"Carlton" cycle?

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by T I M, Mar 13, 2003.

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  1. T I M

    T I M Guest

    Hi Folks,

    Yesterday, I was given a 'gent's racing bike' by a mate who was about to 'chuck it in the skip'?

    It seems to be of 'reasonable' spec and although there is lots of surface rust (on the few chrome
    bits there are) it seems to come off quite easily with a little bit of effort. (there are chromed
    steel rims, mechs, saddle tube, pedals, 5 speed block, crank and a couple of bolts).

    The rest seems to be ally including the two chain rings and built in chain guard (ring), the
    cotterless cranks, centre pull brakes, quill stem, drop bars and brake levers.

    From a quick measurement it is a 23" (steel, lugged) frame .. would that be 'usable' (I know 'fit'
    is a big issue so please don't flame
    me) for a 6'2" bloke?

    A LBS owning friend suggested that 'Carlton' was one of the UK manufacturers and was bought (and
    consumed) by Raleigh?

    When cleaning the rims today I noticed a 1983 date stamp?

    Anyone know of this range please and would it be worth 'restoring' this to use when I fancied a
    change from the tandem or the MTB?

    All the best and thanks for your time ..

    T i m (not an expert so forgive my poor descriptions)
     
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  2. Alex Graham

    Alex Graham Guest

    Hi,

    Have a look at www.classicrendezvous.com (if I remember the URL correctly)

    there is some info abt Carlton there. There is indeed a connection between Raleigh and Carlton and
    afaik they are nice bikes.

    HTH

    -Alex
    --
    ----------------------+ Alex Graham | [email protected] | ----------------------+
     
  3. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:47:54 +0000 (UTC), Alex Graham <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >
    >Have a look at www.classicrendezvous.com (if I remember the URL correctly)
    >
    >there is some info abt Carlton there. There is indeed a connection between Raleigh and Carlton and
    >afaik they are nice bikes.
    >
    >HTH
    >
    >-Alex

    [Tim] Thanks for that Alex .. I'll check it out .

    Cheers ..

    T i m
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    T i m wrote:
    > From a quick measurement it is a 23" (steel, lugged) frame .. would that be 'usable' (I know 'fit'
    > is a big issue so please don't flame
    > me) for a 6'2" bloke?
    ..........
    > would it be worth 'restoring' this to use when I fancied a change from the tandem or the MTB?

    I'm about the same height and would find it a bit small. Because of this and the age, I would just
    use it as a hack bike to get to the local shops & pub, etc. Unless you're particularly into this
    vintage, you're bound to enjoy a modern road bike much more if/when you do get something as a proper
    change, and this Carlton probably has virtually no monetry value unless you find someone who fancies
    the frame.

    In particular, the brakes will be rubbish, and the steel rims and chain guard indicate that it was a
    cheap model. Might be worth new tyres, saddle and changing handlebar stem if reach too short but
    it's not worth spending any more on it than that unless the frame is good for you.

    ~PB
     
  5. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:57:02 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >T i m wrote:
    >> From a quick measurement it is a 23" (steel, lugged) frame .. would that be 'usable' (I know
    >> 'fit' is a big issue so please don't flame
    >> me) for a 6'2" bloke?
    >..........
    >> would it be worth 'restoring' this to use when I fancied a change from the tandem or the MTB?
    >

    [T] Hi Pete,

    >I'm about the same height and would find it a bit small.

    Ok ..

    Because of this and the age, I would just use it as a hack bike to get to the local shops
    & pub, etc.

    [V] On the grounds that it won't get knicked?

    Unless you're particularly into this vintage, you're bound to
    >enjoy a modern road bike much more if/when you do get something as a proper change, and this
    >Carlton probably has virtually no monetry value unless you find someone who fancies the frame.

    [W] Ok, good to know ..
    >
    In particular, the brakes will be rubbish,

    [X] Oh .. that's a shame ... they 'look' good (and the blocks / rim edge look new?) .. Weinmann
    centre pulls with Weinmann levers and it says 'Dia-Comp' on the extension things that come up
    the inside of the bars?

    and the steel rims

    [Y] They have that 'cross hatching' on the friction area?

    and chain guard

    [Z] I'm not sure I explained that properly Paul. It is thin ally ring that bolts onto the outside of
    the big ring. (The big (52t) ally ring has 'SD' stamped into it and on the chrome bolts to the
    small ring it says 'Sakae". I notice the big ring is part of the crank rather being on a spider?

    indicate that it was a cheap model.

