Carnacs make me puke.

[Jay Tegeder]

It wasn't containment that worked against the Soviet Bloc... It was the Pershing II missles that we
placed in Western Europe against the wishes of the populations of Western Europe. That move, along
with the threat of the Strategic Defense Innitiative (Star Wars, also opposed by the populations of
Western Europe and many liberals in the U.S.) pushed the Soviets into a spending war they lost in an
effort to match military moves. Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders saw their economies collapsing.
The communist dream (actually, totalitarian dictatorships) was over. Capitalism won. The people who
built those Pershing II missles had jobs, bought food, clothing, housing and cars. They helped the
U.S. economy grow along with other businesses and created the capital that defeated the Soviets. The
very thing the communists hated, Capitalism, led to their downfall.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >From: "one of the six billion" [email protected]
>
> > >If you want to kill someone why don't you go over there and do it your self?
> >
> > You know what dickwad, I sat my ass in the freezing sleet looking over the
> > border at Czech T-72 tanks with their main guns pointed at my ass before the
> > Berlin wall fell. Americans have put their asses on the line for more people
> > around the world without it having been a former colony, or demamding payment

> > The last person the world generally agreed was perfect was tacked to a cross for being a rebel.
> > At least we have made an effort for something other than colonial gain.
>
>
>
> We did the right thing in the Cold War.
>
> Containment worked against the Soviet Union. Since you looked down the barrell of T-72s, I'm
> sure you will agree that the successful containment policy was preferable to an attempted
> pre-emptive strike.
>
> What is being proposed now (by W. Bush) is not containment.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Jay Tegeder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It wasn't containment that worked against the Soviet Bloc... It was the Pershing II missles that
> we placed in Western Europe against the wishes of the populations of Western Europe. That move,
> along with the threat of the Strategic Defense Innitiative (Star Wars, also opposed by the
> populations of Western Europe and many liberals in the U.S.) pushed the Soviets into a spending
> war they lost in an effort to match military moves.

That is a huge myth. Soviet defense spending did not rise in the 80's.

> Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders saw their economies collapsing.

They did, but it was because Centrally Planned Economies do not work over the long run.

>The communist dream (actually, totalitarian dictatorships) was over. Capitalism won.

Yes, free market capitalism has won.

>The people who built those Pershing II missles had jobs,

The Pershing missiles have nothing to do with it.

Let me say that you are one of the more brainwashed posters we've had here. You're not dumb, but you
are brainwashed.

 

[Tom Schulenburg]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:Wi8ca.597>

> Yes, free market capitalism has won.
>
>

Is that Free Market or Free Enterprise?

-Tom

 

[Arts]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:01:02 +0000, Donald Munro wrote:

> Danny Callen wrote:
>> Maybe we should just put a big goddam fence around the US and the rest of you poor bastards can
>> bang on rocks to communicate with each other...yes it was us that invented the computer as well.
>
> To the best of my knowledge Alan Turing was British.
Good one! It reminded me that Jacquard was French. Going to be difficult restricting ourselves to
inventions of the Coalition of the Billing, er..willing.

 

[Sparhawk]

On 13 Mar 2003 03:12:47 GMT, [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:

