Cars blocking box junction - any suggestions?

[Sue White]

My ride home includes a cycle lane crossing of a major road junction.
The cyle lane's parallel to a bus lane and a minor road.
The junction's marked with yellow cross-hatching to tell the motons to
stay off it until there's space for them to get off again, but unless I
stay at work until 6:30 or later it's usually blocked by a tinnie thing.
And it's a pain to get round them.
A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.

Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing it
again, but it's unrewarding.

Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
laughing at them.

--
Sue ]

Bicycle helmets are really a bit of a scam.
They make most cyclists slightly less safe but there's money in selling them.

 

[P]

Sue White wrote:
> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think
> I'm laughing at them.

Take a reality check.

You're on a bike which can do, ooh, 20mph in traffic.

They're in a car. Which weighs a ton or so, and can go faster than 20mph.
And you're about to wind them up.

Why not just give them a superior smug grin and carry on. There's enough
road-rage as it is, and the person they knock off a bike might not be you.

Pete

 

[Phil Clarke]

I like Pete's grown up suggestion.

Failing that, an Air Zound is bloody loud & if they cant see who's doing
it they don't expect its coming from a bike ...

 

[Paul Weaver]

Sue White wrote:
> My ride home includes a cycle lane crossing of a major road junction.
> The cyle lane's parallel to a bus lane and a minor road.
> The junction's marked with yellow cross-hatching to tell the motons to
> stay off it until there's space for them to get off again, but unless I
> stay at work until 6:30 or later it's usually blocked by a tinnie thing.

There are some box junctions, in London, A4 East -> Hammersmith for
example, where if you don't illegally enter the box junction you have
major problems moving in the rush hour, due to everyone else blocking
the junction.

To be honest, the number of times a blocked junction inconvienences me
(compared to vanishing cycle lanes, stupid one way systems, and busses)
is few and far between.

> And it's a pain to get round them.

Then you aren't a very good cyclist, it really isn't hard, or are they
literally nose to tail (in which case laugh when one breaks down and
everyone is stuck)

> A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
> mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
> passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.

Doubtful, more likely they don't think, or if they dont block the road
they wont be able to continue their journey as somebody else will block
it.

> Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
> bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing it
> again, but it's unrewarding.

It's also a very bad move, and not productive at all, and of course
will mean another cyclist suffers as thei drivers view of cyclists goes
down. If you want to do something productive, shourt "Are you blind"
next time a bikeist whizzes past you going through a red light.

> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
> laughing at them.

You get too frustrated. Relax, chill. If you want to be frustrated try
driving in rush hour, having to put up with the mistakes of other
drivers, and suicidal "law doesnt apply to me" bikeists.

 

[david lloyd]

"Sue White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
> laughing at them.
>
> --
> Sue ]
>
Saw a tv show once where they lay in wait at a boxed junction for someone to
come along and block it. As soon as this happend, the hit squab jumped out
and riddiculed the driver with a loudhailer and silly costumes.

--
Dave Lloyd
So open minded, my brains dribbled out.

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Sue White wrote:
> My ride home includes a cycle lane crossing of a major road junction.
> The cyle lane's parallel to a bus lane and a minor road.
> The junction's marked with yellow cross-hatching to tell the motons to
> stay off it until there's space for them to get off again, but unless
> I stay at work until 6:30 or later it's usually blocked by a tinnie
> thing. And it's a pain to get round them.
> A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
> mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
> passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.
>
> Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
> bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing
> it again, but it's unrewarding.
>
> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think
> I'm laughing at them.

The bus driver may be able to help discourage them. If they approach slowly
and side on, there's no reason for any metal to get badly bent while the
car's being moved aside.

A

 

[Sue White]

P <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>Sue White wrote:
>> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
>> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think
>> I'm laughing at them.
>
>Take a reality check.
>
>You're on a bike which can do, ooh, 20mph in traffic.
>
>They're in a car. Which weighs a ton or so, and can go faster than 20mph.

Sorry my point wasn't clear - they're in a caaar which can go as fast as
the one in front of them, i.e. zero mph - they're nailed down.

>And you're about to wind them up.

And I'm trying to communicate with them. They hate that. Do they think
the outside world mustn't intrude on their tinnie?
>
>Why not just give them a superior smug grin and carry on. There's enough
>road-rage as it is, and the person they knock off a bike might not be you.
>
Because they're preventing me carrying on.

