cartridge type BB in an old road frame

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Mark Hickey, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    dan_s <[email protected]> wrote:

    >i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW)
    >which has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB
    >is probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with
    >the sugino type, as in here:
    >http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
    >is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
    >is it worth doing the conversion?


    "Worth it" all depends on your definition.

    Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
    IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so they'll
    wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup and
    cone BB). The good news is that the cartridge BBs are cheap and do
    seem to last a long time (providing you don't do silly things like
    riding through deep water, which can kill 'em very quickly).

    So basically, if your old cup and cone BB is still working well, you
    wouldn't really be "upgrading" your bike by swapping it out for a
    modern cartridge BB.

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $695 ti frame
     
    Tags:


  2. "dan_s" wrote:
    >i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW) which
    >has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB is
    >probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with the
    >sugino type, as in here:
    >http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
    > is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
    > is it worth doing the conversion?


    A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread. I think the
    Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern cartridge BB available in
    French thread.

    Art Harris
     
  3. dan_s

    dan_s Guest

    i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW)
    which has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB
    is probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with
    the sugino type, as in here:
    http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
    is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
    is it worth doing the conversion?

    thanks a bunch
     
  4. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Guest

    dan_s <[email protected]> writes:

    > Arthur Harris wrote:
    >> "dan_s" wrote:
    >>
    >>> i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana,
    >>> FWIW) which has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the
    >>> current BB is probably (not sure about thread type and direction)
    >>> compatible with the sugino type, as in here:
    >>> http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
    >>>is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
    >>>is it worth doing the conversion?

    >> A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread. I
    >> think the Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern cartridge
    >> BB available in French thread.
    >> Art Harris

    > hi Mark, Art
    > i want to replace the BB because it doesn't run smooth, although it
    > has been so for some thousands of Km's. it will probably run with no
    > problem for quite a while but i'd rather have something better
    >
    > the only new cup n cone BB i found is from sugino, which is probably
    > not too bad
    > are there other available?
    > do i need extra harware to fit a cartridge type BB?


    There are a couple of NOS french bottom brackets on ebay today with a
    BIN option.
     
  5. On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 06:32:07 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:

    > Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
    > IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so they'll
    > wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup and
    > cone BB).


    which you have to re-lube, adjust, and re-build regularly. My memories of
    the old cup-and-cone bottom brackets are less pleasant than Mark's.
    For me, the bottom bracket always seemed to require more maintenance
    than anything else. Dirt, water, and crud seems to gravitate towards
    the bottom bracket (quite literally, actually). The new cartridge ones
    are great, IMO. They are cheap and last much longer than the maintenance
    intervals of my old ones.

    Whether the OP can find one to fit his old French bike is another story.
    Check with Sheldon Brown.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front
    _`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of
    (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The
    internet has proven this not to be the case.
     
  6. dan_s

    dan_s Guest

    Arthur Harris wrote:
    > "dan_s" wrote:
    >
    >>i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW) which
    >>has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB is
    >>probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with the
    >>sugino type, as in here:
    >>http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
    >>is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
    >>is it worth doing the conversion?

    >
    >
    > A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread. I think the
    > Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern cartridge BB available in
    > French thread.
    >
    > Art Harris
    >
    >

    hi Mark, Art
    i want to replace the BB because it doesn't run smooth, although it has
    been so for some thousands of Km's. it will probably run with no problem
    for quite a while but i'd rather have something better

    the only new cup n cone BB i found is from sugino, which is probably not
    too bad
    are there other available?
    do i need extra harware to fit a cartridge type BB?
     
  7. "Arthur Harris" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A 70's French bike will very likely have French or Swiss thread.
    > I think the Phil Wood BB (very expensive) is the only modern
    > cartridge BB available in French thread.


    Specialit├ęs TA still make their AXIX bottom brackets in French threading.
    Not a cheap option, and I don't know about US availability.

    http://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/bb/boitiersinfo.htm

    James Thomson
     
  8. David L. Johnson wrote:
    > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 06:32:07 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:
    >
    > > Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
    > > IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so

    they'll
    > > wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup

    and
    > > cone BB).

