Carbon vs Alum

[CoWee]

So I am looking at getting into riding. I have a old friend that has given some recommendations for stuff, but he is a advanced rider so not sure how much of it I would or should look into.

One of the main recommendations he suggested was a carbon seat post at the least. He pointed out that a full carbon bike is going to be the best option all around for stability and ride quality, but should I worry about a full carbon frame for a first bike? Most aluminum's that I have seen have carbon forks and seat posts, which from reading is going to help a ton.

The other recommendation was Shimano 105's with whatever choice I make. I've done a little research and they seem to be pretty common on the bikes.

I just don't want to get something that I am going to replace in a year or two. I want to eventually get myself into riding shape to be able to participate in long rides, ones that can take 2-3 days to complete.

I know many that have done the STP (Seattle to Portland) and this would be a possibility down the road as it is a grueling ride from what I have heard.

I am about 5'10" 165, and the sizing of the bikes is the newest thing to me out of all this. From what I have picked up, a 56 or 58 cm bike would probably fit the best. It is quite intimidating going into a bike shop being the newbie I am. I have knowledge of many other sports and recreations, but I am completely new to this and the only people I know with knowledge are a long ways away for any in person help. Are most shops and groups accepting of the new riders and their learning of the sport?

 

[daveryanwyoming]

'A carbon seat post at least...'

That's gotta be the worst advice I've ever seen for selecting a bike. Carbon seat posts are about the worst case of performance for cash when it comes to buying a bike. You'll never know the difference while riding the bike but you'll notice the difference when paying for that seat post.

Full carbon frames are nice if they're in your budget but there are many great aluminum and steel frames out there as well that are very good bikes, very fast if that's important to you, very comfortable for long rides and very affordable. The frame material isn't nearly as important as many folks suggest, ride quality has a lot more to do with geometry, bike fit, wheels and tires than the frame material or material used in the individual components.

I'd strongly recommend going to a well equipped local bike shop and first looking around a bit to see the cost of different bikes and get a reality check on your budget and needs. Then when you've got a target price range talk the the sales folks, describe your interest or what you think you'll be interested in as in general fitness, maybe some faster or longer club riding on weekends, maybe some form of touring, maybe organized long rides like metric of full centuries or big day tours like STP that you mentioned or RAMROD or RSVP if you happen to be in the Seattle area or perhaps racing if you enjoy competition. They should be able to match your interests to your budget and recommend several candidate bikes. Then you really need to test ride the short listed bikes and see if one or more really rings your bell and gets you excited about riding. Part of that test riding is also dialing in your fit and figuring out what frame size is appropriate (BTW, at 5'10" I'll ride bikes in the 54 to 56 cm range depending on the specific bike geometry and would be surprised if a 58 fits you well).

Anyway, don't worry about a specific seat post or a specific stem or any other single component that simply will not determine the ride quality, performance and overall value of the bike. Start with the basics of your riding interests, a good fit and your budget and work from there. And always test ride bikes as subtle differences can really change how you feel about one bike vs. another. A sales person may or may not try the upsell route which isn't necessarily bad as bikes get nicer as you spend more money but realistically the performance differences aren't as big as they might suggest and for your first bike the key thing is that it fits you, it's more or less appropriate for the riding you hope to do and it doesn't totally drain your bank account because you'll still want cash for riding clothes, patch kit, helmet, perhaps decent riding shoes and clipless pedal system, etc.

First shop for shops to find a local bike store that appeals to you and take it from there.

Good luck,
-Dave
[edit] I see you're somewhere near Boston. So the local Seattle organized tours may not be of so much interest but there's plenty of similar stuff going on the in the Northeast if those things interest you.

 

[CoWee]

It wasn't necessarily something to make sure it had, but things that could help improve comfort and ride quality. But the advice you gave definitely helped as I was looking for a second opinion.

I'm a little too far for the STP unfortunately, but those types of rides are the ones that have gotten my interest the most. Not really going for the scenery, but want to take part in some of the long rides that have a little bit of a competitive feel. Definitely not trying to break the bank as I have a frame of $ that I am looking to spend.

I was thinking that there would be more of difference between the carbon and aluminum frames but guessing not as much as I don't have the riding experience to tell the difference anyways.

Thanks again for the input and I'm off to a shop a little later today to browse. Feels weird though not knowing very much about the sport and having to learn. Hoping they have patience and willing to help me out.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by CoWee .
I was thinking that there would be more of difference between the carbon and aluminum frames but guessing not as much as I don't have the riding experience to tell the difference anyways....

We all like nice bikes and regardless of the performance differences (or lack thereof) most of us like light bikes but realistically unless you're talking about a 30 pound department store special the differences aren't as big as many folks think. I regularly ride a full steel bike for training, a full aluminum cyclocross bike for training and racing and sometimes mount it up with road wheels for long days in the saddle (it's really comfortable and stable with its relaxed geometry) and race a full carbon road bike. Sure I love the carbon bike, it simply feels fast and is feather light but I don't like racing some kinds of races on it in the rain and when I race my full steel bike my results aren't markedly different I still do well some days and don't do so well on other days and the choice of frames isn't really the most important factor.