--
Sue ]

Bicycle helmets are really a bit of a scam.
They make most cyclists slightly less safe but there's money in selling them.

 

[Sue White]

Phil Clarke <[email protected]> whizzed past me
shouting
>I like Pete's grown up suggestion.
>
>Failing that, an Air Zound is bloody loud & if they cant see who's doing
>it they don't expect its coming from a bike ...
>

How would it help though? Once they've driven onto the junction they
can't move until the caaar (yawn) in front of them moves. Hooting at
them is the *only* thing other tinnies can do when blocked by them, so
if it helped there wouldn't be a problem.

--
Sue ]

Bicycle helmets are really a bit of a scam.
They make most cyclists slightly less safe but there's money in selling them.

 

[Tony Raven]

Sue White wrote:
>
> And I'm trying to communicate with them. They hate that. Do they think
> the outside world mustn't intrude on their tinnie?
>

I'd be inclined to have a T-shirt made up with "Think outside the Box,
Get a Bike" on the back with a drawing of the yellow box beneath it.


--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Sue White]

Paul Weaver <[email protected]> sat in his tin box shouting
>Sue White wrote:
>
>There are some box junctions, in London, A4 East -> Hammersmith for
>example, where if you don't illegally enter the box junction you have
>major problems moving in the rush hour, due to everyone else blocking
>the junction.

It's due to you and others like you blocking the junction, isn't it?
>
>To be honest, the number of times a blocked junction inconvienences me
>(compared to vanishing cycle lanes, stupid one way systems, and busses)
>is few and far between.

That's nice for you, but not relevant to my question.
>
>> And it's a pain to get round them.
>
>Then you aren't a very good cyclist, it really isn't hard, or are they
>literally nose to tail (in which case laugh when one breaks down and
>everyone is stuck)

They're too close to the kerb and bollards - I can't get from the cycle
lane to the front or back of your tinnie. There's no need for you to be
that close, the lane's wide enough that I could drive a double-decker
through it.
>
>> A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
>> mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
>> passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.
>
>Doubtful, more likely they don't think, or if they dont block the road
>they wont be able to continue their journey as somebody else will block
>it.

That's just a self-justifying excuse, isn't it? Nobody else is
competing to join the road you're on, the buses follow a fixed route
ACROSS your road, and a bike can fit between the lanes of stationary
tins.
>
>> Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
>> bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing it
>> again, but it's unrewarding.
>
>It's also a very bad move, and not productive at all, and of course
>will mean another cyclist suffers as thei drivers view of cyclists goes
>down. If you want to do something productive, shourt "Are you blind"
>next time a bikeist whizzes past you going through a red light.

How is that productive? Traffic lights exist only to prevent motons
blocking each others path: there aren't yet enough bikes in Reading to
do that.
Whenever a caaaar annoys me, I ride to rule for a bit, standing at
traffic lights until they change so they all have to follow me at 12mph
for the next half-minute.
>
>> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
>> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
>> laughing at them.
>
>You get too frustrated. Relax, chill. If you want to be frustrated try
>driving in rush hour, having to put up with the mistakes of other
>drivers, and suicidal "law doesnt apply to me" bikeists.
>
Speak for yourself sonny - you've just insisted several times that the
law doesn't apply to you, or you'd stay off box junctions.
Why not spend some of that time working out why it'd pay you to help
others move around (as we did on London roads in the seventies when I
learnt to drive there) instead of obstructing them so that the gridlock
will obstruct you?

--
Sue ]

Bicycle helmets are really a bit of a scam.
They make most cyclists slightly less safe but there's money in selling them.

 

[Sue White]

Ambrose Nankivell <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>>
>> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
>> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think
>> I'm laughing at them.
>
>The bus driver may be able to help discourage them. If they approach slowly
>and side on, there's no reason for any metal to get badly bent while the
>car's being moved aside.
>
That might spawn a "Boris the Bus" subversive cartoon, but the reality
is that the front of a bus has lots of plastic trim and other
easliy-damaged bits. Most of ours have just been repainted silly
colours and look very smart at the moment, too.
If there was anything the bus company could do about it, they would,
because the extra 5-6 minutes a trip it takes them to get across that
junction adds to the number of vehicles and drivers they need. So it's
ultimately very expensive.