    [Z] Ok .. ;-(

    Might be worth new tyres,

    [Z] Well, the tyres look 'shot' (perished) but saying that the front tyre is still inflated after 5
    years (I'm told) and they have no splits. I would change them and the tubes anyway. I'll take
    the tyres off the rims and only spend any money if the inside of the rims are not all rusty).

    saddle

    [Z] The saddle seems to be a sort of rubber Paul and also appears to be in good condition? ( I
    suspect that like most cyclists) I have a box full of saddles to choose from stick on there!

    and changing handlebar stem if reach too short

    [Z] I like a 'relaxed' riding position so I don't mind the stem being a bit short (as long as I can
    get my legs in there!) .

    but it's not worth spending any more on it than that unless the frame is good for you.

    [Z] A final 'good point' is that I am very good friends with the owner of the LBS and get all my
    parts 'trade' .. ;-)
    >
    >~PB
    >
    All the best Paul and thanks for your help .. (It's good to know what you have got in any
    case ...) ;-)

    All the best ..

    T i m
     
  6. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    T i m wrote:

    > Because of this and the age, I would just use it as a hack bike to get to the local shops &
    > pub, etc.
    >
    > [T] On the grounds that it won't get knicked?

    Yep, and to keep your nice bikes nice - in bad weather or leaving it in dodgy places, etc.

    > In particular, the brakes will be rubbish,
    >
    > [T] Oh .. that's a shame ... they 'look' good (and the blocks / rim edge look new?) .. Weinmann
    > centre pulls with Weinmann levers

    The centre pulls may be reasonable, but the levers are very poor in comparison to modern ones. I've
    still got Weinmann's on my hack bike so I know exactly how they (don't) work :-(

    > and it says 'Dia-Comp' on the extension things that come up the inside of the bars?

    They're known as "suicide levers" because of their limited effect - but can be ok at low/moderate
    speed if brakes are carfully adjusted and with (good) brake blocks very close to rims. Should use
    brakes from drops instead at high speed.

    > and the steel rims
    >
    > [T] They have that 'cross hatching' on the friction area?

    They may halp braking a bit (especially when rusty!!), but all steel rims are horrible really,
    aren't they? (Poor braking, heavy, rust, more difficult to true).

    > and chain guard
    >
    > [T] I'm not sure I explained that properly Paul. It is thin ally ring that bolts onto the outside
    > of the big ring. (The big (52t) ally ring has 'SD' stamped into it and on the chrome bolts to
    > the small ring it says 'Sakae".

    I know what you mean Bill. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just that the better chainsets didn't
    tend to have them - so it's an indication of the general quality and style of the whole bike.

    > I notice the big ring is part of the crank rather being on a spider?

    Yes so replacing the ring may be impossible, I suppose.

    > but it's not worth spending any more on it than that unless the frame is good for you.
    >
    > [T] A final 'good point' is that I am very good friends with the owner of the LBS and get all my
    > parts 'trade' .. ;-)

    A pair of Record Ergo levers then please :)

    > All the best Paul and thanks for your help .. (It's good to know what you have got in any case
    > ...) ;-)

    You're welcome Marjorie :) Enjoy whatever you do with the bike.

    cheers ~PB
     
  7. T i m <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > A LBS owning friend suggested that 'Carlton' was one of the UK manufacturers and was bought (and
    > consumed) by Raleigh?
    >

    Indeed - it specialised almost exclusively in handbuilt racing machines (I think John Atkins won
    many of his umpteen UK pro 'cross championships on Carltons). The firm's original base was near
    Worksop, Notts., and thrived under the enterprising O'Donovan family, but was later absorbed into
    Raleigh as you say, and the operation was wound down in the early '80s in favour of Raleigh's own
    Lightweight Division based at Ilkeston, itself later relocated to the main Nottingham site.

    David E. Belcher

    Dept. of Chemistry, University of York
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "T i m" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    <snip carlton description>

    Remember the thread about sun solos a couple of weeks back? This is essentially the same bike,
    although a bit higher up the range.

    23" works for my 6'2" (and my father).

