Carbo confusion

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cwazee Yeti, Feb 6, 2004.

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  1. Cwazee Yeti

    Cwazee Yeti Guest

    Hello all,

    Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!

    There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter word.

    However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
    loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.

    Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    intended) looking to loss weight?

    Yeti
     
    Tags:


  2. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Hello all,
    >
    > Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
    >
    > There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    > letter word.
    >
    > However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
    > loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
    >
    > Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    > intended) looking to loss weight?

    Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the relative
    amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even Atkins and South
    Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  3. Badger South

    Badger South Guest

    On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote:

    >Hello all,
    >
    >Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
    >
    >There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter word.
    >
    >However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
    >loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
    >
    >Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    >intended) looking to loss weight?
    >
    >Yeti

    There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.

    The body makes glucose as needed via gluconeogenesis.

    -B
     
  4. Carbohydrates are very important to anyone who is entering into any athletic event (balanced to the
    amount of exertion required, of course).

    These various diets, such as Atkins, are designed for people who are trying to reduce their weight,
    or control it within a sedentary lifestyle (a.k.a. "couch potatoes").

    "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"

    Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  5. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote:
    >
    > >Hello all,
    > >
    > >Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
    > >
    > >There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > >(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    > >letter word.
    > >
    > >However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
    > >loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
    > >
    > >Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    > >intended) looking to loss weight?
    > >
    > >Yeti
    >
    > There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.
    >
    > The body makes glucose as needed via gluconeogenesis.

    What is that, and what does it use for raw material?

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  6. W K

    W K Guest

    "David Kerber" <[email protected]_ids.net> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Hello all,
    > >
    > > Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
    > >
    > > There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > > (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    > > letter word.
    > >
    > > However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
    > > loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.

    > > Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    > > intended) looking to loss weight?
    >
    > Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the
    > relative amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even Atkins
    > and South Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.

    Not sure precisely what the book says, but the message that people have taken home (and the products
    they sell!) are all about "carbs are bad".

    If there is any scientific merit in the theory, its processed food with high levels of sugar - esp
    glucose - rather than fruit+veg or pasta. (Less sure about bread though - I do believe that American
    style bread has more processed and added sugar than the stuff I eat) Its certainly a bizarre idea
    that you should be worried about the amount of carbohydrates there are in beer!

    Plenty of weight loss diets have worked with plenty of carbohydrates.

    And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?
     
  7. Mike Schwab

    Mike Schwab Guest

    David Kerber wrote: <snip>
    > Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the
    > relative amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even Atkins
    > and South Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.
    >
    > --
    > Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!
    >
    > REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
    Arthur Agatston, M.D. in 'The South Beach Diet' emphasises keeping the blood sugar level even. He
    recommends whole grain bread over white bread, yams over potatoes, fettuchini alfredo over spaghetti
    with tomato sauce, fruits and not their juices.

    Quickly digested foods raise the blood sugar levels quickly to high levels, the pancrease releases
    lots of insulin to store the sugar as fat, when the sugar is stored the levels get very low and you
    get hungry and eat a lot. Consuming some carbohydrates just before hard exertion can be a good fuel,
    but overall he recommends going with lean meats, good fats, and good vegatables.
     
  8. W K

    W K Guest

    "Badger South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote:
    >
    > >Hello all,
    > >
    > >Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
    > >
    > >There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > >(Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    > >letter word.
    > >
    > >However, in the world of endurance sports (running, cycling, swimming, etc...) carbs and carbo-
    > >loading is as important as oxygen--requiring it as a main source of energy for the athlete.
    > >
    > >Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    > >intended) looking to loss weight?
    > >
    > >Yeti
    >
    > There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.

    Whats that got to do with anything?

    > The body makes glucose as needed via gluconeogenesis.

    In the kind of quantities you'd require in order to exercise hard for 90 minutes? Or just enough to
    stop your brain from giving up?
     
  9. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    ...