--
Sue ]

Bicycle helmets are really a bit of a scam.
They make most cyclists slightly less safe but there's money in selling them.

 

[Don Whybrow]

Tony Raven wrote:
>
> I'd be inclined to have a T-shirt made up with "Think outside the Box,
> Get a Bike" on the back with a drawing of the yellow box beneath it.

Now that is a good idea!

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Wit levels low. Attempting to compensate.

 

[Sue White]

Tony Raven <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>Sue White wrote:
>> And I'm trying to communicate with them. They hate that. Do they
>>think the outside world mustn't intrude on their tinnie?
>>
>
>I'd be inclined to have a T-shirt made up with "Think outside the Box,
>Get a Bike" on the back with a drawing of the yellow box beneath it.
>
>
But it's the ones NOT on bikes that need to be outside the box!

--
Sue ];)

Bicycle helmets are really a bit of a scam.
They make most cyclists slightly less safe but there's money in selling them.

 

[Tony Raven]

Sue White wrote:
> Tony Raven <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>> Sue White wrote:
>>> And I'm trying to communicate with them. They hate that. Do they
>>> think the outside world mustn't intrude on their tinnie?
>>>
>>
>> I'd be inclined to have a T-shirt made up with "Think outside the Box,
>> Get a Bike" on the back with a drawing of the yellow box beneath it.
>>
>>
> But it's the ones NOT on bikes that need to be outside the box!
>

I bet you think FCUK is a spelling mistake ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Jim Price]

Sue White wrote:
>
> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
> laughing at them.
>
Start cleaning their windscreen with a squeegee?

--

JimP

" " - John Cage

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Sue White <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> My ride home includes a cycle lane crossing of a major road junction.
> The cyle lane's parallel to a bus lane and a minor road.
> The junction's marked with yellow cross-hatching to tell the motons to
> stay off it until there's space for them to get off again, but unless I
> stay at work until 6:30 or later it's usually blocked by a tinnie thing.
> And it's a pain to get round them.
> A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
> mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
> passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.
>
> Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
> bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing it
> again, but it's unrewarding.
>
> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
> laughing at them.
>
>
How about flyers explaining how box junctions are supposed to work? You
could stick one on the windscreen so the driver had something to read
while he waited to move the next five yards.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Sue White wrote:
> Paul Weaver <[email protected]> sat in his tin box shouting
> >Sue White wrote:
> >
> >There are some box junctions, in London, A4 East -> Hammersmith for
> >example, where if you don't illegally enter the box junction you have
> >major problems moving in the rush hour, due to everyone else blocking
> >the junction.
>
> It's due to you and others like you blocking the junction, isn't it?

No, I don't drive that way, so how could I block the junction?

> >To be honest, the number of times a blocked junction inconvienences me
> >(compared to vanishing cycle lanes, stupid one way systems, and busses)
> >is few and far between.
>
> That's nice for you, but not relevant to my question.

There are more things to get annoyed about

> >> And it's a pain to get round them.
> >
> >Then you aren't a very good cyclist, it really isn't hard, or are they
> >literally nose to tail (in which case laugh when one breaks down and
> >everyone is stuck)
>
> They're too close to the kerb and bollards - I can't get from the cycle
> lane to the front or back of your tinnie. There's no need for you to be
> that close, the lane's wide enough that I could drive a double-decker
> through it.

You don't have to stay in a cycle lane. If the same thing happens time
after time, why not dismount when the lights on red, and walk through
with pedestrians

> >> A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
> >> mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
> >> passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.
> >
> >Doubtful, more likely they don't think, or if they dont block the road
> >they wont be able to continue their journey as somebody else will block
> >it.
>
> That's just a self-justifying excuse, isn't it? Nobody else is
> competing to join the road you're on, the buses follow a fixed route
> ACROSS your road, and a bike can fit between the lanes of stationary
> tins.

Nope, my bike can normally fit between cars, however when busses and
council vehciles are blocking the road its much harder. Busses also
overtake then pull in, causing me to move out to re-overtake them

> >> Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
> >> bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing it
> >> again, but it's unrewarding.
> >
> >It's also a very bad move, and not productive at all, and of course
> >will mean another cyclist suffers as thei drivers view of cyclists goes
> >down. If you want to do something productive, shourt "Are you blind"
> >next time a bikeist whizzes past you going through a red light.
>
> How is that productive? Traffic lights exist only to prevent motons
> blocking each others path: there aren't yet enough bikes in Reading to
> do that.
> Whenever a caaaar annoys me, I ride to rule for a bit, standing at
> traffic lights until they change so they all have to follow me at 12mph
> for the next half-minute.