>>From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email protected]
>
>>We did the right thing in the Cold War.
>>
>>Containment worked against the Soviet Union. Since you looked down the barrell of T-72s, I'm
>>sure you will agree that the successful containment policy was preferable to an attempted
>>pre-emptive strike.
>>
>>What is being proposed now (by W. Bush) is not containment.
>
> No it is not. Different conflict, different strategy. We could not militarily liberate eastern
> Europe without the Soviets responding and wiping out most of western Europe first, and that's a
> best case if it stayed conventional. Iraq is an isolated target, there is at least an arguable
> case for attacking. Realisticaly they are a minimal threat in conventional warfare. Other than
> Hussein attempting a grand gesture in his martyrdom, I think casualties will be fairly low on both
> sides. ****** and the SS were going to make a last stand in the Alpenfestung, it didn't happen.
> Once Patton broke through in Bavaria they surrendered and ran. I do not think that the Iraqi army
> is better disciplined and motivated than the SS. I think they will fold on contact. This will
> allow the UN to provide aid to ALL of Iraq. My judgement is that it's going to be less costly in
> terms of civilian lives to invade, then turn it over to the aid agencies, than to indefintely wait
> for things in Iraq to get better. If the UN had been more agressive over the last 12 years I'd
> have more faith in the long term. The other question I have is related to costs. De Villepin has
> stated that the only reason Hussein is complying is due to the US military buildup and threat.
> France, Germany, and Russia want this to continue indefinitely. My question is, are they going to
> write the checks to pay for maintaining US forces on Iraq's borders? We could really use that
> money for social programs. I would tend to doubt it since their economies make ours look like it's
> in a boom. If they are willing to pay for it, with a hard deadline, with hard standards, I would
> support the delay, as long as they deployed an equal number of troops or guaranteed an equal
> dollar amount in aid. Bill C.

Some of what you say rings true but saving money for social programs is not one of Bush's
priorities, tax cuts for the rich are his number
1.

North Korea is more of a threat than is Iraq but the North Koreans have been known to fight back.

Sparhawk

 

[Sparhawk]

On 13 Mar 2003 14:08:50 GMT, [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:

>>From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email protected]
>
>One thing everybody seems to agree upon is the tribes in the region make Iraq a very difficult
>nation to govern. It really isn't a nation persay. Winston Churchill scribbled the borders of the
>Middle East on the back of a napkin as the Allies tried to reorganize the world after WW2. The
>result of this arbitrariness? the Kurds got sawed in half, we have the Israeli/Palestinian
>problem, etc.
>
>Every single government in the region is, without exception, brutal (including Israel). I think
>there is a reason for it: it's the only way to keep the various tribes under control.
>
> I think that the Turk/Kurd situation could very well continue to be a large problem as well as the
> Shia/Baathist split. The only type of free government that I can see working, and I think it will,
> would be a loose confederation largely controlled by a parliamentary based limited central
> government. The key in my mind will be to allow all the groups to participate with a minimum of US
> meddling. I think that from listening to the stories of people who escaped Husseins regime that
> there will be a groundswell of goodwill towards the US after the war if we can get it done
> quickly, and moderately cleanly. Again I think we can. We are going to have to avoid the urge to
> medle too much even if it seems they want us to. I think they will say "Thank You, now go home,
> and leave a check on the way out". We have to be prepared to do just that. Bill C.

Nah, a GI will marry anything, expect a lot of Iraqi war brides to be brought back home.

Sparhawk

 

[Sparhawk]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:50:46 -0500, "Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > I had the same thought this morning but jeeeez they're Carnacs and
>> they're
>> > awful dam comfy so I've decided to ban French Wine from my house.
>> Besides,
>> > if I had to get rid of all my French stuff, I wouldn't have much cycling stuff left. In the
>> > scheme of things, France is nothing more than a small pimple on the ass of the world so who
>> > cares...
>> >
>>
>> US foreign policy is a huge boil on the worlds face. I love how someone from a country with only
>> 6% of the worlds population with 50% of the
>worlds
>> wealth can sit in his cozy warm house and say how people should be killed. If you want to kill
>> someone why don't you go over there and do it your self?
>>
>>
>
>Would you please point out where I said "people" should be killed? I don't think I stated my view
>of the war situation at all other than my disdain for France's atitude. If it weren't for US
>foreign policy, most of Europe would be speaking German. Like it or not, we are the world's
>policeman. If indeed, any regime is a threat to a free way of life it should be snuffed. Yes, it's
>sad that the rest of the world including the wimpy French government have put us in a position that
>we have to "look like the big bully". It's reality pal, face it. We're the strongest economy and
>military force on the planet and I will guarantee you that if whatever country it is you live in is
>threatened, we'd be the first to be begged to come bail your ass out.
>
>Maybe we should just put a big goddam fence around the US and the rest of you poor bastards can
>bang on rocks to communicate with each other...yes it was us that invented the computer as well.
>
>Danny Callen

Yes you have a good ole American education. Americans are taught in school that almost all of the
worlds inventions were created here or by Americans.

