Cassette removal

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Ian B., Apr 3, 2006.

  1. Ian B.

    Ian B. Guest

    Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
    seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
    look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's
    a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far
    out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.

    Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
    missing something?

    Some lovely photos of it here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72057594097997415/

    Thanks for any help,
    Ian
     
    Tags:


  2. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Ian B. wrote:
    > Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
    > seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
    > look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's
    > a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far
    > out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.
    >
    > Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
    > missing something?
    >
    > Some lovely photos of it here:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72057594097997415/


    These are actual pics of your bike, yes?

    > Thanks for any help,


    From the pics you posted, it really looks like a freewheel, not a
    cassette to me. If it were a cassette, you would have something looking
    like (a slightly dirtier version of) this on the outside:
    http://www.gtgtandems.com/parts/pics/FW8288.jpg

    A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting to
    a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is not
    as deep (because it doesn't need to be).

    This is a freewheel tool:
    http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr1.jpg

    This is a cassette tool:
    http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr5.jpg

    HTH

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  3. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Ian B. wrote:
    > Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
    > seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
    > look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's
    > a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far
    > out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.
    >
    > Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
    > missing something?
    >
    > Some lovely photos of it here:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72057594097997415/
    >
    > Thanks for any help,
    > Ian


    Doesn't look like any Shimano cassette I've used, I can't remember what
    freewheels look like, it's been 16 years since I used one !!! Take the
    lockrings off.
     
  4. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Jim Price wrote:

    >
    > A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting to
    > a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is not
    > as deep (because it doesn't need to be).
    >


    My 'cassette' tool was purchased to fit my first Shimano freewheel in
    1990. I was surprised that it fitted my first Shimano HG cassette
    several years later. Not as long I'd agree but spline pattern close
    enough to work if not the same.
     
  5. mb

    mb Guest

    Ian B. wrote:

    > Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but
    > can't seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g.
    > if you you look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif
    > (I know it's a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut
    > sticks too far out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.
    >
    > Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am
    > I missing something?
    >
    > Some lovely photos of it here:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72057594097997415/
    >
    > Thanks for any help,
    > Ian



    Looks like an older Shimano thingy:
    http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=48
    Second photo from bottom.

    You need a Parks tools FR-1, apparently.
    http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=4&item=FR-1

    --
    Mike
     
  6. Ian B.

    Ian B. Guest

    Jim Price wrote:

    > These are actual pics of your bike, yes?


    Yep. I got the tool kit you mentioned in that other thread from
    decathlon, and I was trying to check that the other stuff I was planning
    to get would be compatible...

    > From the pics you posted, it really looks like a freewheel, not a
    > cassette to me. If it were a cassette, you would have something looking
    > like (a slightly dirtier version of) this on the outside:
    > http://www.gtgtandems.com/parts/pics/FW8288.jpg
    >
    > A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting to
    > a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is not
    > as deep (because it doesn't need to be).
    >
    > This is a freewheel tool:
    > http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr1.jpg
    >
    > This is a cassette tool:
    > http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr5.jpg


    Yes, looking at Sheldon's site you're definitely right, it is a
    freewheel and not a cassette. Good job I got the tool kit before I
    ordered anything else!

    If I used a proper freewheel tool would that just fit over the locknuts
    and allow me to take the freewheel off? Most guides on this assume a q/r
    skewer, something I don't have!
     
  7. Ian B.

    Ian B. Guest

    MSeries wrote:
    > Ian B. wrote:
    >
    >> Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but
    >> can't seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if
    >> you you look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I
    >> know it's a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut
    >> sticks too far out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.
    >>
    >> Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am
    >> I missing something?
    >>
    >> Some lovely photos of it here:
    >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72057594097997415/
    >>
    >> Thanks for any help,
    >> Ian

    >
    >
    > Doesn't look like any Shimano cassette I've used, I can't remember what
    > freewheels look like, it's been 16 years since I used one !!! Take the
    > lockrings off.


    I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
    something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.
     
