Carbon frame "life expectancy"



Hypnospin said:
i have read a fantastic theory ...
Now, damn it hypnospin, since you won't reply to my query in the 'steel is real' post in the cycling cafe, maybe I can get your attention here. So, after going on and on about the Wilier's ride, how 'bout describing that c40? (Or is it still collecting dust? Let's hope not.) Buttery, cuts through the air, like floating on a cloud hitched to a frieght train... yes? no?
 
My least favorite material??? Titanium by far. I can flex a titanium bike like a wet noodle. If you are big or strong, or big and strong, titanium will provide a ride that is probably way too soft.
That's nonsense.
 
prestonjb said:
I replaced the fork at 12,000 miles "just because" no one could tell me how long a carbon fork should last.
Zinn says a CF for has an unlimited life unless damaged. Why woud it be otherwise?
 
prestonjb said:
There is a lot of good info here and there is quite a deal of bias...





Later I read that either Rynolds, Easton or Look run tests that simulates like 14,000 miles so I guess that could be a resonable limit... Though I think it is actually longer... Probably the same as the trek frame of 24,000 miles.
Did you mean BS? That Trek frame life nonsense is BS.
 
J-MAT said:
Anyone who knows anything about frame materials, knows that titanium is by far the softest, most flexible material you can make a frame from.
That's nonsense.
 
prestonjb said:
.. Seems when I had the cream-cheese in my ears ....

Anyway to move on... Different materials for different jobs...

Examples:
Steel... Good cheap bikes... Commuter bikes... Touring bikes
Al... Good cheap bikes and can handle moisture better... But has a fixed cycle life.... Also has a harsher ride than steel... Commuter bikes.. Often used for ATBs.
Ti... Like steel for the ride, impervious to rusting or cycle failure <like steel> Good for high end bikes (because it is $$)
Carbon... Same as Ti but can be special molded into wierd forms to which could produce better ride... Requires special care with greases... Also contact areas must be metal so there are some glue-point issues.
Where do you dredge up this drivel. At least I can buy the cream cheeze for brains part.
 
This thread is just begging for an IronDonut anti-carbon fiber attack.

Before it goes to hell in a handbasket, I'll add that I've had great service out of both my road and mtn bikes, both OCLV, the former's a 93 and the latter's a 97.
 
cpalomo said:
I like the Carbon frames but have heard information that the Carbon material is more likely to suffer "weakening" and " stress fatigue" and it would not be unusual to only get 5 years of use out of a Carbon frame. I welcome all opinions...personal experience or not.
That's nonsense. Also beware of opinions.Most are just uninformed BS as this thread proves. Trek offers a lifetime warranty against defects and materials and workmanship.Cf does not fatigue. It will last longer than you want to ride it if not damaged. End of no BS short story.
 
i rode aluminum for a season or two, cut through the privates like butter, like clattering on an ox cart hitched to a city bus...

RC2 said:
Now, damn it hypnospin, since you won't reply to my query in the 'steel is real' post in the cycling cafe, maybe I can get your attention here. So, ... yes? no?
 
Great post...very amusing....

Below are a couple of exerpts from my Six13 Manual...
I hasten to add that if I fail to follow their instructions the consequences could be, and I quote "SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH"...the Folks at Cannondale are pretty hard on their Customers it seems...I'm hoping that if I maybe insert the seat post 1mm further than the max 200 mm they specify I'd get off with a lighter sentence...maybe Life without Parole??

Anyway, here's part of what they have to say...

• Protect your Six13 from temperature extremes when storing or transporting it.
• Allow your Six13 to cool off or warm up before you ride
• Do not store your Six13 in places where the temperatures will rise above 66.5C° (150°F). For example, do not leave your Six13 lying flat in a black pickup truck bed in the desert sun, 0r, under the glass of a hatchback auto.

I have a really good pdf file if anyone would like it please pm me...

Mind you, with Tax and all the acoutrements I've put on this bike it's up to almost $7000 I'm almost scared to ride it...People always laugh when I ride around with Bubble Wrap around the Frame...but I don't care!!! Plus, they always wonder what the Cattle prod is for...it's for preventing Peeps from riding too close...Plus, my wife is very annoyed at having to sleep on the Sofa while my Six13 takes her side of the Bed...

Cheers then!!


prestonjb said:
First, because I know someone is waiting with baited breath, I will retract my 24,000 mile statement.. Remeber I said I would check on that... We I musta been mixing half-and-half in the coffee at the local bagel shoppe <in my bike shorts which is a no-no... Oh wait that is another thread... Seems when I had the cream-cheese in my ears I converted the conversation from 24,000 miles left on the frame from... I'm about to go a distance approaching the circumference of the earh on my carbon bike...

Ah well...

As for the way this thread is going I see someone (same someone) showing an extreme partiality to carbon...

But at the same time while it is stated that carbon never fails they point out that another weakness of carbon, other than someone's bad design, is that where there is metal on metal you can experience a different type of failure... The cited example is the BB shell coming un-glued from the frame...