    > > Even then, they're not "bad" for you; they're a necessary part of your diet. It's just the
    > > relative amounts of carbs, protein, fat and other stuff that they are fighting about. Even
    > > Atkins and South Beach tell you to _reduce_ your carbs, not eliminate them completely.
    >
    > Not sure precisely what the book says, but the message that people have taken home (and the
    > products they sell!) are all about "carbs are bad".

    True and typical, with the way the media works with sound bites rather than giving a reasonably
    accurate picture of the full story.

    > If there is any scientific merit in the theory, its processed food with high levels of sugar - esp
    > glucose - rather than fruit+veg or pasta. (Less sure about bread though - I do believe that
    > American style bread has more processed and added sugar than the stuff I eat)

    I believe the biggest difference is the amount of fiber in the bread; the highly processed white
    bread has little of it, and fiber slows the absorption of carbs, reducing its glycemic index.

    > Its certainly a bizarre idea that you should be worried about the amount of carbohydrates there
    > are in beer!

    And you'll never get rid of it completely, because alcohol itself is a carbohydrate.

    >
    > Plenty of weight loss diets have worked with plenty of carbohydrates.
    >
    > And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?

    As I said in another msg, it all goes back to the quantities people are eating. I weigh 180 right
    now, and I eat exactly the same things I did when I got to 199 lbs (the highest I've ever been
    weighed at), just less of them.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  10. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    W K wrote:

    > And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?

    They eat much less overall, and walk a lot more. My German housemate used to joke about having a
    "French breakfast" -- coffee and a cigarette. Maybe not too healthy, but not fattening either. And
    you won't see anything in France like those humongous salads from Cheesecake Factory. Or Thirsty-
    Two ouncers.

    Matt O.
     
  11. Matt O'Toole wrote:
    > W K wrote:
    >
    >> And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?
    >
    > They eat much less overall, and walk a lot more. My German housemate used to joke about having a
    > "French breakfast" -- coffee and a cigarette. Maybe not too healthy, but not fattening either. And
    > you won't see anything in France like those humongous salads from Cheesecake Factory. Or Thirsty-
    > Two ouncers.
    >
    > Matt O.

    We sometimes make a joke over here (Sweden ). Shall we take an American walk? That's going cruising
    in the car ;)))
    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  12. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Mike Schwab wrote:

    > Consuming some carbohydrates just before hard exertion can be a good fuel

    Make that before, during, and after hard exertion. Carbs are an aerobic athlete's best friend.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  13. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On 6 Feb 2004 07:49:06 -0800, [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) from
    http://groups.google.com wrote:

    >Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    >intended) looking to loss weight?

    Carbs are not bad for you at all. Too much sugar is bad for you, of course, but your momma probably
    told you that. In fact, too much of anything is bad. Just stick to a sensible diet, try to match
    your caloric intake to how many calories you burn, and exercise regularly.

    --
    [email protected]
    What mistakes did you make last time?
    91
     
  14. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:43:29 -0500, Badger South <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. None. Zero.

    Yeah? Want to come on a 100 mile bike ride with me? I'll eat carbs, and you won't, and we'll see who
    can finish.

    --
    [email protected]
    Look at the order in which you do things.
    102
     
  15. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:11:54 -0600, Mike Schwab <[email protected]> from
    wrote:

    >Arthur Agatston, M.D. in 'The South Beach Diet' emphasises keeping the blood sugar level even. He
    >recommends whole grain bread over white bread, yams over potatoes, fettuchini alfredo over
    >spaghetti with tomato sauce, fruits and not their juices.

    Whole grain breads are no panacea. Many contain sugar. The fructose in fruit juice is OK, but the
    stuff made with high-fructose corn syrup pretty much has a doubled sugar content. White potatoes are
    fine in moderation.

    --
    [email protected]
    Use fewer notes.
    68
     
  16. [email protected] (Cwazee Yeti) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hello all,
    >
    > Firstly, I'm not a dietian/nutritionist so forgive the ignorance of my question :) !!!
    >
    > There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    > letter word.
    >
    > ....
    >
    > Again, I'm not a nutritionist, but are carbs only bad for you if you're a couch potato (no pun
    > intended) looking to loss weight?
    >

    The San Diego Union recently had an excellent article on the nutritional value of whole grain foods,
    in particular, carbs:

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/food/news_mz1f4grains.html

    As your read this, keep in mind what another poster noted, that these diets are for sedentary
    people. The point I'm making is that if you increase your carb intake to accomodate endurance
    cycling you can still benefit from whole grain carb sources.

