cutting out added fat (and exercising). My boss
has lost 18lb in 6 weeks eating mainly fruit, cutting out all processed food and exercising not much
since he's had one arm in a sling for most of that time. Atkins is just another designer diet.

I don't know why the Atkins hype annoys me, but it does.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Pat wrote:
>> Carbohydrates are very important to anyone who is entering into any athletic event (balanced to
>> the amount of exertion required, of course).
>>
>> These various diets, such as Atkins, are designed for people who are trying to reduce their
>> weight, or control it within a sedentary lifestyle (a.k.a. "couch potatoes").
>>
>> "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"
>>
>> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrong when you are talking about sedentary dieters. Read the book. Atkins demands
> that people on his diet exercise. It's an integral part of the whole diet. I rode all last summer
> eating only cheese as a snack and drinking only water during a ride. When I rode a century or a
> metric century, I would eat the fruit and Gatorade offered at the rest stops. It works well. I did
> two centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric centuries around Texas
> during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides. Oh--and I lost 38 pounds
> in 5 months.
>
> Pat in TX

I bet you weren't going very fast during those century rides or you would have needed your carbs. If
you ride really heard it is absolutely impossible without your carbs as fuel. Well to an extent you
can use protein as fuel when you have run out of carbs but you don't ever wanna do that. It's kind
of like the muscles cannibalizing themselves to keep moving ;(

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
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