Actually most were invented in other countries.

Airplane, New Zealand.

Sparhawk

 

[Sparhawk]

On 13 Mar 2003 07:49:30 -0800, [email protected] (Max Watt) wrote:

>[email protected] (Donald Munro) wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> Danny Callen wrote:
>> > Maybe we should just put a big goddam fence around the US and the rest of you poor bastards can
>> > bang on rocks to communicate with each other...yes it was us that invented the computer as
>> > well.
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge Alan Turing was British.
>
>It was Boole and Babbage.

Actually:

Soroban is the name of the Japanese abacus, used for 450 years, since its arrival in Japan from
China in the middle of the 16th century, the world's first computer.

Sparhawk

 

[Sparhawk]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:53:17 -0500, "Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> 47% of US citizens are opposed to Bush and the oil administrations illegal war. Most of the rest
>> of the world is also. So why don't just you boycott life.
>>
>>
>> "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > I can't stand to even look at my Carnac Legends anymore, because
>> they're
>> > French. But I'm running into a problem replacing them. I need a shoe
>> with
>> > a wide toebox. Are Sidi megas as wide as the Carnacs? Or is there some other equivelent shoe?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>Why don't ou get off your US invented computer and stay off the US invented Internet and go bang so
>more freakin rocks together.
>
>Danny Callen

Now, now Danny Boy, the Irish were ******'s ally.

Sparhawk

 

[Sparhawk]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:14:50 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > 47% of US citizens are opposed to Bush and the oil administrations illegal war. Most of the
>> > rest of the world is also. So why don't just you boycott life.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> > > I can't stand to even look at my Carnac Legends anymore, because
>> > they're
>> > > French. But I'm running into a problem replacing them. I need a shoe
>> > with
>> > > a wide toebox. Are Sidi megas as wide as the Carnacs? Or is there some other equivelent shoe?
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Why don't ou get off your US invented computer and stay off the US invented Internet and go bang
>> so more freakin rocks together.
>>
>> Danny Callen
>>
>
>
>
>"Difference of opinion leads to enquiry, and enquiry to truth; and that, I am sure, is the ultimate
>and sincere object of us both. We both value too much the freedom of opinion sanctioned by our
>Constitution, not to cherish its exercise even where in opposition to ourselves."
>
>--Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in
the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of
Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will
do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of
this most venerated reformer of human errors.
>
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

 

[Danny Callen]

"Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:53:17 -0500, "Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> 47% of US citizens are opposed to Bush and the oil administrations
illegal
> >> war. Most of the rest of the world is also. So why don't just you boycott life.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > I can't stand to even look at my Carnac Legends anymore, because
> >> they're
> >> > French. But I'm running into a problem replacing them. I need a
shoe
> >> with
> >> > a wide toebox. Are Sidi megas as wide as the Carnacs? Or is there
some
> >> > other equivelent shoe?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Why don't ou get off your US invented computer and stay off the US
invented
> >Internet and go bang so more freakin rocks together.
> >
> >Danny Callen
>
> Now, now Danny Boy, the Irish were ******'s ally.
>
> Sparhawk
>

Does that mean I should have "banned" the Guiness that I drank tonight??

Danny Callen

 

[Donald Munro]

> > Danny Callen wrote:
> > > Maybe we should just put a big goddam fence around the US and the rest of you poor bastards
> > > can bang on rocks to communicate with each other...yes it was us that invented the computer as
> > > well.

Donald Munro wrote
> > To the best of my knowledge Alan Turing was British.

> Max Watt wrote: It was Boole and Babbage.

