Carbo confusion

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cwazee Yeti, Feb 6, 2004.

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  1. Pat wrote:
    >> Of course these situations occur all over the world. But still it's only in the U.S. that people
    >> get obesely overweight from it. I remember working for an Ericsson Company in Sweden a couple of
    >> years ago. Ericsson sold it to a U.S. company and all of a sudden we'd see all those incredibly
    >> fat people in our cafeteria. To us it was quite a shock. Bottom line is that these people were
    >> doing exactly the same jobs that we were doing in the same kind of offices and using the same
    >> kind of tools etc. But they weighed more than twice as much as us. The doubles were the once we
    >> considered normal. Some of them probably weighed three and four times as much.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Perre
    >>
    > Thanks. It's wonderful to know that only people in the U.S. get fat. I think back to when I was
    > living in Germany and there for sure weren't any fat Germans walking around. All that sausage and
    > beer and heavy bread sure keeps them slim!
    >
    > Pat in TX

    I trace a very subtle irony in your post. However subtle your irony is unfortunately it is a fact
    that people in the U.S. are fatter than anywhere else. Yes you see fat people in Germany and Sweden
    too. But nothing like you do in the states. And the fatties are just that much fatter and there are
    that much more of them. I'm not trying to be rude or insulting to Americans. This is worrying me
    very much since we do see the same tendencies in Europe too, although we are 20-30 years behind
    maybe. It's what is happening due to processed food or whatever is the cause. I went to grade
    school and Junior High during the sixities in Florida and we didn't have that many fat kids then
    compared to today.
    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     


  2. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:25:49 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >>
    >> >It's not "just another designer diet."
    >>
    >> Yes, it is. It's just another fad diet that goes in and out of style over
    >the
    >> years. Atkins didn't even really "invent" it. That dubious honor goes to
    >William
    >> Banting circa 1863.
    >
    >
    >Some fad, then....lasted over 140 years.

    Yes, going in and out of fashion just like low hemlines. A recurrent fad diet is just what it is.

    --
    [email protected]
    Imagine a caterpillar moving.
    31
     
  3. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:47:35 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> from
    Telia Internet wrote:

    >I'm not trying to be rude or insulting to Americans. This is worrying me very much since we do see
    >the same tendencies in Europe too, although we are 20-30 years behind maybe.

    Not that far off .... once we get our high fructose corn syrup in ya, it's all over!

    --
    [email protected]
    Humanize something free of error.
    50
     
  4. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:36:07 +0000 (UTC), "W K" <[email protected]> from BT
    Openworld wrote:

    >This corn syrup lark sounds to me like another excuse for those people who have no self control.

    High fructose corn syryp, unlike regular sucrose, heads straight for the liver and goofs around with
    glycogen production. At least, that's preliminary research. Obesity is also mainly a class issue.
    Rich whitey is seldom obese; it's usually poor people and minorities who are obese. Self-control is
    one factor, but so is the cheapness of high-calorie foods and the lack of nutritional and
    physiological education.

    >I resent this of course, as my food (esp bread, I read all the labels) is not laced with sugar at
    >all, and especially not HFCS, and I'm not getting slimmer.
    >
    >I admit it, its all my fault, and doing 150 miles a week just makes me hungry!

    150 miles a week isn't much. You'll only get some slimming benefit from it if you ride it really
    fast. I do 150 miles about every 3 days.

    --
    [email protected]
    Give the name away.
    65
     
  5. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:43:33 +0000 (UTC), "W K" <[email protected]> from BT
    Openworld wrote:

    >
    >"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:24:27 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote in message
    >> <[email protected]>:
    >>
    >> >To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
    >> >yeast. But it needn't be very much.
    >>
    >> Er, no it's not. My wife bakes her own bread and no sugar is used. It might be necessary when
    >> baking with the chemically adjusted taste-free white crap that passes for flour in steam-baked
    >> white [aka cotton wool] bread, but who would want to eat that anyway?
    >
    >Get yourself to tesco and read the labels. Very few loaves will have added sugar, even the crappy
    >white bread.

    Here are some added sugars put into breads: high fructose corn syrup, glucose, dextrose, honey and,
    of course, sugar. Most breads have one of these in them.

    --
    [email protected]
    Intentions - nility of - humility of - credibility of.
    66
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Mark Weiss" <[email protected]> writes:
    > >> To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
    > >> yeast. But it needn't be very much.