    Frame would make a good basis for a fixed hack bike. (or you could even have gears on it...)

    cheers, clive
     
  9. Markk

    Markk Guest

    "T i m" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hi Folks,
    >
    > Yesterday, I was given a 'gent's racing bike' by a mate who was about to 'chuck it in the skip'?
    >
    > It seems to be of 'reasonable' spec and although there is lots of surface rust (on the few chrome
    > bits there are) it seems to come off quite easily with a little bit of effort. (there are chromed
    > steel rims, mechs, saddle tube, pedals, 5 speed block, crank and a couple of bolts).
    >
    > The rest seems to be ally including the two chain rings and built in chain guard (ring), the
    > cotterless cranks, centre pull brakes, quill stem, drop bars and brake levers.
    >
    > From a quick measurement it is a 23" (steel, lugged) frame .. would that be 'usable' (I know 'fit'
    > is a big issue so please don't flame
    > me) for a 6'2" bloke?
    >
    > A LBS owning friend suggested that 'Carlton' was one of the UK manufacturers and was bought (and
    > consumed) by Raleigh?
    >
    > When cleaning the rims today I noticed a 1983 date stamp?
    >
    > Anyone know of this range please and would it be worth 'restoring' this to use when I fancied a
    > change from the tandem or the MTB?
    >
    > All the best and thanks for your time ..
    >
    > T i m (not an expert so forgive my poor descriptions)
    >

    I bought a Carlton Corsa new in about 1978. I think I paid about £75 for it. I still have it,
    having periodically re-painted/re-built it. It won't be worth much. I've only kept mine for
    sentimental reasons.

    The original spec was: Weinman centre-pull brakes with ordinary single levers (not the "suicide"
    ones described, thought I've changed to these :), 5-speed gears with lever on the downtube, front
    chainset, cranks & pedals were chromed steel (heavy), leather Brooks saddle, 27x1.25 tyres on
    chromed steel wheels, stubby 6" aluminium mudguards, alloy dropped bars, alloy stem, chromed steel
    seatpost, lugs for mudguards, but not rack, fitting on RH fork for front light.

    The brakes are mediocre. The wheels are an outdated size (you can still get them & tyres, though).
    It's no lightweight.

    It's only worth restoring if you want a bike that's unlikely to get nicked, but will probably be
    uneconomic compared to buying a good used bike.

    HTH

    MarkK
     
  10. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On 14 Mar 2003 02:50:39 -0800, [email protected] (David E. Belcher) wrote:

    >T i m <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >> A LBS owning friend suggested that 'Carlton' was one of the UK manufacturers and was bought (and
    >> consumed) by Raleigh?
    >>
    >
    >Indeed - it specialised almost exclusively in handbuilt racing machines (I think John Atkins won
    >many of his umpteen UK pro 'cross championships on Carltons). The firm's original base was near
    >Worksop, Notts., and thrived under the enterprising O'Donovan family, but was later absorbed into
    >Raleigh as you say, and the operation was wound down in the early '80s in favour of Raleigh's own
    >Lightweight Division based at Ilkeston, itself later relocated to the main Nottingham site.
    >
    >David E. Belcher
    >
    >Dept. of Chemistry, University of York

    [T] Hi David,

    Thanks for that .. so it has *some* pedigree then?

    T i m
     
  11. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:55:10 -0000, "Clive George"

    >"T i m" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    ><snip carlton description>
    >
    >Remember the thread about sun solos a couple of weeks back?

    [T] Hi Clive, no, sorry, just joined this list ... what did I miss?

    This is
    >essentially the same bike, although a bit higher up the range.

    *Higher* up the range eh? ;-)
    >
    >23" works for my 6'2" (and my father).

    [V] Ok .. should fit me then?
    >
    >Frame would make a good basis for a fixed hack bike. (or you could even have gears on it...)

    [W] Never had a fixed wheel bike ... well it is one at the moment as the rear block is seized? I've
    never understood folk who leave their bikes out in the rain with no cover at all .. ?
    >
    >cheers, clive
    >
    >
    >
    [X] Thanks for that Clive ..

    T i m
     
  12. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:48:26 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >
    >> but it's not worth spending any more on it than that unless the frame is good for you.
    >>
    >> [T] A final 'good point' is that I am very good friends with the owner of the LBS and get all my
    >> parts 'trade' .. ;-)
    >
    >A pair of Record Ergo levers then please :)
    >
    >> All the best Paul and thanks for your help .. (It's good to know what you have got in any case
    >> ...) ;-)
    >
    >You're welcome Marjorie :) Enjoy whatever you do with the bike.
    >
    >cheers ~PB
    >
    >
    Bill? Marjorie ..? ;-)

    Anyway .. I took it to bits this afternoon and found ..

    Front rim a bit rusty inside Front cones a bit worn, bearings iffy but cups useable. Spokes a bit
    'slack' but rim fairly true.

