Carry freedom y-frame cycle trailer large



G

Günther Schwarz

Guest
any comments on this cycle trailer? I am tempted by the clean and
minimalist design, especially the very small bracket that stays on the
bike. While possibly being more solid, the Weber coupling just looks
horrible IMHO. I'd rather call a taxi cab when shopping for bigger
stuff than having this monster on my bike permanently.
I did already find the article in Velovision on this trailer. But
nothing beats first-hand experience on usenet ;-)
Oh, use will be mainly for shopping and short tours with special needs
for loads. I want the opportunity to carry stuff like larger boards or
beer crates as well as smaller items collected in a box or bag. The
trailer has to collapse to a very small size as my storage space is
very limited due to buying far to many bikes during the last years.
Finally, I am aware indeed that it will be cheaper to take a taxi than
buying a trailer which is not one of the cheapest offers available.
Another possibility will be DIY, but if I want the detachable hubs for
wheel chairs I might well not save too much. Welding is a mysterious
art for me also.

Günther
 
Günther Schwarz wrote:
> any comments on this cycle trailer? I am tempted by the clean and
> minimalist design, especially the very small bracket that stays on the
> bike. While possibly being more solid, the Weber coupling just looks
> horrible IMHO.


I like the weber hitch but am not convinced by the axle fitting. It
should however be possible to manufacture something that will be a
quick-release chainstay adapter for it. I do have a weber hitch on my
trailer.

...d
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz på
[email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:

> Finally, I am aware indeed that it will be cheaper to take a taxi than
> buying a trailer which is not one of the cheapest offers available.



I'm also a first-time trailer buyer. I don't think a trailer is so expensive
in the long run. A Y-frame Large costs 200 pounds, or about 20 taxi rides.

This one might be a little soft for beer crates?
http://radicaldesign.nl/en/products/trailers/cyclone.html

I summarised my trailer search here:
<http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.cycling/browse_thread/thread/471b6f72
2275a916/ee1188bb2b0e14c7?hl=sv#ee1188bb2b0e14c7>

I guess your storage space rules out a Cargo Bike, 8Freight and Long John.

I'm leaning toward the CarryFreedom City because I can take it on public
transport. That means I'm sacrificing the ability to take large objects or a
passenger, but I have measured out that the City will take my boat sails if
I fold them the right way.

Good Luck! Please tell us what you get, and what you think of it :)

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 
David Martin wrote:

> Günther Schwarz wrote:
>> any comments on this cycle trailer? I am tempted by the clean and
>> minimalist design, especially the very small bracket that stays on
>> the bike. While possibly being more solid, the Weber coupling just
>> looks horrible IMHO.

>
> I like the weber hitch but am not convinced by the axle fitting. It
> should however be possible to manufacture something that will be a
> quick-release chainstay adapter for it. I do have a weber hitch on my
> trailer.


I will certainly not question the quality of the Weber product. It
obviously does what it is supposed to do in a reliable way. I just do
not like the looks which do not match with the "less is more"
principle of most parts on my bicycles. Finally I'm just interested in
a cargo trailer and do not plan to transport kids - at least at the
moment, who knows what comes next :)

Günther
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:

> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
> på [email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:
>
>> Finally, I am aware indeed that it will be cheaper to take a taxi
>> than buying a trailer which is not one of the cheapest offers
>> available.

>
>
> I'm also a first-time trailer buyer. I don't think a trailer is so
> expensive in the long run. A Y-frame Large costs 200 pounds, or about
> 20 taxi rides.


I can get it a little cheaper around here, but the number of taxi rides
might be well within this order of magnitude even in my small town.

> This one might be a little soft for beer crates?
> http://radicaldesign.nl/en/products/trailers/cyclone.html


The cyclone cargo will indeed do what I expect from a trailer. It is,
however, even more expensive than the y-frame.

> I summarised my trailer search here:
>

<http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.cycling/browse_thread/thread/471b6f72
> 2275a916/ee1188bb2b0e14c7?hl=sv#ee1188bb2b0e14c7>
>
> I guess your storage space rules out a Cargo Bike, 8Freight and Long
> John.


Yes, indeed. I do have a german Mail Service bike, but the bastards form
"Deutsche Post" sold it without the carriers. With a large and
traditional chinese carrier (will be made like the chinese bikes after
an ancient British design) it serves me well for small shopping and my
short commute to work. But despite admiring the nice cargo bikes of
ancient and current production they are simply too large for my shed.

> I'm leaning toward the CarryFreedom City because I can take it on
> public transport.


