Carbo confusion

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cwazee Yeti, Feb 6, 2004.

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  1. Pat

    Pat Guest

    "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:35:40 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:
    >
    > >Yes, some of what you say is true. BUT, it also depends upon how each country was developed. The
    > >U.S., with a lot of space, was organized in a spread out manner (once you get past the old port
    > >cities). For example,
    to
    > >get to the nearest store from my house, it is a distance of 4 miles.
    Should
    > >I walk there and try to carry food home? That is one reason why we have larger refrigerators (
    > >and freezers too)!
    >
    > Russia and Asia are larger than the U.S. Why aren't they as obese?

    You're kidding, right? You really think Russia is as developed as the U.S? Has the same
    infrastructure? The same standard of living? Why don't we compare similar groups of people and how
    their countries developed? Can't do it. All are different, with different governments taxing
    different things.

    Pat in TX
     


  2. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >>That wasn't the case with Atkins. He was not more muscle than fat.

    > >And you know his body fat % pre fall how?

    > His age, height and weight compared to national medians.
    Kevan

    Now, you're blowing smoke up my A**. You have NO idea how much he worked out or anything about his
    daily life--or even what his weight prior to his heart condition. You are, again, talking about
    something you know nothing about.

    Pat in TX
     
  3. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >Two things:
    > >1. you don't know what it is you are bashing, but you go ahead and do it anyway. That is the sign
    > > of a person who just wants to argue--anything
    at
    > >all--just to argue.
    >
    > I do know what it is. I've read the books, and I've studied outside
    literature,
    > too. It's still a fad diet.

    And yet you seem to think that if one man is found to be obese, a man with a heart disease, then the
    entire diet will fail? That's grasping at straws.

    > >
    > >2. You keep bringing "race" into topics that do not include a mention of
    it.
    > >Why? Why are you obsessed with "race" to the point of seeing everything through that lens?
    >
    > I don't see any race in the quotes you cited above. In terms of obesity
    figures,
    > the numbers speak for themselves: higher percentages of minorities than
    whites
    > are obese. It's only a racial issue insofar as minorities for the most
    part
    > still occupy the lower social classes in the U.S. due to the fact that
    they earn
    > less than whites. Affluent, educated white folk have the lowest obesity
    rates. I
    > cite the book "Fat Land" as a source for that.

    Kevan, you are the one who used the word "whitey". You are the one who started the whole thread
    on how Bicycling Magazine should put black people on the cover solely because it was February. I
    also seem to remember one other thread where it was a black/white issue with you. It's tiring.
    Get over it.

    pat in TX
     
  4. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > But more significantly, the average American house is nearly twice the
    size it
    > was 50 years ago, before the TV era. And instead of a couple of table
    lamps
    > with 100W bulbs, each room has six halogen cans in the ceiling, plus mood
    lights
    > around the perimeter. There's a TV blaring in every room, and an extra
    fridge
    > in the garage for soft drinks. Instead of relatively efficient radiant
    heat,
    > there's forced air, which has to fill each room from the peak of the
    cathedral
    > ceiling downward. Do we use more energy than 50 years ago? Hell yeah.
    >
    > Matt O.

    I don't know whose house you are describing, but it sure isn't mine! And it's not even the "norm", I
    would wager.

    Pat in TX
     
  5. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Pat wrote:

    > I don't know whose house you are describing, but it sure isn't mine! And it's not even the "norm",
    > I would wager.

    I thought everything was big in TX, Pat...

    Matt O.
     
  6. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:54:30 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >
    >> >
    >> >>That's one doctor's claim. Others claim different. The story has two
    >sides.
    >> >
    >> >The "others" have an agenda.
    >>
    >> And the Atkin's doctors don't have an agenda in keeping the multimillion
    >dollar
    >> fad diet in business?
    >Kevan
    >
    >
    >You've said this twice, but it still doesn't make sense. Look at the response to the story---the
    >man had a heart condition. Everybody who reads even the slanted story you put out---everybody
    >without a Vegan agenda, that is---will immediately say, "It doesn't matter what they are saying
    >about the diet itself, because the man had a heart disease." Even if he was overweight, people will
    >still say, "The basic tenets of the diet are sound." Because they are. It's not going to "go out of
    >business" because Dr. Atkins may have been overweight. You are making it sound like an either/or
    >situation, and it is not that way.

    No, you're workijng yourself up into a tizzy over this. You pointed out that one side of the story
    has "an agenda" as you put it. I pointed out that the other side does, too. There are other
    disinterested parties, I'm sure, but they weren't mentioned in the news article. The fad diet works
    because it is a diet -- conrolling the intake of calories and boosting the expenditure. The whole
    "avoid carbohydrates" thing is a smokescreen. As a regimen, Atkins advocates eating foods we know
    have long term health risks -- foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can trust that fad
    diet if you want, but I'm not.