Not particularly productive, however less likely to cause a death to
another innocent cyclist. Traffic lights exist to control the flow of
traffic. You may be the only bike in, but I assure you when there are
50 bikes going through a junction (half of them ignoring the correct
side to be on, any traffic instructions, and swerving across your
path).

Why are you positing on uk.rec.cycling though? you obviously arent a
cyclist.

> >> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
> >> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think I'm
> >> laughing at them.
> >
> >You get too frustrated. Relax, chill. If you want to be frustrated try
> >driving in rush hour, having to put up with the mistakes of other
> >drivers, and suicidal "law doesnt apply to me" bikeists.
> >
> Speak for yourself sonny - you've just insisted several times that the
> law doesn't apply to you, or you'd stay off box junctions.

When did I say I enter box junctions? There is one I've entered where
I've had to slow on exiting one as another bike has decided to dawdle
the wrong way down the cycle lane and block my path (Shepherds Bush,
near W12 shopping centre)

> Why not spend some of that time working out why it'd pay you to help
> others move around (as we did on London roads in the seventies when I
> learnt to drive there) instead of obstructing them so that the gridlock
> will obstruct you?

I can't think of anywhere I obstruct anyone, aside from some defensive
riding when I'm about to turn right (and have just signaled so)

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Rob Morley
('[email protected]') wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>
> Sue White <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> My ride home includes a cycle lane crossing of a major road junction.
>> The cyle lane's parallel to a bus lane and a minor road.
>> The junction's marked with yellow cross-hatching to tell the motons to
>> stay off it until there's space for them to get off again, but unless
>> I stay at work until 6:30 or later it's usually blocked by a tinnie
>> thing. And it's a pain to get round them.
>> A bus company bloke says they do it on purpose because they're so
>> mean-minded: they're going nowhere so they won't let his bus and its
>> passengers go anywhere. Or me and my bike.
>>
>> Knocking on their tinnies and speaking to them produces a range of
>> bizarre defensive behaviour, and probably does deter them from doing
>> it again, but it's unrewarding.
>>
>> Has anyone any suggestions for getting some fun out them? I want a
>> laugh to make up for my frustration, and I don't mind if they think
>> I'm laughing at them.
>>
> How about flyers explaining how box junctions are supposed to work?
> You could stick one on the windscreen so the driver had something to
> read while he waited to move the next five yards.

Photocopy of the relevant page from the Highway Code?
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#150

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"

 

[Phil Clarke]

Sue White wrote:

>> Failing that, an Air Zound is bloody loud & if they cant see who's doing
>> it they don't expect its coming from a bike ...
>
> How would it help though? Once they've driven onto the junction they
> can't move until the caaar (yawn) in front of them moves. Hooting at
> them is the *only* thing other tinnies can do when blocked by them, so
> if it helped there wouldn't be a problem.

people do antisocial things when the consequences aren't in their face -
e.g. people they cant see quietly seething in other cars. Its less easy
to sell to yourself when there's an embarrasing consequence.

get in the mind of a selfish person in denial[1] who fundamentally wants
a quiet easy life. What would it take to embarrass you more than you'd like?

[1] prefixing a sentence "I'll just ...", the biggest giveaway of
selfishness in denial.

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
>Sue White wrote:
>> The junction's marked with yellow cross-hatching to tell the motons to
>> stay off it until there's space for them to get off again, but unless
>> I stay at work until 6:30 or later it's usually blocked by a tinnie
>> thing. And it's a pain to get round them.
[...]
>
>The bus driver may be able to help discourage them. If they approach slowly
>and side on, there's no reason for any metal to get badly bent while the
>car's being moved aside.

I've seen TV coverage of a fire engine and crew demonstrating why people
shouldn't ignore "No Parking" signs just because there was still room
for a car to squeeze past when they were parked. Lots of metal got very
bent, and then there was room for a fire engine.

Box junctions: I have occasionally wondered how plausible it would be to
print copies of the relevent bit of the highway code onto transparent
material that would cling to a windscreen and be readable from inside
without being dangerously obstructive to vision....