That should be a non-issue around here. If wrapped up in whatever bag
the trailer will be OK for public transport. The towing bicycle which
will be in the sake of stability and easy parking most likely my ICE Q
will be harder to put on trains - at least the fast ones (I'm still
thinking about a bag which will allow me to take the ICE on German ICE
trains).

> That means I'm sacrificing the ability to take large
> objects or a passenger, but I have measured out that the City will
> take my boat sails if I fold them the right way.
>
> Good Luck! Please tell us what you get, and what you think of it :)


I certainly will.
One point I did forget in my original post: will it be possible to drill
a second set of holes on the y-frame in order to fit the towing bar
rotated by 90°? This would allow to carry the trailer by hand at least
for short distances without tilting the load bed to much or bending
down myself almost to the ground. I'm not in my twenties anymore ;-)

Günther
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz på
[email protected] den 06-05-01 00.25:

> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>
>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
>> på [email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:
>>
>> I'm leaning toward the CarryFreedom City because I can take it on
>> public transport.

>
> That should be a non-issue around here. If wrapped up in whatever bag
> the trailer will be OK for public transport.



That's a good idea if you can get a big enough bag. The load bed is 50x70cm
and it needs to be thick enough to carry the wheels and arm. That costs
money too, but it might be worth it since the Y can carry more stuff.



>> Good Luck! Please tell us what you get, and what you think of it :)

>
> I certainly will.



Looking forwrd to it :)


> One point I did forget in my original post: will it be possible to drill
> a second set of holes on the y-frame in order to fit the towing bar
> rotated by 90°? This would allow to carry the trailer by hand at least
> for short distances without tilting the load bed to much or bending
> down myself almost to the ground. I'm not in my twenties anymore ;-)



I suggest you email or call CarryFreedom and ask. They could probably make
you a nice fitting, or you could just get some rope or a strap to pull the
trailer with, using the big hole in front.

One dealer wanted to sell me a 13kg trailer, Crescent Mini-Maxi. He says the
extra weight, (13kg compared to 7kg for the Y-Frame large) stops it bouncing
around when unloaded. Even CarryFreedom write about this problem on their
webpage. So I was thinking I could get a foot pump and a plastic tube, and
bolt the tube to the underside of the trailer. With the pump stored in the
tube, I could easily change the tyre pressure as needed. Pumping with a hand
pump is easy to start with, but it's very hard work to get the pressure up
where it needs to be for low rolling resistance.

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:

> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
> på [email protected] den 06-05-01 00.25:
>
>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>
>>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther
>>> Schwarz på [email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:
>>>
>>> I'm leaning toward the CarryFreedom City because I can take it on
>>> public transport.

>>
>> That should be a non-issue around here. If wrapped up in whatever bag
>> the trailer will be OK for public transport.

>
>
> That's a good idea if you can get a big enough bag. The load bed is
> 50x70cm and it needs to be thick enough to carry the wheels and arm.


The largest of the Ortlieb bags should be able to take the trailer plus
the load and a second bag for the bike, too. But this is not high on my
list as I see the trailer used locally mostly. I very rarely carry a
tent and such things as I normally prefer to have a bed for the night
when travelling.

>> One point I did forget in my original post: will it be possible to
>> drill a second set of holes on the y-frame in order to fit the towing
>> bar rotated by 90°? This would allow to carry the trailer by hand at
>> least for short distances without tilting the load bed to much or
>> bending down myself almost to the ground. I'm not in my twenties
>> anymore ;-)

>
>
> I suggest you email or call CarryFreedom and ask. They could probably
> make you a nice fitting, or you could just get some rope or a strap to
> pull the trailer with, using the big hole in front.


I asked the folks at the booth of used, the german importer, at the
Spezi exhibition. They were surprised not to find a second hole for
this purpose. It will be very easy to drill it.

> One dealer wanted to sell me a 13kg trailer, Crescent Mini-Maxi. He
> says the extra weight, (13kg compared to 7kg for the Y-Frame large)
> stops it bouncing around when unloaded. Even CarryFreedom write about
> this problem on their webpage.


I do not see much need to carry the empty trailer for long distances.
You might, however, add a ballast tank which will be better than having
to tow a trailer almost the double weight :)

> So I was thinking I could get a foot
> pump and a plastic tube, and bolt the tube to the underside of the
> trailer. With the pump stored in the tube, I could easily change the
> tyre pressure as needed.


Too complicated IMHO. A simple frame pump will work nicely and can be
secured to the bike or trailer with some straps. The pump in the tube
will rattle.

> Pumping with a hand pump is easy to start
> with, but it's very hard work to get the pressure up where it needs to
> be for low rolling resistance.