But sure just like folks love a nice sportscar when a less expensive commuter gets the job done, goes plenty fast for real world conditions and can be fun to drive cyclists love riding the nicest bikes they can afford. Get hooked on the sport and you'll find the funds for more exotic bikes over time but the actual performance differences will likely be less than you might imagine even though things like better component durability or crisper shifting or those kind of things that come along with better equipped bikes is very nice.

...Thanks again for the input and I'm off to a shop a little later today to browse. Feels weird though not knowing very much about the sport and having to learn. Hoping they have patience and willing to help me out.

That should be your first good test of whether you're in the right shop. If they lack the patience and don't see the down the road sales opportunities of getting a new rider off on the right foot with good advice you should think about shopping elsewhere. In particular if they try to force a particular bike on you that you don't like (or simply can't afford) or won't let you test ride or try to rush your decision then it's time to shop elsewhere.

Good luck,
-Dave

 

[64Paramount]

Dave covered the topic pretty well, but if you're still interested in reading more on the subject just use keywords "Carbon vs Alum" in the search function and you'll find lots of threads discussing this topic.

Here's one example:

http://www.cyclingforums.com/forum/thread/352297/alum-vs-carbon

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

'A carbon seat post at least...'

That's gotta be the worst advice I've ever seen for selecting a bike...

That's gotta be the worst advice even for selecting a seatpost, given the Thompson Masterpiece is probably the finest seatpost on the planet - arguably one of the strongest and also very light.

But at the end of the day what you said in your last post was right. It's all about fit, how a given bike actually rides (based upon actually riding it and not some internet junk folklore about how a frame of a given material rides) and intended function. It really doesn't matter if you're riding an oversized coke can, a molded plastic fantasic or some fancy mandrel drawn gas pipe that'll rust if scratched.

CoWee - figure that the fastest time up the legendary ascent of Mt Ventoux was done on an aluminium bike.

If you want to go really fast - buy a $50 clunker off Craigslist and get some mexican doctor to ship you $900 worth of EPO. The you'll go really fast for under a grand Just kiddin'

 

[doctorold]

If I hadn't bought steel, I probably would have bought a CF unless I just happened upon a great deal on an aluminum. You gotta get a bike that fits and is pleasing to you. That will make you want to ride it more often. A certain level of groupset is good. But what kind of riding are you really going to do? That may steer you in completely different directions than what you're thinking.

 

[CoWee]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .




That's gotta be the worst advice even for selecting a seatpost, given the Thompson Masterpiece is probably the finest seatpost on the planet - arguably one of the strongest and also very light.

But at the end of the day what you said in your last post was right. It's all about fit, how a given bike actually rides (based upon actually riding it and not some internet junk folklore about how a frame of a given material rides) and intended function. It really doesn't matter if you're riding an oversized coke can, a molded plastic fantasic or some fancy mandrel drawn gas pipe that'll rust if scratched.

CoWee - figure that the fastest time up the legendary ascent of Mt Ventoux was done on an aluminium bike.

If you want to go really fast - buy a $50 clunker off Craigslist and get some mexican doctor to ship you $900 worth of EPO. The you'll go really fast for under a grand Just kiddin'

LOL that gave me a good laugh, but is the mentality I have taken since reading Dave's original post and some other things relating to the topic.

I ended up going to a shop a couple towns over from me and am leaning towards a certain bike. The shop only carries Fuji and another brand, but I wasn't really interested as the prices were about the same without the additional things I would end up adding. The shop is very small, but the owner was awesome in helping me out with my questions and breaking everything down for me. He pulled out the book with bikes and explained differences between the different styles and narrowed it down to two different lines within the Fuji brand. I am looking to getting into ride that are of longer distances. I am on the east coast, but grew up in Seattle and want to take part in the STP and RSVP next summer.

The two styles were the SL and Roubaix. The SL being carbon and the Roubaix being aluminum with carbon fork. He was not pushy in any way, and only had the SL in stock yesterday as the Roubaix could be ordered and arrive in 2 days. He was actually pushing towards the Roubaix as he said the Aluminum frames have come so far and have a lot of engineering behind them now and ride very comfortable, similar to carbon. Then it was narrowing down the Roubaix from the 2.0 or 1.0. The 1.0 being the probable in the end as it has the 105's already equipped, which is nice cause he was stating that support vehicles for the longer rides usually carry 20 speed wheels and not the 18 speed wheels as the 105 equipment is very popular. So for the rides I was mentioning, it would be better supported to go with the 105 setup. The difference in price was not significant and would cost me just as much to put the 105's on it, although I liked the color of the 2.0 better than the 1.0.

So I think I am going to go with the Roubaix 1.0 and SPD's. The SPD's would help with a spin class when that time comes as well. We did a lot of other talking about riding around the area and the different styles of rides that there are. Anything I purchase at the time of the bike would receive 10% off. In the end, we were talking $1400 roughly which would have a computer, shorts, shoes, and pedals included. Didn't think that was too shabby. When the bike arrives, I would go and get it fitted and if I do not feel comfortable after test riding it I am not obligated to purchase it. This was a huge plus. I am going to sleep on it a little more and probably make my visit on Monday to have the order placed.