    Rear rim more rusty inside Rear cones slightly worn. Cups look 'ok' also. Spokes a bit 'slack' but
    rim fairly true. 5 sp block seized .. not removed as yet (my Shimano spline tool wrong size?)

    Bottom bracket cup out but not cleaned, as with bottom bracket crank.

    Chain seized in a few places but will probably work free after tonights soak in paraffin (someone
    mentioned the use of heat?)

    Both wheels in the rear mech were seized but I've got most of it to bits and sorted one wheel. I
    can't get the bolt out of the top wheel as it seems stuck in the outside side plate (just goes round
    and won't come out)

    Brake callipers are (now) clean as is the front mech (a bit rusty on some of the seat tube
    mounting bracket)

    Still got the headset to strip ..

    After spending an afternoon on it I'm torn as what to do ..

    1) Put it back together with some new cones / bearings / cables / tyres/tubes etc and leave it at
    that, as you say, as a 'hack'?

    2) Replace a few more bits and re-spray the frame (it's a bit 'scruffy' ) stick on long mudguards
    and a spare rack and make it a more useful 'hack'.

    3) Stick it all on the boot of the car and take it to the dump?

    Answers on an ecard please ;-)

    Bill, Marjorie or T i m
     
  13. T I M

    T I M Guest

    >I bought a Carlton Corsa new in about 1978. I think I paid about £75 for it. I still have it,
    >having periodically re-painted/re-built it. It won't be worth much. I've only kept mine for
    >sentimental reasons.
    >
    >The original spec was: Weinman centre-pull brakes with ordinary single levers (not the "suicide"
    >ones described, thought I've changed to these :), 5-speed gears with lever on the downtube, front
    >chainset, cranks & pedals were chromed steel (heavy), leather Brooks saddle, 27x1.25 tyres on
    >chromed steel wheels, stubby 6" aluminium mudguards, alloy dropped bars, alloy stem, chromed steel
    >seatpost, lugs for mudguards, but not rack, fitting on RH fork for front light.
    >
    >The brakes are mediocre. The wheels are an outdated size (you can still get them & tyres, though).
    >It's no lightweight.
    >
    >It's only worth restoring if you want a bike that's unlikely to get nicked, but will probably be
    >uneconomic compared to buying a good used bike.
    >
    >HTH
    >
    >MarkK
    >
    Hi Mark ..

    Thanks for that ..

    It sounds very much like mine all but the steel chainring and cranks (mine are ally and is a 10
    speed) and the Brooks saddle ..(I'll have to check again but I though the saddle on mine was black
    rubber?) ;-(

    My LBS says he has a pair of 27" x 1¼ tyres and tubes in stock waiting for me .. ?

    All the best Mark ..

    T i m
     
  14. Nick Kew

    Nick Kew Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, one of infinite monkeys at the keyboard of
    T i m <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Thanks for that .. so it has *some* pedigree then?

    I had something that called itself (IIRC) a "Carlton Corsair", bought in about 1983. Basically a
    tourer form, with 531 tubes and absurdly wide gears (52/14 to 42/34). I found it served best as a
    commuter bike in traffic, delivering a very lively performance in stop/go conditions, but that my
    other bike (also a tourer[1]) was more comfortable/relaxing over the long haul.

    [1] The other one was bought in a hurry in '85. My then-employer sent me to work in Germany, and
    told me there was good public transport to my place of work, so I decided to leave the bike
    until I'd found a flat. It turned out that the transport links comprised some big boards
    announcing the extension of the Nurnberg underground to Rothenbach, then under construction ...
    so I urgently needed a new bike!

    --
    Axis of Evil: Whose economy needs ever more wars? Arms Exports $bn: USA 14.2, UK 5.1, vs France 1.5,
    Germany 0.8
     
  15. Geoff Bowles

    Geoff Bowles Guest

    My first proper bike was a bright red Carlton Grand Prix, back in the '60s. It seemed more exclusive
    than the ubiquitous Raleighs of the day, and I remember spending hours poring over the catalogue,
    and being impressed by the descriptions of the "hand-built" frames. I lived in Somerset, and would
    often ride the 8 miles to Minehead where I was at school. Sadly that bike was stolen outside the old
    cinema on the harbour front at Watchet....