How hard do you want to pump up these small tyres?

Günther
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz på
[email protected] den 06-05-01 21.12:

> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>
>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
>> på [email protected] den 06-05-01 00.25:
>>
>>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>>
>>>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther
>>>> Schwarz på [email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:
>>>
>>> One point I did forget in my original post: will it be possible to
>>> drill a second set of holes on the y-frame in order to fit the towing
>>> bar rotated by 90°? This would allow to carry the trailer by hand at
>>> least for short distances without tilting the load bed to much or
>>> bending down myself almost to the ground. I'm not in my twenties
>>> anymore ;-)

>>
>> I suggest you email or call CarryFreedom and ask. They could probably
>> make you a nice fitting, or you could just get some rope or a strap to
>> pull the trailer with, using the big hole in front.

>
> I asked the folks at the booth of used, the german importer, at the
> Spezi exhibition. They were surprised not to find a second hole for
> this purpose. It will be very easy to drill it.



Ok. Not sure how you mean, but I guess you have to see it in real life.
Seems clever to just drill a hole.


>> One dealer wanted to sell me a 13kg trailer, Crescent Mini-Maxi. He
>> says the extra weight, (13kg compared to 7kg for the Y-Frame large)
>> stops it bouncing around when unloaded. Even CarryFreedom write about
>> this problem on their webpage.

>
> I do not see much need to carry the empty trailer for long distances.
> You might, however, add a ballast tank which will be better than having
> to tow a trailer almost the double weight :)



Yes I was thinking I could get a portable folding sandbag :cool:

The weight saving would be most relevant to hills. I imagine if you are
pulling 40kg of cargo up a hill, you start to appreciate every weight saving
you can get.


>> So I was thinking I could get a foot
>> pump and a plastic tube, and bolt the tube to the underside of the
>> trailer. With the pump stored in the tube, I could easily change the
>> tyre pressure as needed.

>
> Too complicated IMHO. A simple frame pump will work nicely and can be
> secured to the bike or trailer with some straps. The pump in the tube
> will rattle.



Hmm, maybe stuffing it in an oversize plastic bag will stop the rattle?


>> Pumping with a hand pump is easy to start
>> with, but it's very hard work to get the pressure up where it needs to
>> be for low rolling resistance.

>
> How hard do you want to pump up these small tyres?



Not sure exactly, but I usually just hand pump my bicycle tyre to half
pressure manually. Then I go to a gas station and pump it to 5,5 bar, or
80psi. Maybe the trailer wheels only need to be 2 bar since the trailer
seldom will carry more than 20-30kg, or half the weight on my bike tyres. So
I guess you're right, who needs a foot pump? :)

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:

> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
> på [email protected] den 06-05-01 21.12:
>
>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>
>>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther
>>> Schwarz på [email protected] den 06-05-01 00.25:
>>>
>>>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther
>>>>> Schwarz på [email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:
>>>>
>>>> One point I did forget in my original post: will it be possible to
>>>> drill a second set of holes on the y-frame in order to fit the
>>>> towing bar rotated by 90°? This would allow to carry the trailer by
>>>> hand at least for short distances without tilting the load bed to
>>>> much or bending down myself almost to the ground. I'm not in my
>>>> twenties anymore ;-)
>>>
>>> I suggest you email or call CarryFreedom and ask. They could
>>> probably make you a nice fitting, or you could just get some rope or
>>> a strap to pull the trailer with, using the big hole in front.

>>
>> I asked the folks at the booth of used, the german importer, at the
>> Spezi exhibition. They were surprised not to find a second hole for
>> this purpose. It will be very easy to drill it.

>
>
> Ok. Not sure how you mean, but I guess you have to see it in real
> life. Seems clever to just drill a hole.


Not really easy for me to describe. Just look at:
<http://www.carryfreedom.com/studio/Ycolapse.jpg>
Now instead of mounting the bar as in
<http://www.carryfreedom.com/studio/Ybottom&bag.jpg>
just fit it such that the end points upwards. The tubing has a square
cross section which allows for that second position. It won't be ideal
as the bar is next to the trailer instead of directly in front.
Anyway, today I ordered the thing and will therefor have the opportunity
to try that myself in short time.

> The weight saving would be most relevant to hills. I imagine if you
> are pulling 40kg of cargo up a hill, you start to appreciate every
> weight saving you can get.


IMO weight saving is much more important than tyre rolling resistance.
The latter does depend to a large extend on the load. Even a loaded
trailer is much lighter than a bike and cyclist.

