carbon frame?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by wanguard, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. wanguard

    wanguard Guest

    Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
    ....?

    I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
    can snap like a twig?

    I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
    frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
    wrong?

    D'amir



    --
     
    Tags:


  2. My riding buddy has a "Fastrax DH" that he got new off eBay for $850.
    It's a carbon full suspension that looks a little like the old K2
    Animal/Beast, with a 12" coil shock that he is never going to find a
    replacement for. I think it was some kind of limited-run or prototype,
    because I have never seen another one. It doesn't even show up on
    google. Here's a picture:
    http://www.davewilson.cc/Bike/Pics/DSCN1474.JPG


    The bike is a little heavier than my aluminum Fuel, although his
    components are heavy. It's got a thick red gel coat over the carbon.
    The gel coat has some deep gouges in it, down to the carbon, but no
    problems yet. He's given it nothing but abuse, and the frame has held
    up fine over the last two years. He has had to replace the fork, BB,
    wheels and seat, though. I keep finding him these light, modern
    aluminum frames on eBay, but he's got this fixation on carbon.

    When he got it, it had big "DH" stickers on it, as well as a little
    sticker that said "not to be used for Downhill".

    Dave
    www.davewilson.cc/Bike

    wanguard wrote:
    > Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
    > ...?
    >
    > I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
    > can snap like a twig?
    >
    > I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
    > frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
    > wrong?
    >
    > D'amir
    >
    >
    >
    > --
     
  3. Ride-A-Lot

    Ride-A-Lot Guest


    >
    > wanguard wrote:
    >
    >>Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
    >>...?
    >>
    >>I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
    >>can snap like a twig?
    >>
    >>I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
    >>frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
    >>wrong?
    >>
    >>D'amir
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>--

    >
    >

    [email protected] wrote:
    > My riding buddy has a "Fastrax DH" that he got new off eBay for $850.
    > It's a carbon full suspension that looks a little like the old K2
    > Animal/Beast, with a 12" coil shock that he is never going to find a
    > replacement for. I think it was some kind of limited-run or prototype,
    > because I have never seen another one. It doesn't even show up on
    > google. Here's a picture:
    > http://www.davewilson.cc/Bike/Pics/DSCN1474.JPG
    >
    >
    > The bike is a little heavier than my aluminum Fuel, although his
    > components are heavy. It's got a thick red gel coat over the carbon.
    > The gel coat has some deep gouges in it, down to the carbon, but no
    > problems yet. He's given it nothing but abuse, and the frame has held
    > up fine over the last two years. He has had to replace the fork, BB,
    > wheels and seat, though. I keep finding him these light, modern
    > aluminum frames on eBay, but he's got this fixation on carbon.
    >
    > When he got it, it had big "DH" stickers on it, as well as a little
    > sticker that said "not to be used for Downhill".
    >
    > Dave
    > www.davewilson.cc/Bike


    I moved your post down for easier reading.

    Now... If that's a DH bike then there is something seriously wrong with
    the setup. Correct me if I am wrong, but the angle should be a lot more
    slack than that. Also, 12" back but what looks like an 80mm fork in the
    front. That would probably account for the lack of an angle, but would
    more than likely send him OTB more times than I would like to imagine.
    Carbon DH bike just sounds all wrong.

    If he's that obsessed with carbon, he should go work ina coal mine.
    That'll cure him.

    --
    o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
    www.schnauzers.ws
     
  4. BB

    BB Guest

    On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:48:25 +0200, wanguard wrote:
    >
    > Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
    > ...?
    >
    > I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
    > can snap like a twig?


    That's a popular notion among riders who've never owned a CF bike. I've
    been riding a Trek OCLV frame since 1999. It has been crashed many times
    over the years, and its in great shape (if only I had held up so well!).
    Its a really nice ride, actually.

    A bike shop website used to have a writeup of their tour of the Trek US
    factory some years ago (unfortunately, they took it off about a year ago).
    During the tour, they asked about the durability of CF frames. The Trek
    guy gave him a section of frame and a sledgehammer, and challenged him to
    break it. He couldn't.

    Of course, these are the solid OCLV frames. The hollow-body CF frames
    featured on some full-susser models have a thin CF shell, and I've heard
    of those getting punctured by a rock.

    --
    -BB-
    To e-mail me, unmunge my address
     
  5. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    wanguard wrote:
    > Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
    > ...?
    >
    > I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
    > can snap like a twig?
    >
    > I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
    > frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
    > wrong?


    I abused a Trek 8500 with three main tubes of CF for a decade. Lots of
    nicks and dings into the fibers. I broke the original, but that was the
    aluminum BB shell. CF doesn't have as much of a problem as metals do
    with cracks propogating from stress risers (nicks corners etc.). The
    fibers tend to spread the force out such that it is below the force
    needed to break the frame (or what ever). My old glider had CF wings
    with plenty of little nicks. It could fly around at 150 mph in rough
    air, no prob. Wasn't until one of my partners landed it in a lake that
    it broke :-(

    Shawn
     
  6. wanguard

    wanguard Guest

    "Shawn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > wanguard wrote:
    >> Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad
    >> or ...?
    >>
    >> I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and
    >> it can snap like a twig?
    >>
    >> I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of
    >> carbon frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se
    >> that? Am I wrong?

