carbon frame?

[wanguard]

Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
....?

I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
can snap like a twig?

I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
wrong?

D'amir



--

 

[[email protected]]

My riding buddy has a "Fastrax DH" that he got new off eBay for $850.
It's a carbon full suspension that looks a little like the old K2
Animal/Beast, with a 12" coil shock that he is never going to find a
replacement for. I think it was some kind of limited-run or prototype,
because I have never seen another one. It doesn't even show up on
google. Here's a picture:
http://www.davewilson.cc/Bike/Pics/DSCN1474.JPG


The bike is a little heavier than my aluminum Fuel, although his
components are heavy. It's got a thick red gel coat over the carbon.
The gel coat has some deep gouges in it, down to the carbon, but no
problems yet. He's given it nothing but abuse, and the frame has held
up fine over the last two years. He has had to replace the fork, BB,
wheels and seat, though. I keep finding him these light, modern
aluminum frames on eBay, but he's got this fixation on carbon.

When he got it, it had big "DH" stickers on it, as well as a little
sticker that said "not to be used for Downhill".

Dave
www.davewilson.cc/Bike

wanguard wrote:
> Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
> ...?
>
> I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
> can snap like a twig?
>
> I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
> frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
> wrong?
>
> D'amir
>
>
>
> --

 

[Ride-A-Lot]

>
> wanguard wrote:
>
>>Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
>>...?
>>
>>I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
>>can snap like a twig?
>>
>>I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
>>frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
>>wrong?
>>
>>D'amir
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
> My riding buddy has a "Fastrax DH" that he got new off eBay for $850.
> It's a carbon full suspension that looks a little like the old K2
> Animal/Beast, with a 12" coil shock that he is never going to find a
> replacement for. I think it was some kind of limited-run or prototype,
> because I have never seen another one. It doesn't even show up on
> google. Here's a picture:
> http://www.davewilson.cc/Bike/Pics/DSCN1474.JPG
>
>
> The bike is a little heavier than my aluminum Fuel, although his
> components are heavy. It's got a thick red gel coat over the carbon.
> The gel coat has some deep gouges in it, down to the carbon, but no
> problems yet. He's given it nothing but abuse, and the frame has held
> up fine over the last two years. He has had to replace the fork, BB,
> wheels and seat, though. I keep finding him these light, modern
> aluminum frames on eBay, but he's got this fixation on carbon.
>
> When he got it, it had big "DH" stickers on it, as well as a little
> sticker that said "not to be used for Downhill".
>
> Dave
> www.davewilson.cc/Bike

I moved your post down for easier reading.

Now... If that's a DH bike then there is something seriously wrong with
the setup. Correct me if I am wrong, but the angle should be a lot more
slack than that. Also, 12" back but what looks like an 80mm fork in the
front. That would probably account for the lack of an angle, but would
more than likely send him OTB more times than I would like to imagine.
Carbon DH bike just sounds all wrong.

If he's that obsessed with carbon, he should go work ina coal mine.
That'll cure him.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

 

[BB]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:48:25 +0200, wanguard wrote:
>
> Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
> ...?
>
> I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
> can snap like a twig?

That's a popular notion among riders who've never owned a CF bike. I've
been riding a Trek OCLV frame since 1999. It has been crashed many times
over the years, and its in great shape (if only I had held up so well!).
Its a really nice ride, actually.

A bike shop website used to have a writeup of their tour of the Trek US
factory some years ago (unfortunately, they took it off about a year ago).
During the tour, they asked about the durability of CF frames. The Trek
guy gave him a section of frame and a sledgehammer, and challenged him to
break it. He couldn't.

Of course, these are the solid OCLV frames. The hollow-body CF frames
featured on some full-susser models have a thin CF shell, and I've heard
of those getting punctured by a rock.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address

 

[Shawn]

wanguard wrote:
> Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad or
> ...?
>
> I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and it
> can snap like a twig?
>
> I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of carbon
> frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se that? Am I
> wrong?

I abused a Trek 8500 with three main tubes of CF for a decade. Lots of
nicks and dings into the fibers. I broke the original, but that was the
aluminum BB shell. CF doesn't have as much of a problem as metals do
with cracks propogating from stress risers (nicks corners etc.). The
fibers tend to spread the force out such that it is below the force
needed to break the frame (or what ever). My old glider had CF wings
with plenty of little nicks. It could fly around at 150 mph in rough
air, no prob. Wasn't until one of my partners landed it in a lake that
it broke :-(

Shawn

 

[wanguard]

"Shawn" <sdotcurry@bresnananotherdotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wanguard wrote:
>> Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad
>> or ...?
>>
>> I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and
>> it can snap like a twig?
>>
>> I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of
>> carbon frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se
>> that? Am I wrong?
>
> I abused a Trek 8500 with three main tubes of CF for a decade. Lots of
> nicks and dings into the fibers. I broke the original, but that was the
> aluminum BB shell. CF doesn't have as much of a problem as metals do with
> cracks propogating from stress risers (nicks corners etc.). The fibers
> tend to spread the force out such that it is below the force needed to
> break the frame (or what ever). My old glider had CF wings with plenty of
> little nicks. It could fly around at 150 mph in rough air, no prob.
> Wasn't until one of my partners landed it in a lake that it broke :-(
>
> Shawn

Thanks all for posts.
So you all say no problems what so ever. So it looks like I should start to
save some money for an Epic upgrade.