    > Discussions of yeasts, enzymes & temperature ranges aside, my point is that there are a lot of
    > foods that have sugar added to them - often unnecessarily. Just checking casually around my
    > larder, examples include a tub of (cheap) peanut butter, a tin of water chestnuts and a tin of
    > Campbell's soup. If I had a bottle of catsup, I bet that would be loaded with sugar, to an extent
    > rivalling pancake syrup. In processed foods the stuff is insidiously everywhere.
    >
    > There are better brands of peanut butter available with no added sugar, but I can rarely afford
    > them. The "budget brands" of foods always seem to be the ones with the most added sugar (cheap
    > filler). cheers, Tom

    I know you're not exactly rolling in it, so you may not have a Costco membership, but you probably
    have a friend or family member whose membership you can mooch off of (what I do).

    Last time I went in, the local Costco had a 2kg jar of Adams peanut butter (ingredients: peanuts,
    salt) for about C$6.25. This is four times the size of the typically $5 jar you get at Save-On.

    Another possible source is the bulk foods aisle, as they usually have peanuts-&-salt peanut butter
    in the better stocked stores (Superstore, Save-On, etc.)

    Costco for better living,
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  7. W K

    W K Guest

    "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:43:33 +0000 (UTC), "W K" <[email protected]> from
    BT
    > Openworld wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:24:27 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote in message
    > >> <[email protected]>:
    > >>
    > >> >To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
    > >> >yeast. But it needn't be very much.
    > >>
    > >> Er, no it's not. My wife bakes her own bread and no sugar is used. It might be necessary when
    > >> baking with the chemically adjusted taste-free white crap that passes for flour in steam-baked
    > >> white [aka cotton wool] bread, but who would want to eat that anyway?
    > >
    > >Get yourself to tesco and read the labels. Very few loaves will have added sugar, even the crappy
    > >white bread.
    >
    > Here are some added sugars put into breads: high fructose corn syrup,
    glucose,
    > dextrose, honey and, of course, sugar. Most breads have one of these in
    them.

    Not in "tesco" or other stores where Guy lives.
     
  8. Kevan Smith wrote:
    > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:47:35 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> from Telia
    > Internet wrote:
    >
    >> I'm not trying to be rude or insulting to Americans. This is worrying me very much since we do
    >> see the same tendencies in Europe too, although we are 20-30 years behind maybe.
    >
    > Not that far off .... once we get our high fructose corn syrup in ya, it's all over!

    Yes. Nowadays that we have the internet everything seeems to spread so much faster. Maybe I should
    do something about my broadband connection ;)

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  9. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:36:07 +0000 (UTC), "W K" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >I doubt it. I am neither american or thin. ... This corn syrup lark sounds to me like another
    >excuse for those people who have no self control.

    Possibly; but it is true that nearly all of our food has "high fructose corn syrup" as an
    ingredient. Whether that has an effect on our weight I can't tell you.

    >I resent this of course, as my food (esp bread, I read all the labels) is not laced with sugar at
    >all, and especially not HFCS, and I'm not getting slimmer.
    >
    >I admit it, its all my fault, and doing 150 miles a week just makes me hungry!

    It could just be you. People are so obsessed with weight, and apparently it's not just here in
    the US. Are you healthy? Do you feel OK? Are your statistics (blood pressure, resting heart rate,
    etc) good?

    I'm overweight, by numbers on the scale and by shape. I've got an aerobelly. I've found, however,
    that I'm at my healthy weight -- at significantly lower weight, my shape is similar, but I'm not
    able to function nearly as well.

    So, ride your 150 miles per week. Enjoy it! Then, eat your huge meals. Enjoy them! The riding and
    the eating together make a good team for keeping you body, mind, and soul in working condition.

    If you have health problems as a result of your weight, that doesn't apply.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  10. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:35:19 -0600, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Obesity is also mainly a class issue. Rich whitey is seldom obese; it's usually poor people and
    >minorities who are obese. Self-control is one factor, but so is the cheapness of high-calorie foods
    >and the lack of nutritional and physiological education.

    Cute. I suspect, however, that you're entirely wrong. Your "rich whitey" eats the same yummy garbage
    as your poor/minority. "Rich whitey" doesn't need to care about the cost of food, but that doesn't
    mean he won't touch cheap stuff. It just means that he can afford MORE of it, as well as the
    expensive gourmet food that's even more calorie-dense.

    The lack of nutritional and physiological education is not exclusive of your "rich whitey" either.

    In fact, your "rich whitey" kid grows up playing video games. It's the poor/minorities that have to
    venture outside and play basketball with their friends; at least they get some exercise. The
    uneducated ones grow up and can only find work as manual labor, and get loads of exercise that way.