OK then let me add to that... What about drop outs? Hmmm... What about seat-post binder bolt contact areas? Hmmm...

And to make matters worse, this person has an adverse reaction to aluminum <but then so do I> to which we find that most of these pieces that are glued or run through the inside like a skeleton... Well these pieces are Aluminium so they are also going to cause the frame to fail... Sure it's not the carbon that fails but I think if a for drop out of aluminium cracks off and the front wheel pops out then you may find yourself picking up pieces of your carbon frame <after you pick up the pieces of yourself>...

Anyway to move on... Different materials for different jobs...

Examples:
Steel... Good cheap bikes... Commuter bikes... Touring bikes
Al... Good cheap bikes and can handle moisture better... But has a fixed cycle life.... Also has a harsher ride than steel... Commuter bikes.. Often used for ATBs.
Ti... Like steel for the ride, impervious to rusting or cycle failure <like steel> Good for high end bikes (because it is $$)
Carbon... Same as Ti but can be special molded into wierd forms to which could produce better ride... Requires special care with greases... Also contact areas must be metal so there are some glue-point issues.

Now let's take a different look...

Carbon Fading in sunlight...

1) My commuter bike is a cheap mountain bike made of Al because I don't care...

I live in South Florida where we get tons of sunlight. Saddles left out in the sun while I'm inside at work will fade and rot in no time. I use a garbage bag to cover the saddle and sack to make them last longer. The paint on the frame is faded on one side (the side that faces the sun) and the tires tend to rot off <on one side, you guessed it the side the sun is on>... Same for brake cables... The housings either rot away or rust from inside out <don't forget it rains in Fla and rains HARD>. Baking water into the frame <steel bikes have fun with this!>...

Now I know most of us don't leave our $3000 carbon and Ti bikes out on a bike rack 5 days a week in front of the office in the baking sun... It just aint right and it just aint smart...

Of course that is only if you scratch into the fibers as the epoxy could be UV resistive <but resistive indicates a lifetime>. This came from a check of the use of carbon fiber in, not aerospace, but aero-planes... "Sunlight can damage glass and carbon fiber cloth and resins used in composite-construction airplanes." So if you left your bike outside instead of inside the hanger for countless weeks/months on the tarmac of a shadless runway... Well... You get the idea...

Also I know someone with a Klein ATB... On the maiden voyage he spilled and dinged the frame on a rock. Yep it looks like someone took an oversized metal punch and knocked a dimple into the frame... No sever damage. paint is even intact. Assume there is some reduce in the life of the Al but not enough to toss the frame...

Nuf is Nuf. I will use steel and Al for frames where this makes sense, Ti is my choice because I like the feel of my Litespeed frame. My #1 riding buddy loves his Trek 5500 and I'm not knocking him for it... High end frames are exotic and so you can do or buy what you want... Be positive and friendly and remember that most of what we say here is talk and therefore laced with opinions...

Time to move on and ride those frames... None of them last for a lifetime... Well esp if you keep them indoors and keep typing...

Going to go take some more life off of my bike <and add some to my life!>...

See ya!
 
richard schwinn, runs an outfit called waterford, routinely gets these steel columbus sl/sp bikes back for refurb called paramounts. he states some have been rode 'n raced 'round for a couple generations. he refurbs and sends 'em back and they do stay seem to be in one piece even with all the tons 'o stress.

there is more to a bike than the material, some marques are not just names on a bike...






J-MAT said:
cpalomo:


Eventually, all metal frames will fail if used long enough due to the finite life cycle all metals have. Your old Pinarello has tons of cumulative stress worked into the metal. Time for a replacement for sure.

even more. Enjoy your new bike!!!
 
Jaguar27 said:
Great post...very amusing....

Below are a couple of exerpts from my Six13 Manual...
I hasten to add that if I fail to follow their instructions the consequences could be, and I quote "SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH"...the Folks at Cannondale are pretty hard on their Customers it seems...I'm hoping that if I maybe insert the seat post 1mm further than the max 200 mm they specify I'd get off with a lighter sentence...maybe Life without Parole??

Anyway, here's part of what they have to say...

• Protect your Six13 from temperature extremes when storing or transporting it.
• Allow your Six13 to cool off or warm up before you ride
• Do not store your Six13 in places where the temperatures will rise above 66.5C° (150°F). For example, do not leave your Six13 lying flat in a black pickup truck bed in the desert sun, 0r, under the glass of a hatchback auto.

I have a really good pdf file if anyone would like it please pm me...

Mind you, with Tax and all the acoutrements I've put on this bike it's up to almost $7000 I'm almost scared to ride it...People always laugh when I ride around with Bubble Wrap around the Frame...but I don't care!!! Plus, they always wonder what the Cattle prod is for...it's for preventing Peeps from riding too close...Plus, my wife is very annoyed at having to sleep on the Sofa while my Six13 takes her side of the Bed...