  8. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    MSeries wrote:
    > Jim Price wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting
    >> to a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is
    >> not as deep (because it doesn't need to be).
    >>

    >
    > My 'cassette' tool was purchased to fit my first Shimano freewheel in
    > 1990. I was surprised that it fitted my first Shimano HG cassette
    > several years later. Not as long I'd agree but spline pattern close
    > enough to work if not the same.


    The freewheel tool is the one with the smaller diameter, so you would
    stand a chance of getting it into some lockrings, and the fact that
    lockrings need less force to remove is on your side. They both have the
    same number of splines, but the spline width is different.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  9. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Ian B. wrote:
    > Yes, looking at Sheldon's site you're definitely right, it is a
    > freewheel and not a cassette. Good job I got the tool kit before I
    > ordered anything else!
    >
    > If I used a proper freewheel tool would that just fit over the locknuts
    > and allow me to take the freewheel off?


    Yes, most of them have to be deep enough to reach over the lock nuts.

    > Most guides on this assume a q/r skewer, something I don't have!


    That's not a problem - as long as it has a big enough hole for a
    standard 10mm axle to go through (which is normal). If it says "park
    fr1" on it, it will work.

    Given that its a freewheel, its likely to be on pretty tight, so be
    prepared to us a little penetrating oil and a lot of force.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  10. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Ian B. wrote:
    > I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
    > something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.


    It is clearly a freewheel.
    I have a number of freewheel removers that fit shimano. One is a cheap
    one that will only fit over the axle so locknut and spacers etc have to
    be removed. The other is a more expensive but much better shimano one
    which fits over the lock nuts. It also fits hyperglide and later
    cassette lock rings (again without removing the lock nuts).
    By the look of your photos, removing the lock nut would be a good idea.
    You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
    big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
    behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
    if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
    misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

    Good luck.

    ...d

    [1]Thus spake the voice of experience.
     
  11. Simon D

    Simon D Guest

    After serious thinking Ian B. wrote :
    > MSeries wrote:
    >> Ian B. wrote:
    >>
    >>> Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
    >>> seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
    >>> look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's a
    >>> freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far out
    >>> from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.
    >>>
    >>> Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
    >>> missing something?
    >>>
    >>> Some lovely photos of it here:
    >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72057594097997415/
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for any help,
    >>> Ian

    >>
    >>
    >> Doesn't look like any Shimano cassette I've used, I can't remember what
    >> freewheels look like, it's been 16 years since I used one !!! Take the
    >> lockrings off.

    >
    > I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
    > something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.


    Don't try - it won't help. You have a freewheel.

    --
    Simon
    www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk
     
  12. Bryan

    Bryan New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what it is) free access.

    Bryan
     
  13. Simon D

    Simon D Guest

    Bryan expressed precisely :
    > This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove
    > the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling
    > the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what
    > it is) free access.
    >


    The most important thing is to understand the tool Ian has (which I
    don't think any of us do - photo?).

    If he's using a *cassette* remover, then your advice won't really help;
    Jim's explanation is accurate.

    If he's using a *freewheel* tool (many of which also work on cassettes,
    as Jim correctly points out) then it's presumably not a Park FR-1 or a
    Shimano tool - both of which will fit over the locknuts and spacers. If
    it's Something Else then it should still not be necessary to remove the
    entire axle, just the r/h locknut and spacer(s). Removing the whole lot
    is just making extra work, and possibly inviting more grief for an
    evidently inexperienced mechanic, IMO; if he fails to get the block off
    (wrong tool altogether, e.g.) then he'll find it hard to reassemble his
    hub with the freewheel in situ.

    --
    Simon
    www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk
     
  14. Paul - xxx

    Paul - xxx Guest

    David Martin came up with the following;:
    > Ian B. wrote:
    >> I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
    >> something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

    >
    > It is clearly a freewheel.


    > You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
    > big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
    > behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
    > if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
    > misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]


    I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and use
    the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with little to
    no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in painful ways", and
    therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... ;)

    --
    Paul ...
    (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
     
  15. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Paul - xxx wrote:
    > David Martin came up with the following;:
    > > Ian B. wrote:
    > >> I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
    > >> something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

    > >
    > > It is clearly a freewheel.