    --
    [email protected]
    Courage!
    89
     
  7. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:58:26 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >Kevan, you are the one who used the word "whitey". You are the one who started the whole thread
    >on how Bicycling Magazine should put black people on the cover solely because it was February. I
    >also seem to remember one other thread where it was a black/white issue with you. It's tiring.
    >Get over it.

    I use whitey as an effetionate nickname. I didn't say that bout Bicycling magazine; I said something
    else. Blacks are still oppressed minorities, and I'm not going to hide behind the silence society
    uses to cover that up.

    --
    [email protected]
    Imagine a caterpillar moving.
    31
     
  8. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:49:52 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >
    >> >>That wasn't the case with Atkins. He was not more muscle than fat.
    >
    >> >And you know his body fat % pre fall how?
    >
    >
    >> His age, height and weight compared to national medians.
    >Kevan
    >
    >Now, you're blowing smoke up my A**. You have NO idea how much he worked out or anything about his
    >daily life--or even what his weight prior to his heart condition. You are, again, talking about
    >something you know nothing about.

    The article said he weighed 195 when he was admitted to the hospital, didn't it?

    Anyway, last I looked, this was still usenet.

    --
    [email protected]
    Not building a wall but making a brick.
    54
     
  9. Kevan Smith wrote:
    > carbohydrates" thing is a smokescreen. As a regimen, Atkins advocates eating foods we know have
    > long term health risks -- foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can trust that fad diet
    > if you want, but I'm not.

    Hey those things are bad for your heart. Who was it I heard died of a heart failure??

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  10. Dave

    Dave Guest

    Per Elmsäter wrote:
    > Kevan Smith wrote:
    >
    >>carbohydrates" thing is a smokescreen. As a regimen, Atkins advocates eating foods we know have
    >>long term health risks -- foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can trust that fad diet
    >>if you want, but I'm not.
    >
    >
    > Hey those things are bad for your heart. Who was it I heard died of a heart failure??

    Dr. Atkins died of complications from a fall. Try this link for some info surrounding his medical
    report and the motives involved in its release.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200402%5CNAT20040212b.html

    I am _not_ an Atkins advocate nor do I play one on TV. My motto for losing weight: Do more miles!

    -=Dave=-
     
  11. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:45:49 -0500, Dave <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >Per Elmsäter wrote:
    >> Kevan Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>>carbohydrates" thing is a smokescreen. As a regimen, Atkins advocates eating foods we know have
    >>>long term health risks -- foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can trust that fad
    >>>diet if you want, but I'm not.
    >>
    >>
    >> Hey those things are bad for your heart. Who was it I heard died of a heart failure??
    >
    >Dr. Atkins died of complications from a fall. Try this link for some info surrounding his medical
    > report and the motives involved in its release.
    >
    >http://www.cnsnews.com/

    This is a right wing hack "news" site. It's part of the so-called Media Research Center, which bills
    itself as "The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias."

    I think the NYT stories are more balanced. However, you need a free "subscription" to view them.

    --
    [email protected]
    Breathe more deeply.
    28
     
  12. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >Kevan, you are the one who used the word "whitey". You are the one who started the whole thread
    > >on how Bicycling Magazine should put black
    people
    > >on the cover solely because it was February. I also seem to remember one other thread where it
    > >was a black/white issue with you. It's tiring.
    Get
    > >over it.
    >
    > I use whitey as an effetionate nickname. I didn't say that bout Bicycling magazine; I said
    > something else. Blacks are still oppressed minorities,
    and I'm
    > not going to hide behind the silence society uses to cover that up.

    I don't know what "effetionate" means, but "whitey" is a racist word used the way you did and you
    know it. And now you are backing off from that whole, long, tiring thread about how Bicycling
    magazine should have a black cyclist on the cover last year? You wore that topic out and it wasn't
    much to begin with! And as for Atkins, have a look at this:
    http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/#a0000885084 So much for Dr. Atkins being "fat" and
    "obese' etc.

    Pat in TX
     
  13. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >
    > >> >>That wasn't the case with Atkins. He was not more muscle than fat.
    > >
    > >> >And you know his body fat % pre fall how?
    > >
    > >
    > >> His age, height and weight compared to national medians.
    > >Kevan
    > >
    > >Now, you're blowing smoke up my A**. You have NO idea how much he worked out or anything about
    > >his daily life--or even what his weight prior to
    his
    > >heart condition. You are, again, talking about something you know
    nothing
    > >about.
    >
    > The article said he weighed 195 when he was admitted to the hospital,
    didn't it?
    >
    > Anyway, last I looked, this was still usenet.

