"Michael Wäsch" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> > something you shuld EVER see unless you're eating a no or ultra low carb diet. I didn't get the
> > impression you were doing either.
>
> I eat between 100 and 140 grams of carbon hydrates a day.
That amount shouldn't cause you to spill. Something else would appear to be going on here. (like a
lack of insulin?)
>
> > Indeed, because ketones usually present when there's too little insulin,
> not
> > too much sugar. This is why I mentioned it. If you're spilling ketones,
> your
> > medication isn't correct.
>
> There is nothing I can do about. In days I had to inject insulin my values were even worse and I
> had a lot more ketones.
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, in fact it makes NO sense. Maybe you've got another problem
other than the diabetes. I "would" say go to see a doc but apparently that's not going to happen.
>
> > > Doc: "That can't be said. Next year, next decade or even never.".
> > Or even today? If you're running the levels you ARE running, then you
> either
> > need insulin or some medication to address your resistance problem, but
>
> My doc says that I can not. Although my liver values are better now, he thinks that oral
> antidiabetica would harm it again.
So now you're not using ANY meds??
>
> > spilling ketones. Your A1c's aren't "whoopie" either, as you've gone
> beyond
> > the point the DCCT use as a "trigger" for increasing your chances of possible complications down
> > the line. They (the DCCT) advice we keep our A1c's below 6.2. All this points to your medication
> > being wrong or insufficient (from where I'm sitting)
>
> In Germany my doctors are very happy with my values.
Well if a doctor told me that HE was happy with my A1c's f they were above
6.2, I'd congratlate him on his care and promptly find another doctor. (and we're in the HS over
here so you can't tell me much about health care and the people within it)
We are supposed to keep
> A1c below 6,5 and bg levels after meals below 160 mg/dl.
Both figures are too high. A1c below 6.2 and post meal BG;s below 140.
>
> > a BIG problem here. If you're not medicated and exercise doesn't bring
> your
> > sugar levels down, the exercise itself can cause more harm than good.
You
> > need to be able to burn the glucose that the muscles use for fuel and if
> you
> > can't, the result of exercising is a HIGHER sugar level.
>
> Excercise will bring me down, not fast, but it will. I have never seen any rising sugar levels by
> doing excercises, except if I had to work (physically) very hard.
Isnt that what exercise is? I'm not saying a stroll in the park will raise your already high
BG's, I'm saying that if they're high and you exercise (which means hard physical effort) they'll
go higher.
>
> Some examples:
>
> Without medication: Let's say 240 mg/dl after meal. Then gone for a short walk outside (5 minutes)
> then resting 10 minutes. Measuring again: 190 mg/dl.
That's about right for mild exercise.
>
> With insulin: I would surely have more than 300 mg/dl (thats a proven
fact).
Well you SAY it's a proven fact, but like I said before, maybe something else is going on. Insulin
is THE most effective "material" for lowering BG's, yout it causes yours to go high. that's a VERY
strange system you're operating with there.
> Same walk, same rest. Measure again: 170 mg/dl.
>
> Taking again insulin would worsen my values to the limit of my
imagination:
>
> Example out of my insulin days:
>
> Same food, same time, same starting bg level, diffrent amount of insulin.
>
> Day 1: Before meal: 120 mg/dl, 9 IU human r, after meal (1,5 hrs) = 220 mg/dl
you dont say what the meal is, and if the igestion of the meal doesn't "match" the activity crve of
the insulin, you can go high and then drop low. get the curves of the food and the insuoin working
together however, and the BG rise is almost zero, as is the following drop. Actrapid (Human R) is
one of THE worst insulins to "match" food too because it's too slow to get going and it has a too
long tail, so after the food is "gone", the R keeps on shoving your BG down. Try eating either a
MUCH slower meal (add fibre wherever possible and LOTS of it) or change to using a faster insulin
such as Humalog or NovoRapid. both of these are MUCH MUCH faster in their "start-up" time, and both
"rin out of steam" a long time before R does. This could be an option.