Cheers then!!
High temps and UV degrade all kinds of plastic, so the 150*F storage limit isn't surprising. I know from experience that 150*F isn't very good for tires and tubes either, even when they are on steel bikes.

Did you also read the warranty policy section which clearly states that the warranty does not mean to imply the bicycle will last forever? It goes on to clearly state that fatigue failures resulting from normal use are not warranted. I like that Cannondale is up front about the fatigue issue and wish the other majors and LBS would be also.

How long will an AL C'dale last when ridden by club/recreational or long-distance riders? I know a randonneur who must have at least 100,000 miles on a CAAD frame from the early 90's. He rode the bike in the 03 PBP rather than his steel touring bike.
 
I can't even think of an instance where my Bike would be subjected to 150f temps...

By the way, I was reading an article written by a Guy who rides too and from work in Palm Springs...he was saying that when he comes to a Red light on really really hot Days he hops off his Bike and holds it off the ground, otherwise his Tires Burst...

You're right, Cannondale are very honest when it comes to their warranties, I don't know how long I would expect my Six13 to last, I only ride 3000 miles a year (It sounds quite a bit but compared to others it's nothing)...and I've never kept a Bike longer than a year so far....so I think I should be OK...plus it's stored in a spare Bedroom, so it never see's any UV except when I'm riding it...and I'm only a recreational Rider....so I don't have any fears that the Bike won't last....

dhk said:
High temps and UV degrade all kinds of plastic, so the 150*F storage limit isn't surprising. I know from experience that 150*F isn't very good for tires and tubes either, even when they are on steel bikes.

Did you also read the warranty policy section which clearly states that the warranty does not mean to imply the bicycle will last forever? It goes on to clearly state that fatigue failures resulting from normal use are not warranted. I like that Cannondale is up front about the fatigue issue and wish the other majors and LBS would be also.

How long will an AL C'dale last when ridden by club/recreational or long-distance riders? I know a randonneur who must have at least 100,000 miles on a CAAD frame from the early 90's. He rode the bike in the 03 PBP rather than his steel touring bike.
 
Bet the surface temp of a dark CF frame tube sitting in the desert sun could hit 150*F, not to mention temp inside the trunk of a dark car.

Didn't mean to imply you have anything to worry about concerning your Six13 fatigue life. For us recreational types at 3-5K miles a year, believe most frames are going to last a lot longer than we'll be riding them.

Hope you ride your Six13 for a long time. I like to see expensive bikes used, not sitting as showpieces. If a sub-1500 gram frame eventually breaks after many thousands of miles, that's fine with me as well.
 
dhk said:
Bet the surface temp of a dark CF frame tube sitting in the desert sun could hit 150*F, not to mention temp inside the trunk of a dark car.

Didn't mean to imply you have anything to worry about concerning your Six13 fatigue life. For us recreational types at 3-5K miles a year, believe most frames are going to last a lot longer than we'll be riding them.

Hope you ride your Six13 for a long time. I like to see expensive bikes used, not sitting as showpieces. If a sub-1500 gram frame eventually breaks after many thousands of miles, that's fine with me as well.
What he said. And if you 'wear out' the 613 please post back, you'll be a tough guy hero for running the first known 613 into the ground. Enjoy it!
 
Man, this thread has been around for a while. I responded to it two years ago...

In the intervening two years, my opinion of CF frames hasn't changed a bit. My Foil is still going strong, still screaming on the downhills. Most of my numb hands problems from the rough ride were solved by going to milder riding wheels (Campy Zonda), and lucking into a used set of Cinelli RAM bars.

Last year, I restored a 1970's vintage Falcon San Remo racer, steel Reynolds 531 butted frame, Campy NR group. The ride is silky smooth, but not at all flexy. The 1970's British frame builders were among the very best.

Al life? My wife and I ride a 1991 Cannondale tandem on occasion, no sign of fatigue there. It's actually a very smooth riding bike, probably from the 40 spoke/4 cross tandem wheels. Frame materials contribute to ride quality, but so does frame design, and wheels, and handebars.
 
Jaguar27 said:
Great post...very amusing....

Below are a couple of exerpts from my Six13 Manual...
I hasten to add that if I fail to follow their instructions the consequences could be, and I quote "SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH"...the Folks at Cannondale are pretty hard on their Customers it seems...I'm hoping that if I maybe insert the seat post 1mm further than the max 200 mm they specify I'd get off with a lighter sentence...maybe Life without Parole??

Anyway, here's part of what they have to say...

• Protect your Six13 from temperature extremes when storing or transporting it.
• Allow your Six13 to cool off or warm up before you ride
• Do not store your Six13 in places where the temperatures will rise above 66.5C° (150°F). For example, do not leave your Six13 lying flat in a black pickup truck bed in the desert sun, 0r, under the glass of a hatchback auto...
Sounds like you need to slather your Cannondale in SPF 40 before you take it out for a ride!