Carbo confusion

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cwazee Yeti, Feb 6, 2004.

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  1. S O R N I

    S O R N I Guest

    Kevan Smith wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:34:56 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> from
    > University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus wrote:
    >
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    >>> Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >>>> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter
    >>>> word.
    >>>
    >>> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    >>> had serious heart trouble.
    >>
    >> And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?
    >
    > Fixx had a congenital heart defect. Atkins weighed 258 pounds while supposedly following his own
    > diet, and the heart problems were attributed to a virus. Still, he did die from a fall, so, all we
    > can say for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet.

    Bzzzt! Wrong.

    Those reports are being pushed by PETA and pro-vegetarian doofi. What I heard was he gained over 60
    pounds' FLUID weight *after* his fall, due to {insert hospital-sounding stuff here}.

    Bill "not a pro-Atkins person, either (although I do likes my bacon!)" S.
     


  2. Kevan Smith wrote:
    > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:47:35 GMT, "Per Elms├Ąter" <[email protected]> from Telia
    > Internet wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I'm not trying to be rude or insulting to Americans. This is worrying me very much since we do see
    >>the same tendencies in Europe too, although we are 20-30 years behind maybe.
    >
    >
    > Not that far off .... once we get our high fructose corn syrup in ya, it's all over!
    >

    Precious Bodily Fluids?

    >
    > --
    > [email protected] Humanize something free of error. 50
     
  3. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:28:19 GMT, "S o r n i" <[email protected]> from
    RoadRunner - West wrote:

    >Kevan Smith wrote:
    >> On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:34:56 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> from
    >> University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    >>>> Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >>>>> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter
    >>>>> word.
    >>>>
    >>>> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    >>>> had serious heart trouble.
    >>>
    >>> And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?
    >>
    >> Fixx had a congenital heart defect. Atkins weighed 258 pounds while supposedly following his own
    >> diet, and the heart problems were attributed to a virus. Still, he did die from a fall, so, all
    >> we can say for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet.
    >
    >Bzzzt! Wrong.
    >
    >Those reports are being pushed by PETA and pro-vegetarian doofi. What I heard was he gained over 60
    >pounds' FLUID weight *after* his fall, due to {insert hospital-sounding stuff here}.

    That's one side of the story. The other side says his diet caused it. I didn't take either side. I
    presented facts with no spin. Anyway, PETA is cool. They do a lot of good work, and I'm now very
    close to being vegan thanks to their help.

    --
    [email protected]
    Look closely at the most embarrassing details & amplify them.
    117
     
  4. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Rick Onanian <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > Cute. I suspect, however, that you're entirely wrong. Your "rich whitey" eats the same yummy
    > garbage as your poor/minority. "Rich whitey" doesn't need to care about the cost of food, but that
    > doesn't mean he won't touch cheap stuff. It just means that he can afford MORE of it, as well as
    > the expensive gourmet food that's even more calorie-dense.

    Rich whitey doesn't need to cook much.

    Tonight I'm making sawmill gravy on bannock. Ah, sweet luxury. If I had another couple of bucks I
    could stroganoff-ize it with mushrooms and sour cream, maybe top it with a few perogies, and sub the
    bannock with egg noodles. Some homemade 'slaw on the side would be nice. But, sawmill gravy on
    oatmeal bannock ain't so bad. Beats <ugh> Kraft Dinner. If I had a million dollars ...

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  5. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] me.san.rr.com says...
    > Kevan Smith wrote:
    > > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:34:56 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> from
    > > University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus wrote:
    > >
    > >> In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    > >>> Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    > >>>> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter
    > >>>> word.
    > >>>
    > >>> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    > >>> had serious heart trouble.
    > >>
    > >> And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?
    > >
    > > Fixx had a congenital heart defect. Atkins weighed 258 pounds while supposedly following his own
    > > diet, and the heart problems were attributed to a virus. Still, he did die from a fall, so, all
    > > we can say for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet.
    >
    > Bzzzt! Wrong.
    >
    > Those reports are being pushed by PETA and pro-vegetarian doofi. What I heard was he gained over
    > 60 pounds' FLUID weight *after* his fall, due to {insert hospital-sounding stuff here}.