    Geoff

    "Nick Kew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, one of infinite
    monkeys
    > at the keyboard of T i m <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Thanks for that .. so it has *some* pedigree then?
    >
    > I had something that called itself (IIRC) a "Carlton Corsair", bought in about 1983. Basically a
    > tourer form, with 531 tubes and absurdly wide gears (52/14 to 42/34). I found it served best as a
    > commuter bike in traffic, delivering a very lively performance in stop/go conditions, but that my
    > other bike (also a tourer[1]) was more comfortable/relaxing over the long haul.
    >
    > [1] The other one was bought in a hurry in '85. My then-employer sent me to work in Germany, and
    > told me there was good public transport to my place of work, so I decided to leave the bike
    > until I'd found a flat. It turned out that the transport links comprised some big boards
    > announcing the extension of the Nurnberg underground to Rothenbach, then under construction
    > ... so I urgently needed a new bike!
    >
    > --
    > Axis of Evil: Whose economy needs ever more wars? Arms Exports $bn: USA 14.2, UK 5.1, vs France
    > 1.5, Germany 0.8
     
  16. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    >> 23" works for my 6'2" (and my father).
    >
    > [T] Ok .. should fit me then?

    23" is one of the most common sizes for ordinary 1980's "racers" (of which I've seen quite a few),
    6' 2" is quite a bit taller than average height. These two points don't seem to match up to me. You
    have to wonder who the massed produced 24 and 25" bikes were/are for. Also, bikes of this vintage
    didn't tend to have such long top tubes in relation to their seat tubes, so modern bikes can be
    smaller (in seat tube size) to get the same fit.

    ~PB
     
  17. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 06:20:21 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >
    >>> 23" works for my 6'2" (and my father).
    >>
    >> [T] Ok .. should fit me then?
    >
    >23" is one of the most common sizes for ordinary 1980's "racers" (of which I've seen quite a few),
    >6' 2" is quite a bit taller than average height. These two points don't seem to match up to me. You
    >have to wonder who the massed produced 24 and 25" bikes were/are for. Also, bikes of this vintage
    >didn't tend to have such long top tubes in relation to their seat tubes, so modern bikes can be
    >smaller (in seat tube size) to get the same fit.
    >
    >~PB
    >

    [T] Hi again Pete,

    I note you points and thanks again..

    I'm no 'cyclist' tho I have cycled since a kid.

    15 years ago my mate joined Trek and was given a new full susser as his 'company cycle' ;-)

    He sold me his much modified (23") Saracen 'Trecker' that had Sachs drum brakes. I only have a
    small amount of seat tube showing on that compared with the large amount on a new (cheapo) ally
    framed 21" MTB?

    Probably much against the rules I've stuck a pair of cheap (to me) RST suspension forks on the
    Saracen and fairly agressive 'trail' tyres. It still has a Bio-pace (was it?) chainset and
    twist-grip's (21 sp) but it fit's me well and makes a great geatabout bike ;-)

    So, the Carlton's going in the skip then Pete?

    T i m
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "T i m" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > So, the Carlton's going in the skip then Pete?

    Well, I'd be interested in the frame if you're going to skip it.

    cheers, clive
     
  19. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    T i m wrote:

    > So, the Carlton's going in the skip then Pete?

    Sorry, I didn't mean to completely put you off. I only meant that it /might/ be on the small side -
    but this doesn't matter for a hack bike (when used for short distances at least). I hate to see ANY
    bikes in skips!!

    ~PB
     
  20. Colin W

    Colin W Guest

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:27:10 +0000, [email protected] (Nick Kew) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, one of infinite monkeys at the keyboard of
    >T i m <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Thanks for that .. so it has *some* pedigree then?
    >
    >I had something that called itself (IIRC) a "Carlton Corsair", bought in about 1983. Basically a
    >tourer form, with 531 tubes and absurdly wide gears (52/14 to 42/34). I found it served best as a
    >commuter bike in traffic, delivering a very lively performance in stop/go conditions, but that my
    >other bike (also a tourer[1]) was more comfortable/relaxing over the long haul.
    >
    >[1] The other one was bought in a hurry in '85. My then-employer sent me to work in Germany, and
    > told me there was good public transport to my place of work, so I decided to leave the bike
    > until I'd found a flat. It turned out that the transport links comprised some big boards
    > announcing the extension of the Nurnberg underground to Rothenbach, then under construction ...
    > so I urgently needed a new bike!

    I still have a Carlton Corsair purchased in 1983. I think that Raleigh having bought out Carlton
    sold quite a few bikes that year using the name before ditching it.

    It is used as a hack bike but I have long since changed the brakes and gear ratios. The brake levers
    used to have a so called safety extension which I always thought was a most inappropriate
    description.

    Colin
     
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