    >
    > I abused a Trek 8500 with three main tubes of CF for a decade. Lots of
    > nicks and dings into the fibers. I broke the original, but that was the
    > aluminum BB shell. CF doesn't have as much of a problem as metals do with
    > cracks propogating from stress risers (nicks corners etc.). The fibers
    > tend to spread the force out such that it is below the force needed to
    > break the frame (or what ever). My old glider had CF wings with plenty of
    > little nicks. It could fly around at 150 mph in rough air, no prob.
    > Wasn't until one of my partners landed it in a lake that it broke :-(
    >
    > Shawn


    Thanks all for posts.
    So you all say no problems what so ever. So it looks like I should start to
    save some money for an Epic upgrade.

    D'
     
  7. No, it's a XC bike. I just thought it was funny that it had the "DH"
    sticker on it as well as the "no downhill" warning sticker. The 12"
    shock is actually 12" eye-to-eye; the travel is probably 3-4 inches. I
    haven't been able to find a replacement shock for him anywhere. I
    think that's a 100mm fork. If I remember right it is a Manitou Skarab
    that I found for him on eBay.

    Since that picture was taken he's added a setback seatpost to make the
    bike fit him a little better. Now all you have to do is think about
    moving your weight back, and the front wheel floats up in the air.
    There's no climbs in south Florida, so it works fine for getting over
    logs.

    It's got Armor hydraulic disc brakes, which I have never seen anywhere
    else. I did find a manual on an Australian web site. Nobody in the US
    appears to stock replacement brake pads, and his are getting thin.
    He'll probably have to replace the whole brake setup, but he says he
    wants some wavy rotors anyway.

    Dave Wilson
    www.davewilson.cc/Bike
     
  8. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    wanguard wrote:
    > "Shawn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>wanguard wrote:
    >>
    >>>Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad
    >>>or ...?
    >>>
    >>>I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and
    >>>it can snap like a twig?
    >>>
    >>>I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of
    >>>carbon frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se
    >>>that? Am I wrong?

    >>
    >>I abused a Trek 8500 with three main tubes of CF for a decade. Lots of
    >>nicks and dings into the fibers. I broke the original, but that was the
    >>aluminum BB shell. CF doesn't have as much of a problem as metals do with
    >>cracks propogating from stress risers (nicks corners etc.). The fibers
    >>tend to spread the force out such that it is below the force needed to
    >>break the frame (or what ever). My old glider had CF wings with plenty of
    >>little nicks. It could fly around at 150 mph in rough air, no prob.
    >>Wasn't until one of my partners landed it in a lake that it broke :-(
    >>
    >>Shawn

    >
    >
    > Thanks all for posts.
    > So you all say no problems what so ever. So it looks like I should start to
    > save some money for an Epic upgrade.


    I didn't say "No Problems", we're talking mountain bike frames here.
    Any execution, using any material, will have a weakest point. However,
    good engineering with CF produces frames of comparable performance to
    (and lighter than) Al, Ti, or Fe. Don't expect similar performance for
    similar money. Aluminum and steel are cheap.
    FWIW Trek and Giant have been working with composites for a while now
    and should be pretty good at it.

    Shawn
     
  9. JD

    JD Guest

    Shawn wrote:
    > Aluminum and steel are cheap.



    Cheap aluminium and cheap steel are cheap. When you start talking
    about triple-butted aluminium tubestes on a frame, then you are not
    talking cheap for a quality set. Also, good steel like Columbus Foco
    is not exactly cheap. In fact, it's more expensive than cheap
    titanium.

    JD
     
  10. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    JD wrote:
    > Shawn wrote:
    >
    >>Aluminum and steel are cheap.

    >
    >
    >
    > Cheap aluminium and cheap steel are cheap. When you start talking
    > about triple-butted aluminium tubestes on a frame, then you are not
    > talking cheap for a quality set. Also, good steel like Columbus Foco
    > is not exactly cheap. In fact, it's more expensive than cheap
    > titanium.
    >
    > JD


    Sure. All comes down to the labor/effort put into it. Carbon fiber
    frames are really just coal and glue in an interesting shape after all.

    Shawn
     
  11. Coyoteboy

    Coyoteboy Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > My riding buddy has a "Fastrax DH" that he got new off eBay for $850.
    > It's a carbon full suspension that looks a little like the old K2


    Thats basically identical to my Coyote F2 - same swingarm (carbon)
    thats chipped and smashed to hell but hasnt ever given up even under
    abuse - only mine has an alu main frame. Unless you damage the fibres
    or spot delamination from over-twisting the material you have no issues
    - they are usually covered with a decent layer of epoxy anyway - I'd
    run a carbon frame for sure - can only be lighter than mine at 44lbs
    lol.

    J
     
  12. wanguard

    wanguard Guest

    > I didn't say "No Problems", we're talking mountain bike frames here. Any
    > execution, using any material, will have a weakest point. However, good
    > engineering with CF produces frames of comparable performance to (and
    > lighter than) Al, Ti, or Fe. Don't expect similar performance for similar
    > money. Aluminum and steel are cheap.


    Well if complete '05 Epic S-works is $5500 and frame is $2000, and expected
    price for '06 S-W carbon version is $7000, which will put frame at $3500, is
    all but not cheap.

    > FWIW Trek and Giant have been working with composites for a while now and
    > should be pretty good at it.
    >
    > Shawn


    I gor the carbon fobia from my Easton handlebar. Feeling I liked, but
    everything else is so unfriendly. Steam, levers and god forbid barends. The
    problem is not a sleadhammer contact, but rather sharp stones, little ones
    that are blasted under the tires under big downhill speeds and ones caught
    buy tire and squeezed between frame and tire. Or space between frame and
    chainrings in case of chainsuck.

    D'amir
     
  13. Coyoteboy

    Coyoteboy Guest

    yack, yer right there
    Slack wrote:

    > [email protected] wrote:
    > They're ugly as sin and primitive looking
    > --
    > Slack
     
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