    Heart problems by themselves can cause severe fluid retention, too.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  6. S O R N I

    S O R N I Guest

    Kevan Smith wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:28:19 GMT, "S o r n i" <[email protected]> from RoadRunner -
    > West wrote:
    >
    >> Kevan Smith wrote:

    >>> Fixx had a congenital heart defect. Atkins weighed 258 pounds while supposedly following his own
    >>> diet, and the heart problems were attributed to a virus. Still, he did die from a fall, so, all
    >>> we can say for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet.
    >>
    >> Bzzzt! Wrong.
    >>
    >> Those reports are being pushed by PETA and pro-vegetarian doofi. What I heard was he gained over
    >> 60 pounds' FLUID weight *after* his fall, due to {insert hospital-sounding stuff here}.
    >
    > That's one side of the story. The other side says his diet caused it. I didn't take either side. I
    > presented facts with no spin.

    Your "facts" aren't factual if in fact they're incorrect. What I heard was he gained FLUID weight
    AFTER falling, so your statement that "all we can say for sure is that he was obese and following
    his own diet" is suspect at the very least. (Maybe someone knows the truth?)

    > Anyway, PETA is cool. They do a lot of good work, and I'm now very close
    to being vegan thanks to their help.

    But no "spin", huh?

    Bill "no dog in fight either way" S.
     
  7. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Per Elms├Ąter wrote:
    > Dan Cosley wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    >>>
    >>> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    >>> had serious heart trouble.
    >>
    >> And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?
    >>
    >> -- Dan
    >
    > Are you dumb or just pretending to not see his point?

    Not a very charitable comment on your part. I too had a point, which I will now make more explicit.

    1) Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. This _could_ be used to argue that his approach to
    fitness was wrong, but it turns out he had a disease that helped cause the heart attack, a
    hereditary disposition to clogged arteries. ( cite:
    http://www.magicvalley.com/weeklyfeatures/healthfitness/index.asp? StoryID=4093&PubDate=2004-2-2
    ) Using his death of a heart attack to argue against the merits of exercise is stupid.

    2) Atkins died overweight. This _could_ be used to argue that his approach to fitness was wrong, but
    it turns out that he had a condition that caused him to rapidly gain weight shortly before his
    death, complications resulting from a fall which led to a coma. ( cite:
    http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=36873&u_id=56352 ) Using his rapid comatose weight gain
    to argue against the merits of his diet is stupid.

    FWIW, I am neither pro- nor con-Atkins diet. But choosing to present a fact out of context, such as
    the "Atkins was fat" press release from the "Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM)",
    is slimy and not conducive to good reasoning, no matter what side of the issue you're on.

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email protected] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/) GroupLens Research
    Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
    of Truth ***
     
  8. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:53:44 GMT, "S o r n i" <[email protected]> from
    RoadRunner - West wrote:

    >Your "facts" aren't factual if in fact they're incorrect. What I heard was he gained FLUID weight
    >AFTER falling, so your statement that "all we can say for sure is that he was obese and following
    >his own diet" is suspect at the very least. (Maybe someone knows the truth?)

    It's in the news. Both sides of the story. I think I presented it fairly. I subscribe to the online
    WSJ, which broke the story. Others have covered it since, and now the attacks against the people who
    made the charges are taking up news space. Anyway, here's the NYT (still the national paper of
    record) version: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/11atkins.html .

    The article notes that a doctor said when the six-foot Atkins entered the hospital after his fall,
    he weighed 195 pounds. That's a BMI of 26.4 -- overweight.

    >> Anyway, PETA is cool. They do a lot of good work, and I'm now very close
    >to being vegan thanks to their help.
    >
    >But no "spin", huh?

    Nope, I don't proselytize. Eating meat is your choice, and not eating meat is my choice. I think
    it's healthier to not eat meat, or at least to cut down dramatically on meat consumption, but I
    would never force that on you.

    --
    [email protected]
    Do we need holes?
    105
     
  9. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "S o r n i" <[email protected]> writes:

    > I'll bet a lot of people would consider 6' 195 to be in the "pretty good build" category.

    I dunno. I'm 5'11", 155 lbs, and I feel gooood. Especially after having just turned 50. But then, by
    accident of genetics, I seem to have the metabolism of a hummingbird.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  10. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Kevan Smith <[email protected]> writes:

    > Anyway, much worse is shown on network television every night.