> Day 2: 10 IU, After meal = 220 mg/dl Day 3: 12 IU, After meal = 240 mg/dl Day 4: 15 IU !!!, After
> meal = 280 mg/dl !!!
>
> Doc says: "Thats normal! As type-2 you don't stand a chance of getting
down
> those values with this small increase of insulin. You would have to
increas
> in 10 IU-steps and then are in severe danger of hypoglycaemia.".
He may have a point, (although I doubt it) but have you considered a faster insulin?
>
> But what for. I did exactly that for 6 months only to create some sort of receptor-down-
> regulation. I then needed more than 80 IU of insulin a day, steadily increasing. No, insulin doe
> not do any good for me. My values are now way better than before, even if they are not good
> enough, compared
with
> US or GB standards.
Please don't confuse our standards and those in the US as being "tighter" than yours in Germany. The
same standards are worldwide. Just because you're German doesn't mean you're not at risk from
complications at the same "point" as the rest of the world. Your doctor needs a serious slap in the
mouth, or you NEED another doctor.
>
> > centre.something you can go to? Can you not go private for a single
"real"
> > consultation? If MY life and health depended on doing that, then that's
> what
> > I'd do.
>
> I could do and I tried it twice, but the only thing they do for you there
is
> to rigidly shoot your values down by using fast working insulin types like lispro or aspart.
But do they not then tell you to continue with lispro/aspart insulins? It seems to me that doing so
would be an EXTREMELY good idea.
They won't even accept, that I might get into hypos very
> fast. They never believed any of my argumentation.
Well which medico's do? None that I've ever come across, so I don't give them reasons or arguments,
I give them a choice. Give me what I want or I get it from someplace else.
>
> One night I was so hungry (while at home), so I wanted to eat anothe 25g
of
> carbon hydrates at 2 am, but I still had 220 mg/dl. But I couldn't resist, so I ate and applied 1
> single IU of human R for 25 carbs plus 220 mg/dl, then the hell broke loose. Within 15 minutes my
> bg levels dropped below
150
> mg/dl so fast falling I had never experienced before. In shere panic I
woke
> my girlfried in order to get a doctor if I fall unconsciousness. To that point my bg levels were
> already down below 120 mg/dl. I felt that I had to die and drank Cola in order to stop my bg
> levels from falling any further, but it was of no use. In the end I had to drink the equivalent of
> 70 grams of carbon hydrates in order to stabilize bg levels at 120 mg/dl.
Ok, so you had a good old hypo, and they happen frm time to time (to ALL of us), but it's entirely
possible that your insulin injections caught a vein which DOES make for a "rapid" drop. You did what
we all have to do on occasion though, and had a high carb drink and didn't die. A singe unit if
insulin into fat or muscle would NOT drop you that far, that quickly, it's just physically not
possible. It's also possible that the insulin injection was "perfectly" timed with your own pancreas
dumping insuoin to bering down the high BG, so you gat a "double whammy". Having said that, calling
the doctor when your BG is 150 isn't going to win you any doctor friends.
>
> Let's summarize: 220 mg/dl starting value, 25 carbs eaten, then 1 IU human r, then another 70
> carbs in order to survive.
>
> Well, the doctors don't care. They don't get hypos and they don't get
blind.
> Oh yes blind. More than a couple of people were now blind, because they
got
> too much insulin and got too often too fast down while being used to have higher values.
It's not the coming down that causes blindness, it's the constantly being high. (Above 120 for me is
a definite no-no)
The doctors don't care. They just walk away without any word
> of excuse and they even get rewarded for their good work!
I know that, and I feel the same as you regarding them.
>
> > Are you on ANY medication for you diabetes btw, because it's screaming
out
> > for at least a script for one of the drugs in the Metformin group.
>
> I can't take metformin. I just get diarrea from it.
Most people get it when they first begin with it, but most people "work through it". If you can't do
that, and your doc won't prescribe sulphs because of your liver, then insulin is your ONLT
alternative.#
Beav