>>> Pumping with a hand pump is easy to start
>>> with, but it's very hard work to get the pressure up where it needs
>>> to be for low rolling resistance.

>>
>> How hard do you want to pump up these small tyres?

>
>
> Not sure exactly, but I usually just hand pump my bicycle tyre to half
> pressure manually. Then I go to a gas station and pump it to 5,5 bar,
> or 80psi.


I used to do the same before I got a decent floor pump as a christmas
gift. I do not look back.

> Maybe the trailer wheels only need to be 2 bar since the
> trailer seldom will carry more than 20-30kg, or half the weight on my
> bike tyres. So I guess you're right, who needs a foot pump? :)


I actually do. But the Rennkompressor stays at home. Even on the MTB I
rarely change tyre pressure during rides.

Günther
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:

> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
> på [email protected] den 06-05-01 00.25:
>
>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>
>>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther
>>> Schwarz på [email protected] den 06-04-30 21.47:


>>> Good Luck! Please tell us what you get, and what you think of it :)

>>
>> I certainly will.


> Looking forwrd to it :)


Well, based on just a day trip with the trailer I dare to give some
comments.

Assembling and comments on single parts
The y-frame comes in a flat box that reminds me very much of packets
from IKEA. Also the assembly of parts inside the box leads to
associations to Swedish furniture. In addition to the typical Allen key
a 13mm spanner is needed. And in contrast to IKEA the instructions rely
entirely on descriptions instead of pictures. But mounting the board,
wheels and towing bar to the frame was very easy even for someone like
me who is much to lazy to read instructions. The wheels with wheelchair
hubs as well as the hitch are fully assembled.

frame: 1250g [1], alloy tubing with square and round cross sections,
anodized, inserts for wheelchair axles with quick relase.
Looks well made with nice welds.
towing bar: 600g with hitch, alloy tubing with square cross section.
The outer diameter of the bar is slightly smaller than the
inner one of the frame in which it has to inserted. This
is not a perfect fit like a seatpost in a bicycle frame
and results in rattle noise. Either a plastic insert or
choosing a larger tube and machining it to fit could cure
this. But the first possibility would be hard for a small
company as injection molded plastic parts are extremely
expensive in small quantities while the second one would
add labour costs. I will try to silence the thing by
adding tape or pieces of inner tube.
As I already mentioned the bar might be easily modified
in order to mount it such that it points upwards. This
will allow to tow the trailer by hand as a shopping
trolley replacement or such. A small handlebar could also
be added.
wheels: 2x 1200g, wheelchair hubs, single wall alloy rims, stainless
spokes, Kenda Kontact 47-406 tyres. The wheels are well
made and the large tyres allow for some suspension. They
add some weight though. Greenspeed's new Scorcher tyres
might well be the optimal choice for the trailer. Maybe
I will try them when a have a worn pair available.
load bed: 2700g, plywood with anti-slip film. Also seems to be perfectly
up to it's job and the material allows for easy adjustment
by adding holes or bolts for boxes and such. For the
weight conscious this board is obviously the first thing
to replace. Glare comes to mind. But this will be hard
to find if one needs just half a square metre.
hardware: appr. 250g, stainless and magnetic steel. While brackets and
plates are made from stainless steel, the pins and most
nuts and bolts are obviously not. Unless there are
constraints in the construction I would expect at least
the standardised nuts and bolts on quality bicycle
equipment to be non-corroding. It adds only little to the
overall costs and makes costumers happy.


Towing
As I'm not experienced with trailers I do not want to write much more
here than that the thing follows nicely and allows for reasonably tight
turns without the inner wheel taking a short cut in the gutter. I also
have to admit that I only followed the trailer most of the time as my
riding buddies where very keen on playing with it themselves. Without
load the wheels jump when hitting a pothole. But because of the large
track I expect the trailer to be hard to tip over.
The first trip did include a short 70km/h hill on smooth tarmac as well
as a steep and sandy single trail section all with a modest load of
around 10 kg - mostly ice, beer and refreshments :)
At least on flat roads towing someone sitting on the trailer is no
problem at all.

Storing
The wheels come off effortlessly with a push button. They might be
collapsed further by removing the push-trough axles. Even with the
towing bar in place this already gives a very flat assembly when leaning
the trailer to a wall. The big holes in the load bed make it also easy
to hang the trailer on some hook.
I'm still looking for a collapsable plastic box in the maximum format
possible (1/2 Euro skid or 80cm x 60cm). Half this size is very common
and popular for shopping at supermarkets with a car. But the bigger
size seems to be used in industrial environments only and I did not
manage yet to locate a retailer where I do not have to buy in
quantities starting from $10^3$.