    I was shocked & horrified to discover that Janet Jackson has at least one human female breast.

    Actually, what was really disgusting, was Justin's apology. He shoulda just told everybody to
    fuggoff and get a life.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  11. S O R N I

    S O R N I Guest

    Kevan Smith wrote:
    > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:53:44 GMT, "S o r n i" <[email protected]> from RoadRunner -
    > West wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Your "facts" aren't factual if in fact they're incorrect. What I heard was he gained FLUID weight
    >> AFTER falling, so your statement that "all we can say for sure is that he was obese and following
    >> his own diet" is suspect at the very least. (Maybe someone knows the truth?)
    >
    > It's in the news. Both sides of the story. I think I presented it fairly. I subscribe to the
    > online WSJ, which broke the story. Others have covered it since, and now the attacks against the
    > people who made the charges are taking up news space. Anyway, here's the NYT (still the national
    > paper of record) version: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/11atkins.html .
    >
    > The article notes that a doctor said when the six-foot Atkins entered the hospital after his fall,
    > he weighed 195 pounds. That's a BMI of
    > 26.4 -- overweight.

    I'll bet a lot of people would consider 6' 195 to be in the "pretty good build" category.

    >>> Anyway, PETA is cool. They do a lot of good work, and I'm now very close
    >> to being vegan thanks to their help.
    >>
    >> But no "spin", huh?
    >
    > Nope, I don't proselytize. Eating meat is your choice, and not eating meat is my choice. I think
    > it's healthier to not eat meat, or at least to cut down dramatically on meat consumption, but I
    > would never force that on you.

    I was referring to the PETA component of your statement. (You know, showing gory pamphlets to kids
    and stuff.)

    Bill "bowing out now" S.
     
  12. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:12:50 GMT, "S o r n i" <[email protected]> from
    RoadRunner - West wrote:

    >I was referring to the PETA component of your statement. (You know, showing gory pamphlets to kids
    >and stuff.)

    And good thing they do. Why sugar coat the cruelty of the meat industry? Someone has to teach
    children how the meat industry treats animals.

    Anyway, much worse is shown on network television every night.

    --
    [email protected]
    Is it finished?
    62
     
  13. >>Anyway, much worse is shown on network television every night.

    >I was shocked & horrified to discover that Janet Jackson has at least one human female breast.

    Heavily modified.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
     
  14. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Eric S. Sande" <[email protected]> writes:
    >>>Anyway, much worse is shown on network television every night.
    >
    >>I was shocked & horrified to discover that Janet Jackson has at least one human female breast.
    >
    > Heavily modified.

    My next door neighbour, in his wanderings, found a novelty/joke pair of plastic breasts (like
    the ones in the Black Adder episode) in a back alley somewhere, and thought it would be funny to
    give them to me. I'm thinking of sticking them on the back of the milk crate, and adding
    reflectors to them.

    They're pert C-cups.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  15. Gabike

    Gabike Guest

    >There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and had
    >serious heart trouble.
    >

    Atkins had a heart problem caused by a viral infection, not his diet. Anyone who has heart problems
    can tell you that a dr will check your ankels for swelling because water gain is a sign of heart
    trouble. I was on his diet last year and lost 30lb in 3 months, its the only diet that I have been
    successful with. I no longer have to haul that extra weight up the hills and I can now go much
    faster then I ever could.
     
  16. Tom Keats said:

    > Tonight I'm making sawmill gravy on bannock.

    Wonderful. I didn't realize that anyone else was familiar with Sawmill Gravy any more. Another
    member of PETG (People for the Ethical Treatment of Grease).