Both of whom were British (I wonder if Ada was really hot).

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"ANTHONY GOUCH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Germany may have lost in Europe without the invasion of Normandy on D-Day, but they would not have
> fallen without the United State involvement.

Many historians would disagree with you, however it is an unprovable assertion for either side.

 

[Michael Macclan]

In message <[email protected]>, Danny Callen <[email protected]> writes
>If it weren't for US foreign policy, most of Europe would be speaking German.

Much as I appreciate the sacrifices made by the USA in supporting Britain during WW2 and
subsequently and whilst I am generally positive about my country being closely allied to yours I do
feel a necessity to correct the error in the above statement.

Most of the evidence points to the fact that US foreign policy, left to itself, would not have saved
Europe from being overrun by Germany. (I suppose I mean the UK being overrun by Germany because
****** had most of the rest already.) American foreign policy at the time was predominantly
isolationist and it took the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Germany's subsequent declaration of
war on the USA to draw the USA into the war. Furthermore, without wishing to praise Stalin's
totalitarian regime in any way, Russia's human sacrifices considerably outweighed anyone else's.

Now, if you were to say that without US foreign policy, most of Europe would be speaking Russian,
that's a different matter.
--
Michael MacClancy

 

[Jay Tegeder]

Kurgan, you seem to resort to name calling ie, "brainwashed", when your facts don't bear out. I
would say you've been "brainwashed" by the liberal media. Hollywood, newspapers, TV news, college
professors, 50 years of liberal democratic control of Congress have influenced you to the point
where you are no longer a "free thinker". Like I said before, I'm not going to change your opinion.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I would need to arrange an intervention to cure you of your
misguided but well intended opinions. I only resort to name calling when others start it first. So,
please, stop the name calling.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Jay Tegeder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > It wasn't containment that worked against the Soviet Bloc... It was the Pershing II missles that
> > we placed in Western Europe against the wishes of the populations of Western Europe. That move,
> > along with the threat of the Strategic Defense Innitiative (Star Wars, also opposed by the
> > populations of Western Europe and many liberals in the U.S.) pushed the Soviets into a spending
> > war they lost in an effort to match military moves.
>
> That is a huge myth. Soviet defense spending did not rise in the 80's.
>
> > Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders saw their economies collapsing.
>
>
> They did, but it was because Centrally Planned Economies do not work over the long run.
>
>
> >The communist dream (actually, totalitarian dictatorships) was over. Capitalism won.
>
> Yes, free market capitalism has won.
>
> >The people who built those Pershing II missles had jobs,
>
>
> The Pershing missiles have nothing to do with it.
>
> Let me say that you are one of the more brainwashed posters we've had here. You're not dumb, but
> you are brainwashed.

 

[Donald Munro]

> >>Donald Munro wrote: To the best of my knowledge Alan Turing was British.

> > Max Watt wrote: It was Boole and Babbage.

> Sparhawk wrote: Actually:
>
> Soroban is the name of the Japanese abacus, used for 450 years, since its arrival in Japan from
> China in the middle of the 16th century, the world's first computer.

Actually both the abacus and Babbage's difference engine were more closely related to analog
computers as opposed to modern digital computers. Turing's theoretical work on Turing machines
formed the basis for the digital computer, which was later refined by John von Neumann (who was
Hungarian although he did emigrate to the US). See http://www.ams.org/new-in-math/cover/turing.html
and http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/VonNeumann.html.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Jay Tegeder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kurgan, you seem to resort to name calling ie, "brainwashed", when your facts don't bear out. I
> would say you've been "brainwashed" by the liberal media. Hollywood, newspapers, TV news, college
> professors, 50 years of liberal democratic control of Congress have influenced you to the point
> where you are no longer a "free thinker". Like I said before, I'm not going to change your
> opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree. I would need to arrange an intervention to cure you of
> your misguided but well intended opinions. I only resort to name calling when others start it
> first. So, please, stop the name calling.