    So, that means what, exactly? That you can go on and on about something about which you know squat
    without anybody calling you on it? Have a look at this:
    http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/#a0000885084

    Pat in TX
     
  14. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > Pat wrote:
    >
    > > I don't know whose house you are describing, but it sure isn't mine! And it's not even the
    > > "norm", I would wager.

    > I thought everything was big in TX, Pat...
    >
    > Matt O.

    Well, the outdoors surely is.

    Pat in TX
     
  15. Pat

    Pat Guest

    > >> Kevan Smith wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>carbohydrates" thing is a smokescreen. As a regimen, Atkins advocates eating foods we know have
    > >>>long term health risks -- foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can trust that fad
    > >>>diet if you want, but I'm not.

    Other doctors are coming around and seeing benefits in it, though.

    > >> Hey those things are bad for your heart. Who was it I heard died of a
    heart
    > >> failure??

    Jim Fixx, the runner, for one.

    > >
    > >Dr. Atkins died of complications from a fall. Try this link for some info surrounding his medical
    > > report and the motives involved in its release.
    > >
    > >http://www.cnsnews.com/
    >
    > This is a right wing hack "news" site. It's part of the so-called Media
    Research
    > Center, which bills itself as "The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal
    > Media Bias."
    >
    > I think the NYT stories are more balanced. However, you need a free "subscription" to view them.

    Try this: http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/#a0000885084

    Pat
     
  16. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:46:58 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >I don't know what "effetionate" means, but "whitey" is a racist word used the way you did and
    >you know it.

    I meant affectionate. Typo.

    Whitey is a racial word, but not a racist word. I like Gil Scott Heron's song "Whitey on the Moon."
    Have you heard it?

    >And now you are backing off from that whole, long, tiring thread about how Bicycling magazine
    >should have a black cyclist on the cover last year? You wore that topic out and it wasn't much to
    >begin with!

    Sorry, I never said Bicycling should have a black cyclist on the cover. I said only that Bicycling
    should include more black cyclists. IIRC, I noted that in the February, Black History Month, issue,
    the only blacks they had in the magazine were in ads.

    >And as for Atkins, have a look at this: http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/#a0000885084

    Why would I trust that? Atkins is big business, and that group is out to promote big business.
    Anyway, the thing already made a mistake with it's first sentence: "It's hard to believe Robert
    Atkins weighed 258 pounds when he died last April, as the Wall Street Journal contended Tuesday." It
    wasn't the WSJ that contended that. I subscribe to the online WSJ, and here is what the original
    article stated: "The document, a report of external examination from the chief medical examiner's
    office in New York, also says that at his death Dr. Atkins weighed 258 pounds." Looks to me like
    that's the state of New York making the claim through it's coroner.

    Here's the sentence in context:

    A medical examiner's report on the death of diet guru Dr. Robert Atkins suggests that he had a
    history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension.

    The document, a report of external examination from the chief medical examiner's office in New York,
    also says that at his death Dr. Atkins weighed 258 pounds.
    Dr. Atkins died in April last year at age 72 of a head injury from a fall on ice while walking to
    work. The report attributes the death to a "blunt impact injury of head."

    If you subscribe, the article is here:

    http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB107637899384525268,00.html

    Atkin's personal physician claims the man weighed 195 when he was admitted to the hospital on
    April 9. Atkins died eight days later, weighing 63 pounds more, according to the medical
    examiner's report.

    From another WSJ article:

    Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council, attributed the additional 63 pounds to a
    build-up of fluids in Dr. Atkins's body during efforts to treat and revive him after the fall. Dr.
    Atkins was in a coma from his admission on April 9 until his death on April 17, 2003.

    "This was to keep him alive," Dr. Trager said. "That is clearly where this extra weight came from."

    http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB107663028683428941,00.html

    Sixty-three pounds in 8 days while in a coma? I suppose that's possible, but it seems like a lot to
    gain in so short a time.

    --
    [email protected]
    Ghost echoes.
    80
     
  17. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

  18. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:51:18 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> from wrote:

    >Other doctors are coming around and seeing benefits in it, though.

    Are they ignoring all the research about saturated fats and cholesterol?

    Atkins and other low-carb diets are often prescribed to treat hypoglycemia, and they have
    benefit for that.

    Losing weight is a separate issue from hypoglycemia. Is it worth the risk of coronary heart disease,
    clogged arteries and other health problems associated with fats and cholesterol just for a few
    pounds? And, if you need to lose serious weight, then you should forego the fad diet books and go to
    a nutritionist who can completely reeducate you on how to eat a healthy diet and change your
    behavior with food and eating.

    >Try this: http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/#a0000885084

    I addressed that in another post.

    --
    [email protected]
    Use an unacceptable color.
    49
     
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