    Tom
     
  17. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > Carbohydrates are very important to anyone who is entering into any athletic event (balanced to
    > the amount of exertion required, of course).
    >
    > These various diets, such as Atkins, are designed for people who are trying to reduce their
    > weight, or control it within a sedentary lifestyle (a.k.a. "couch potatoes").
    >
    > "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"
    >
    > Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    Wrong, wrong, wrong when you are talking about sedentary dieters. Read the book. Atkins demands that
    people on his diet exercise. It's an integral part of the whole diet. I rode all last summer eating
    only cheese as a snack and drinking only water during a ride. When I rode a century or a metric
    century, I would eat the fruit and Gatorade offered at the rest stops. It works well. I did two
    centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric centuries around Texas
    during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides. Oh--and I lost 38 pounds
    in 5 months.

    Pat in TX
     
  18. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > Not sure precisely what the book says, but the message that people have taken home (and the
    > products they sell!) are all about "carbs are bad".
    >
    > If there is any scientific merit in the theory, its processed food with
    high
    > levels of sugar - esp glucose - rather than fruit+veg or pasta. (Less sure about bread though - I
    > do believe that American style bread has more processed and added sugar than the stuff I eat) Its
    > certainly a bizarre idea that you should be worried about the amount
    of
    > carbohydrates there are in beer!
    >
    > Plenty of weight loss diets have worked with plenty of carbohydrates.
    >
    > And if bread is so bad, how come the French aren't fatter than Americans?

    The Atkins book is all about eating carbs that are low glycemic in nature and that corresponds
    mostly to un-refined ones and about cutting sugar out of the diet. And, these days, you can't talk
    about "American style bread" as there are many different types of bread that are "American." Just
    yesterday, I was looking at potato bread, 5 grain bread,7 grain bread, whole wheat bread, honey
    whole wheat, etc. etc. Even the "plain" white bread is now fortified with all sorts of things.

    but, all people hear is the "carbs are bad" part of the message.

    Pat in TX
     
  19. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:20:55 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message <[email protected]>:

    >I did two centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric centuries around
    >Texas during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides. Oh--and I lost 38
    >pounds in 5 months.

    I lost 28lb in 3 months eating my regular diet but cutting out added fat (and exercising). My boss
    has lost 18lb in 6 weeks eating mainly fruit, cutting out all processed food and exercising not much
    since he's had one arm in a sling for most of that time. Atkins is just another designer diet.

    I don't know why the Atkins hype annoys me, but it does.

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  20. Pat wrote:
    >> Carbohydrates are very important to anyone who is entering into any athletic event (balanced to
    >> the amount of exertion required, of course).
    >>
    >> These various diets, such as Atkins, are designed for people who are trying to reduce their
    >> weight, or control it within a sedentary lifestyle (a.k.a. "couch potatoes").
    >>
    >> "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"
    >>
    >> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
    >
    > Wrong, wrong, wrong when you are talking about sedentary dieters. Read the book. Atkins demands
    > that people on his diet exercise. It's an integral part of the whole diet. I rode all last summer
    > eating only cheese as a snack and drinking only water during a ride. When I rode a century or a
    > metric century, I would eat the fruit and Gatorade offered at the rest stops. It works well. I did
    > two centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric centuries around Texas
    > during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides. Oh--and I lost 38 pounds
    > in 5 months.
    >
    > Pat in TX

    I bet you weren't going very fast during those century rides or you would have needed your carbs. If
    you ride really heard it is absolutely impossible without your carbs as fuel. Well to an extent you
    can use protein as fuel when you have run out of carbs but you don't ever wanna do that. It's kind
    of like the muscles cannibalizing themselves to keep moving ;(

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
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