    No, I doubt that obesity is class-specific. It's just people like you, searching for class issues,
    who make class an issue.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  11. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >> >It's not "just another designer diet."
    > >>
    > >> Yes, it is. It's just another fad diet that goes in and out of style
    over
    > >the
    > >> years. Atkins didn't even really "invent" it. That dubious honor goes
    to
    > >William
    > >> Banting circa 1863.
    > >
    > >
    > >Some fad, then....lasted over 140 years.
    >
    > Yes, going in and out of fashion just like low hemlines. A recurrent fad
    diet is
    > just what it is.

    No, it's a different way of eating. It requires discipline and education and thought. You should try
    it. Or at least know what it is you're bashing.

    Pat in TX
     
  12. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:03:54 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >
    >> >> >It's not "just another designer diet."
    >> >>
    >> >> Yes, it is. It's just another fad diet that goes in and out of style
    >over
    >> >the
    >> >> years. Atkins didn't even really "invent" it. That dubious honor goes
    >to
    >> >William
    >> >> Banting circa 1863.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Some fad, then....lasted over 140 years.
    >>
    >> Yes, going in and out of fashion just like low hemlines. A recurrent fad
    >diet is
    >> just what it is.
    >
    >No, it's a different way of eating. It requires discipline and education and thought. You should
    >try it. Or at least know what it is you're bashing.

    I don't have to try it to know what it is. It's a fad diet, for sure, and it's not a very healthy
    one, at that. All diets, not just low-carb, require some discipline, education and thought.

    --
    [email protected]
    Work at a different speed.
    116
     
  13. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:55:20 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> from The
    Esoteric c0wz Society wrote:

    >I'm overweight, by numbers on the scale and by shape. I've got an aerobelly. I've found, however,
    >that I'm at my healthy weight -- at significantly lower weight, my shape is similar, but I'm not
    >able to function nearly as well.

    At a significantly lower rat, that is, with your BMI in a healthy range, you would be less
    susceptible to any number of overweight-related maladies. Don't fool yourself. You may be happy
    being fat, but you aren't doing your health any favors.

    --
    [email protected]
    Mute and continue.
    93
     
  14. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:00:50 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> from The
    Esoteric c0wz Society wrote:

    >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:35:19 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Obesity is also mainly a class issue. Rich whitey is seldom obese; it's usually poor people and
    >>minorities who are obese. Self-control is one factor, but so is the cheapness of high-calorie
    >>foods and the lack of nutritional and physiological education.
    >
    >Cute. I suspect, however, that you're entirely wrong.

    I'm not.

    See the book "Fat Land." It has undeniable evidence that rich white people are obese far less often
    than poorer classes and races.

    --
    [email protected]
    How would you have done it?
    35
     
  15. Kevan Smith wrote:
    > All diets, not just low-carb, require some discipline, education and thought.

    And that's why they are all bound to fail unless we seriously do something about changing our whole
    life at the same time.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  16. "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Having to sit at a "workstation" and answer dumb questions on the phone
    all
    > day long, not much autonomy in their jobs, getting $12 an hour, and doing this year after year
    > after year. They would have a coke or a cup of
    coffee
    > on their desks, too, but usually a coke. Then, they would go home to 2 or
    3
    > kids and have to start a "second shift" of work. They didn't have time to go to a gym or get much
    > exercise outside of work. Are these situations ONLY American situations? It seems to me that they
    > would occur any place around the globe where people work in offices.

    Except, in other parts of the world, when you got up from that desk job, you'd have to walk to your
    bus/tram/tube/train stop, perhaps stand during your ride, and then walk from the stop to your home.
    You might stop at the store on the way, because many homes in Europe and especially Japan have small
    refrigerators, so that walk home might be weight-resistant. Meanwhile, the American counterpart gets
    in her car and drives home. She might walk 20 steps in total.

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

    Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

    New CD coming out this month! See: http://www.tiferet.net

    "To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
    was you."
     
  17. Art Harris

    Art Harris Guest

    Cwazee Yeti wrote:

    > There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    > letter word.

    There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and had
    serious heart trouble.

    Art Harris
     
  18. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    > Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    >
    >
    >> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    >> letter word.
    >
    > There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and had
    > serious heart trouble.

    And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
    Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
    of Truth ***
     
  19. Dan Cosley wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    >> Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >>> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    >>> letter word.
    >>
    >> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    >> had serious heart trouble.
    >
    > And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?
    >
    > -- Dan

    Are you dumb or just pretending to not see his point?

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  20. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:34:56 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley
    <[email protected]> from University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    >> Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >>> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-
    >>> letter word.
    >>
    >> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    >> had serious heart trouble.
    >
    >And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?

    Fixx had a congenital heart defect. Atkins weighed 258 pounds while supposedly following his own
    diet, and the heart problems were attributed to a virus. Still, he did die from a fall, so, all we
    can say for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet.

    --
    [email protected]
    Always give yourself credit for having more than personality.
    39
     
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