    >
    > > You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
    > > big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
    > > behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
    > > if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
    > > misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

    >
    > I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and use
    > the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with little to
    > no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in painful ways", and
    > therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... ;)


    Tis a good plan. The bit about putting the nut on the back is
    particularly applicable to the old Atom freewheels. Otherwise the
    remover just jumps off.

    The vice trick is a good one. It is predicated on access to a vice
    though.

    ...d

    >
    > --
    > Paul ...
    > (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
     
  16. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Paul - xxx wrote:

    > I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and
    > use the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with
    > little to no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in
    > painful ways", and therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... ;)


    I did however managed to ruin a perfectly good (although self-evidently
    not for this task) vice in this manner; the remover bent the jaws apart,
    bending the vice screw and the two parallelising bars in the process. :-(

    I promptly went out and bought a bigger vice.

    R.
     
  17. In article <[email protected]>,
    David Martin ([email protected]) wrote:
    >
    > Paul - xxx wrote:
    > > David Martin came up with the following;:
    > > > Ian B. wrote:
    > > >> I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
    > > >> something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.
    > > >
    > > > It is clearly a freewheel.

    > >
    > > > You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
    > > > big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
    > > > behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
    > > > if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
    > > > misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

    > >
    > > I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and use
    > > the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with little to
    > > no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in painful ways", and
    > > therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... ;)

    >
    > Tis a good plan. The bit about putting the nut on the back is
    > particularly applicable to the old Atom freewheels. Otherwise the
    > remover just jumps off.
    >
    > The vice trick is a good one. It is predicated on access to a vice
    > though.


    And further note that "vice" != Workmate.

    I used to use a large adjustable spanner boosted by a Bickerton seat
    tube...

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    np: "Ghost Of The Yellow Dog", Mick Farren & Jack Lancaster
     
  18. Al C-F

    Al C-F Guest

    Dave Larrington wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > David Martin ([email protected]) wrote:


    >>
    >>Tis a good plan. The bit about putting the nut on the back is
    >>particularly applicable to the old Atom freewheels. Otherwise the
    >>remover just jumps off.
    >>
    >>The vice trick is a good one. It is predicated on access to a vice
    >>though.

    >
    >
    > And further note that "vice" != Workmate.
    >


    I managed using a workmate. I found that the splinned thingy was a
    perfect fit in a spark-plug spanner (socket), and the socket wrench went
    in the workmate.

    Even had somewhere to sit - the opposite end of the workmate from the
    wrench.
     
  19. Ian B.

    Ian B. Guest

    Simon D wrote:
    > Bryan expressed precisely :
    >
    >> This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove
    >> the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling
    >> the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what
    >> it is) free access.
    >>

    >
    > The most important thing is to understand the tool Ian has (which I
    > don't think any of us do - photo?).
    >
    > If he's using a *cassette* remover, then your advice won't really help;
    > Jim's explanation is accurate.
    >
    > If he's using a *freewheel* tool (many of which also work on cassettes,
    > as Jim correctly points out) then it's presumably not a Park FR-1 or a
    > Shimano tool - both of which will fit over the locknuts and spacers. If
    > it's Something Else then it should still not be necessary to remove the
    > entire axle, just the r/h locknut and spacer(s). Removing the whole lot
    > is just making extra work, and possibly inviting more grief for an
    > evidently inexperienced mechanic, IMO; if he fails to get the block off
    > (wrong tool altogether, e.g.) then he'll find it hard to reassemble his
    > hub with the freewheel in situ.


    I do have a cassette remover, pic here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/123145773/in/set-72057594097997415/

    I will get myself a proper freewheel remover, and now I've played around
    with the hub a bit I think I may have more fun whilst I'm at it do a hub
    overhaul, it's really pretty grimy in there.

    Thanks for all the help everyone!
     
  20. Bryan

    Bryan New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0

    That's a cassete reomver! :) My advice to remnove the avel was based on the assumption that you couldn't remove the locknut as the freewheel was in the way.

    Clean the hub up and you'll be amazed at the difference :)

    Bryan
     
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