D'

 

[[email protected]]

No, it's a XC bike. I just thought it was funny that it had the "DH"
sticker on it as well as the "no downhill" warning sticker. The 12"
shock is actually 12" eye-to-eye; the travel is probably 3-4 inches. I
haven't been able to find a replacement shock for him anywhere. I
think that's a 100mm fork. If I remember right it is a Manitou Skarab
that I found for him on eBay.

Since that picture was taken he's added a setback seatpost to make the
bike fit him a little better. Now all you have to do is think about
moving your weight back, and the front wheel floats up in the air.
There's no climbs in south Florida, so it works fine for getting over
logs.

It's got Armor hydraulic disc brakes, which I have never seen anywhere
else. I did find a manual on an Australian web site. Nobody in the US
appears to stock replacement brake pads, and his are getting thin.
He'll probably have to replace the whole brake setup, but he says he
wants some wavy rotors anyway.

Dave Wilson
www.davewilson.cc/Bike

 

[Shawn]

wanguard wrote:
> "Shawn" <sdotcurry@bresnananotherdotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>wanguard wrote:
>>
>>>Does anybody rides carbon frame, or knows somebody that does? Good, bad
>>>or ...?
>>>
>>>I'm a bit sceptic about carbon in a off-road set-up, one good scratch and
>>>it can snap like a twig?
>>>
>>>I've just read on singletrackworld.com that Specialized has bunch of
>>>carbon frames for 2006. Looks nice but would it last? I simply can't se
>>>that? Am I wrong?
>>
>>I abused a Trek 8500 with three main tubes of CF for a decade. Lots of
>>nicks and dings into the fibers. I broke the original, but that was the
>>aluminum BB shell. CF doesn't have as much of a problem as metals do with
>>cracks propogating from stress risers (nicks corners etc.). The fibers
>>tend to spread the force out such that it is below the force needed to
>>break the frame (or what ever). My old glider had CF wings with plenty of
>>little nicks. It could fly around at 150 mph in rough air, no prob.
>>Wasn't until one of my partners landed it in a lake that it broke :-(
>>
>>Shawn
>
>
> Thanks all for posts.
> So you all say no problems what so ever. So it looks like I should start to
> save some money for an Epic upgrade.

I didn't say "No Problems", we're talking mountain bike frames here.
Any execution, using any material, will have a weakest point. However,
good engineering with CF produces frames of comparable performance to
(and lighter than) Al, Ti, or Fe. Don't expect similar performance for
similar money. Aluminum and steel are cheap.
FWIW Trek and Giant have been working with composites for a while now
and should be pretty good at it.

Shawn

 

[JD]

Shawn wrote:
> Aluminum and steel are cheap.


Cheap aluminium and cheap steel are cheap. When you start talking
about triple-butted aluminium tubestes on a frame, then you are not
talking cheap for a quality set. Also, good steel like Columbus Foco
is not exactly cheap. In fact, it's more expensive than cheap
titanium.

JD

 

[Shawn]

JD wrote:
> Shawn wrote:
>
>>Aluminum and steel are cheap.
>
>
>
> Cheap aluminium and cheap steel are cheap. When you start talking
> about triple-butted aluminium tubestes on a frame, then you are not
> talking cheap for a quality set. Also, good steel like Columbus Foco
> is not exactly cheap. In fact, it's more expensive than cheap
> titanium.
>
> JD

Sure. All comes down to the labor/effort put into it. Carbon fiber
frames are really just coal and glue in an interesting shape after all.

Shawn

 

[Coyoteboy]

[email protected] wrote:
> My riding buddy has a "Fastrax DH" that he got new off eBay for $850.
> It's a carbon full suspension that looks a little like the old K2

Thats basically identical to my Coyote F2 - same swingarm (carbon)
thats chipped and smashed to hell but hasnt ever given up even under
abuse - only mine has an alu main frame. Unless you damage the fibres
or spot delamination from over-twisting the material you have no issues
- they are usually covered with a decent layer of epoxy anyway - I'd
run a carbon frame for sure - can only be lighter than mine at 44lbs
lol.

J

 

[wanguard]

> I didn't say "No Problems", we're talking mountain bike frames here. Any
> execution, using any material, will have a weakest point. However, good
> engineering with CF produces frames of comparable performance to (and
> lighter than) Al, Ti, or Fe. Don't expect similar performance for similar
> money. Aluminum and steel are cheap.

Well if complete '05 Epic S-works is $5500 and frame is $2000, and expected
price for '06 S-W carbon version is $7000, which will put frame at $3500, is
all but not cheap.

> FWIW Trek and Giant have been working with composites for a while now and
> should be pretty good at it.
>
> Shawn

I gor the carbon fobia from my Easton handlebar. Feeling I liked, but
everything else is so unfriendly. Steam, levers and god forbid barends. The
problem is not a sleadhammer contact, but rather sharp stones, little ones
that are blasted under the tires under big downhill speeds and ones caught
buy tire and squeezed between frame and tire. Or space between frame and
chainrings in case of chainsuck.

D'amir

 

[Coyoteboy]

yack, yer right there
Slack wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> They're ugly as sin and primitive looking
> --
> Slack