    Alexander Gilchrist
     
  17. Top Sirloin

    Top Sirloin Guest

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:00:30 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:34:56 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley <[email protected]> from University
    >of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus wrote:
    >
    >>In article <[email protected]>, Art Harris wrote:
    >>> Cwazee Yeti wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> There's been a lot of press over the last 2-years or so about these fix-it-all diet programs
    >>>> (Atkins, South Beach, etc...) that are largely responsible for turning "carb" into a 4-letter
    >>>> word.
    >>>
    >>> There was a news item today that said Atkins weighed over 250 lbs at the time of his death and
    >>> had serious heart trouble.
    >>
    >>And Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running. Your point?
    >
    >Fixx had a congenital heart defect. Atkins weighed 258 pounds while supposedly following his own
    >diet, and the heart problems were attributed to a virus. Still, he did die from a fall, so, all we
    >can say for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-10-2004/0002106789&EDATE=

    "Trager's own release this morning reads in part: "Due to water retention ... [Atkins] had a weight
    that varied between 180 and 195. During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed,
    fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time
    of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds."

    He weighed 180 to 195 pounds while following his own diet, not 258.

    --
    Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
    top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
     
  18. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > Except, in other parts of the world, when you got up from that desk job, you'd have to walk to
    > your bus/tram/tube/train stop, perhaps stand during your ride, and then walk from the stop to your
    > home. You might stop at the store on the way, because many homes in Europe and especially Japan
    > have small refrigerators, so that walk home might be weight-resistant.
    Meanwhile,
    > the American counterpart gets in her car and drives home. She might walk
    20
    > steps in total. Claire Petersky

    Yes, some of what you say is true. BUT, it also depends upon how each country was developed. The
    U.S., with a lot of space, was organized in a spread out manner (once you get past the old port
    cities). For example, to get to the nearest store from my house, it is a distance of 4 miles. Should
    I walk there and try to carry food home? That is one reason why we have larger refrigerators ( and
    freezers too)! Also, your saying "she might walk 20 steps in total" is ridiculous on the face of it.
    How do you think people get into those offices for that desk job? You park out in the back of the
    building and walk in, that's how.

    Let's take your example at stopping at a store on the way home. Park your car in a huge lot and walk
    into the store. Find the milk and eggs on the back wall of the huge store, walk all over the store
    to find what you need to buy. 20 steps? Hah!

    I don't know why you used such a ridiculous example to make your point. You didn't make it.

    Pat in TX
     
  19. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >No, it's a different way of eating. It requires discipline and education
    and
    > >thought. You should try it. Or at least know what it is you're bashing.
    Pat
    >
    > I don't have to try it to know what it is. It's a fad diet, for sure, and
    it's
    > not a very healthy one, at that. All diets, not just low-carb, require
    some
    > discipline, education and thought.
    Kevan

    Two things:
    1. you don't know what it is you are bashing, but you go ahead and do it anyway. That is the sign of
    a person who just wants to argue--anything at all--just to argue.

    2. You keep bringing "race" into topics that do not include a mention of it. Why? Why are you
    obsessed with "race" to the point of seeing everything through that lens?

    Pat in TX
     
  20. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >Your "facts" aren't factual if in fact they're incorrect. What I heard
    was
    > >he gained FLUID weight AFTER falling, so your statement that "all we can
    say
    > >for sure is that he was obese and following his own diet" is suspect at
    the
    > >very least. (Maybe someone knows the truth?)
    >
    > It's in the news. Both sides of the story. I think I presented it fairly.
    I
    > subscribe to the online WSJ, which broke the story. Others have covered it since, and now the
    > attacks against the people who made the charges are
    taking up
    > news space. Anyway, here's the NYT (still the national paper of record)
    version:
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/11atkins.html .

    No, you didn't present it fairly. You left out the most import part of the story. Your credibility
    just took a major nose dive.

    >
    > The article notes that a doctor said when the six-foot Atkins entered the hospital after his fall,
    > he weighed 195 pounds. That's a BMI of 26.4 -- overweight.

    And we all know that someone with a higher percentage of muscle can appear to be overweight when the
    only test used is the BMI. Kevan, you disappoint me.

    >
    > >> Anyway, PETA is cool. They do a lot of good work, and I'm now very
    close
    > >to being vegan thanks to their help.
    > >
    > >But no "spin", huh?
    >
    > Nope, I don't proselytize. Eating meat is your choice, and not eating meat
    is my
    > choice. I think it's healthier to not eat meat, or at least to cut down dramatically on meat
    > consumption, but I would never force that on you.

    Well, at last the spin comes out. You think their tactics are "cool." But still you claim "no spin."
    You've bottomed out, now.

    pat in TX
     
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