    >
    > which you have to re-lube, adjust, and re-build regularly. My

    memories of
    > the old cup-and-cone bottom brackets are less pleasant than Mark's.
    > For me, the bottom bracket always seemed to require more maintenance
    > than anything else. Dirt, water, and crud seems to gravitate towards
    > the bottom bracket (quite literally, actually). The new cartridge

    ones
    > are great, IMO. They are cheap and last much longer than the

    maintenance
    > intervals of my old ones.
    >
    > Whether the OP can find one to fit his old French bike is another

    story.
    > Check with Sheldon Brown.
    >


    I'll agree with Mr. Johnson on this one. I replaced the old cup and
    cone Tange bottom bracket in my loaded touring bike with a cheap
    Shimano UN something recently for a couple reasons. 1. I was changing
    frames/fork so I thought it would be nice to have a new bottom bracket.
    2. Most important, I did not like adjusting the bottom bracket with
    the 1 or 3 hooked lockring tool and cup pin tool. 3. On loaded tours
    I will not have to carry the headset and lockring tools since the new
    frame/fork has the cartridge bottom bracket and threadless headset. 4.
    The under $20 cost was minimal.
     
  9. Dave Mayer

    Dave Mayer Guest

    "dan_s" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >i have an old 70's french steel road frame (sifem - luis ocana, FWIW) which
    >has the usual cup and bearing type bottom bracket. the current BB is
    >probably (not sure about thread type and direction) compatible with the
    >sugino type, as in here:
    >http://parts.spicercycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=37&SKU=CR5022
    > is it possible to fit a modern cartridge type BB in this frame?
    > is it worth doing the conversion?
    >
    > thanks a bunch


    Worth doing the conversion? If you old bottom bracket is not worn out, then
    there is no purpose in doing this. Cartridge bottom brackets are heavier,
    have higher drag, and cannot be serviced.

    Besides, your existing BB is probably french-threaded. Cartridge BBs are
    practically unavailable in french threading - I know: I have a 1972 Gitane.
    If there is some wear, then it is likely in the ball bearings, or the
    spindle. Cups rarely wear out.

    I would pull the BB apart anyway. You only need to pull off the adjustable
    (left-side) cup to do this. Replace the bearings regardless. These are
    likely 1/4" standard-issue balls. If the spindle is pitted, then replace
    it. Fortunately, French BB spindles are the same as English, so your
    options are extensive.

    If you do not feel comfortable doing this, off to the bike shop. If they
    demonstrate any hesitation or uncertainty, then immediatly pack everything
    up and off to the next shop. The last thing you want is a wrench that has
    never worked on a French threaded BB and ends up stripping the frame
    threads.

    As always, seek out the mechanic with the grey hair.
     
  10. On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:28:05 +0000, Dave Mayer wrote:

    > Besides, your existing BB is probably french-threaded.


    This is a problem.

    > Cartridge BBs are
    > practically unavailable in french threading - I know: I have a 1972 Gitane.
    > If there is some wear, then it is likely in the ball bearings, or the
    > spindle. Cups rarely wear out.


    But cups do get damaged, by, for example, water getting in and rusting the
    cups. Spindles also get damaged, and if either cup or spindle is damaged,
    they will be nearly impossible to replace as well.

    > Fortunately, French BB spindles are the same as
    > English, so your options are extensive.


    Oh -- that is good. There are still English spindles around.
    >
    > As always, seek out the mechanic with the grey hair.


    And, in this case, a French accent.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
    _`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  11. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 06:32:07 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:
    >
    >> Really the only advantage to a cartridge type BB is availability,
    >> IMHO. They're somewhat heavier, and can't be maintained (so they'll
    >> wear out quicker than the re-lubable, adjustable, rebuildable cup and
    >> cone BB).

    >
    >which you have to re-lube, adjust, and re-build regularly. My memories of
    >the old cup-and-cone bottom brackets are less pleasant than Mark's.
    >For me, the bottom bracket always seemed to require more maintenance
    >than anything else. Dirt, water, and crud seems to gravitate towards
    >the bottom bracket (quite literally, actually). The new cartridge ones
    >are great, IMO. They are cheap and last much longer than the maintenance
    >intervals of my old ones.


    I guess it all depends on the cup-and-cone BB you were using. I rode
    in a lot of wet conditions for many years with my own c-a-c BBs and
    VERY seldom did any service. OTOH, when I initially installed them, I
    positively slathered the insides with grease, which would help
    mitigate the effects of any water or grit that DID get into the BB.

    Bottom line is that all of us should consider ourselves lucky if we
    ride enough to make BB wear an issue! ;-)

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $695 ti frame
     
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