Hitch
One of the most important reasons for me to chose this trailer was the
mounting system which leaves nothing on the bike but a rather
inconspicuous plate made from 3mm stainless steel. The parts on the
trailer are also made from steel and look solid and well thought of.
Attaching the trailer to the bike means putting a bolt into an U-shaped
part of the bracket. As supplied this bolt was too tight making this
difficult. After loosening the nut a quarter of turn it was easy. The
thing is secured with cotter pin (right word?) which I will try to
replace with a padlock when leaving the trailer and bike outside shops.
This will only be useful if replacing the quick release fastener on the
bike also, of course.
My biggest criticism on the trailer is that this hitch rattles quite a
bit. I was aware of this because the people at Roland did warn me. But
then they wanted to sell their own trailers with the Weber hitch.
Anyway, the only way to cure this might be to open up the plate a bit
and adding a piece of nylon tubing to the bolt. I will write a posting
in case this works.

Security:
The hitch is not secured by a strap like on most trailers for kids. If
needed this might be added easily though. Securing the trailer to the
bike relies on three 6mm bolts. If one of these fails
the trailer will be on it's own. But the system seems to be perfectly
up to it's job and does not contain any plastic or cast alloy parts
which are sometimes hard to estimate for their condition. As on many
bike parts a regular check whether everything is tight is easily done
and good practice.
Also in case the hub axle or quick release on the rear of the bike fails
the trailer might get lost. But in the case of such an event I might
well prefer to leave the trailer behind me and care about myself first
anyway.

Summary:
strengths
Very versatile and solid trailer which should last forever. Folds
quickly and thus takes very little place for storage. Large load
capacity and low weight.

weaknesses:
Annoying rattle from towing bar and hitch. Not cheap, but then who
really wants to compare the latest offers from Lidl and such to a work
of art.

[1] All weights are taken on my very inaccurate kitchen scale and
therfore are only approximate.

X'post u.r.c., d.r.f., r.b.t.
F'up2 u.r.c.

Günther
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz på
[email protected] den 06-05-07 18.33:

> towing bar: 600g with hitch, alloy tubing with square cross section.
> The outer diameter of the bar is slightly smaller than the
> inner one of the frame in which it has to inserted. This
> is not a perfect fit like a seatpost in a bicycle frame
> and results in rattle noise. Either a plastic insert or
> choosing a larger tube and machining it to fit could cure
> this. But the first possibility would be hard for a small
> company as injection molded plastic parts are extremely
> expensive in small quantities while the second one would
> add labour costs. I will try to silence the thing by
> adding tape or pieces of inner tube.



Thanks for your comprehensive review :)

You could also try to silence it with some thick tape. You could wrap as
many layers as necessary. Maybe they decided to make it loose-fitting so
that it would be less sensitive to dirt and so on.

It's interesting that RADTouren did not mention this noise in their review
in 2/2005. Available on the net as PDF
http://www.google.com/search?q=Radtouren+carryfreedom

And here are some more trailers
http://www.roland-werk.de/transporter/

Thanks again for reporting back from your road test.

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 
Erik Sandblom wrote:

> i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz
> på [email protected] den 06-05-07 18.33:


> You could also try to silence it with some thick tape. You could wrap
> as many layers as necessary.


It won't be much. First try will be a piece of inner tube. But I'll
report back on this. I'm surprised not to get more feedback on u.r.c.
It really seems they did not sell many of these trailers so far.

> Maybe they decided to make it
> loose-fitting so that it would be less sensitive to dirt and so on.


Availability of standard sized tubing might be more likely be the reason
here.

> It's interesting that RADTouren did not mention this noise in their
> review in 2/2005. Available on the net as PDF
> http://www.google.com/search?q=Radtouren+carryfreedom


Thank you for the link. They tested the small version of the trailer.
From the pictures it seems that this one comes with an entirely
different hitch which might be more silent.

> And here are some more trailers
> http://www.roland-werk.de/transporter/


Roland ist well known for their solid trailers as well as for their nice
wheelbuilding. But like so often with German engineering they are
overly complicated, at least for my needs. I was looking for something
like a Morgan rather than a Mercedes CLK, kind of.

Günther
 
i artikel [email protected], skrev Günther Schwarz på
[email protected] den 06-05-08 20.01:

> I'm surprised not to get more feedback on u.r.c.
> It really seems they did not sell many of these trailers so far.



Thanks for all the information (snipped).

Here's some more discussion about it:
http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=94465
http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=93522

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
 

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