I am saying you're brainwashed because 2 statements that you've made which specifically and
grotesquelly exhibit that malady. Here is one, crediting the fall of the Iron Curtain to Pershing
missile deployment:

"Jay Tegeder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It wasn't containment that worked against the Soviet Bloc... It was the Pershing II missles that
> we placed in Western Europe

<snip> <end>

Only the "brainwashed", the "ignorant" or the "stupid" would believe that. It doesn't seem as if you
are stupid, perhaps I should have used the adjective "ignorant" instead of "brainwashed".

 

[Sparhawk]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:59:12 -0500, "Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:53:17 -0500, "Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> 47% of US citizens are opposed to Bush and the oil administrations
>illegal
>> >> war. Most of the rest of the world is also. So why don't just you boycott life.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> > I can't stand to even look at my Carnac Legends anymore, because
>> >> they're
>> >> > French. But I'm running into a problem replacing them. I need a
>shoe
>> >> with
>> >> > a wide toebox. Are Sidi megas as wide as the Carnacs? Or is there
>some
>> >> > other equivelent shoe?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >Why don't ou get off your US invented computer and stay off the US
>invented
>> >Internet and go bang so more freakin rocks together.
>> >
>> >Danny Callen
>>
>> Now, now Danny Boy, the Irish were ******'s ally.
>>
>> Sparhawk
>>
>
>Does that mean I should have "banned" the Guiness that I drank tonight??
>
>Danny Callen

No, no, never the Guiness.

Just about casting stones or dispersions as the case may be.

Sparhawk

 

[Sparhawk]

On 14 Mar 2003 07:20:35 -0800, [email protected] (Donald Munro) wrote:

>> >>Donald Munro wrote: To the best of my knowledge Alan Turing was British.
>
>> > Max Watt wrote: It was Boole and Babbage.
>
>> Sparhawk wrote: Actually:
>>
>> Soroban is the name of the Japanese abacus, used for 450 years, since its arrival in Japan from
>> China in the middle of the 16th century, the world's first computer.
>
>Actually both the abacus and Babbage's difference engine were more closely related to analog
>computers as opposed to modern digital computers. Turing's theoretical work on Turing machines
>formed the basis for the digital computer, which was later refined by John von Neumann (who was
>Hungarian although he did emigrate to the US). See http://www.ams.org/new-in-math/cover/turing.html
>and http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/VonNeumann.html.
Yes you are correct of course but it had to start somewhere.

Sparhawk

 

[Jay Tegeder]

Kurgan, I could use your arguments to say that you are ignorant or brainwashed. We'll just have to
agree to disagree. I did enjoy some of your arguments though and will give you credit for being well
read. We just see the facts from a different point of view. There's nothing wrong with that. If
everyone believed the same thing life would be boring...

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Jay Tegeder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Kurgan, you seem to resort to name calling ie, "brainwashed", when your facts don't bear out. I
> > would say you've been "brainwashed" by the liberal media. Hollywood, newspapers, TV news,
> > college professors, 50 years of liberal democratic control of Congress have influenced you to
> > the point where you are no longer a "free thinker". Like I said before, I'm not going to change
> > your opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree. I would need to arrange an intervention to cure
> > you of your misguided but well intended opinions. I only resort to name calling when others
> > start it first. So, please, stop the name calling.
>
>
>
> I am saying you're brainwashed because 2 statements that you've made which specifically and
> grotesquelly exhibit that malady. Here is one, crediting the fall of the Iron Curtain to Pershing
> missile deployment:
>
> "Jay Tegeder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > It wasn't containment that worked against the Soviet Bloc... It was the Pershing II missles that
> > we placed in Western Europe
>
> <snip> <end>
>
>
> Only the "brainwashed", the "ignorant" or the "stupid" would believe that. It doesn't seem as if
> you are stupid, perhaps I should have used the adjective "ignorant" instead of "brainwashed".