categories

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Fork, Jun 3, 2003.

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  1. Fork

    Fork Guest

    What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for? Thanks
     
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  2. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    [email protected] (fork) wrote:

    >What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for?

    american crap
     
  3. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

  4. > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
    this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

    --B_3137561689_9870777 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

    On 6/4/03 8:31 AM, in article [email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> [email protected] (fork) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for?
    >>>
    >>> american crap
    >>>
    >> As opposed to what? How's that The US's system different than any other system?
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > In Belgium, for instance, they don't have categories. That's the way it should be, IMO.
    >
    >
    God forbid we should do things the way they do them in Belgium!!

    Luckily the United States does not give a shit what Henry thinks we should do either...

    You should be working in the UN as the ambassador to "Parrotistan"

    Maybe you could get in the rotation to be on the "Fat Masters Security Council"

    --B_3137561689_9870777 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding:
    quoted-printable

    <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: categories</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">On 6/4/03 8:31 AM,
    in article [email protected]=
    s1.news.adelphia.net, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.remove.it.=
    [email protected]> wrote:<BR> <BR> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> <BR> > "Mike
    S." <[email protected]> wrote in message<BR> >
    news:[email protected]...<BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#008000">>> <BR>
    >> "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in = message<BR> >>
    news:[email protected]...<BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>>
    [email protected] (fork) w= rote:<BR> >>> <BR> </FONT><FONT
    COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>> What do the racing categories= (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand
    for?<BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> <BR> >>> american crap<BR>
    >>> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#008000">>> As opposed to what? How's that =
    The US's system different than any other<BR> >> system?<BR> </FONT><FONT
    COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Yes.<BR> > <BR> > In Belgium, for
    instance, they don't have categories. That's the way i= t<BR> > should be, IMO.<BR> > <BR>
    > <BR> </FONT>God forbid we should do things the way they do them in Belgium!!<BR> <BR>
    Luckily the United States does not give a shit what Henry thinks we should = do either...<BR>
    <BR> You should be working in the UN as the ambassador to "Parrotistan&quot= ;<BR> <BR>
    Maybe you could get in the rotation to be on the "Fat Masters Security= Council"</FONT>
    </BODY> </HTML>

    --B_3137561689_9870777--
     
  5. <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB036459.4331A%[email protected]...
    > On 6/4/03 8:31 AM, in article
    [email protected],
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >> "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> news:[email protected]...
    > >>> [email protected] (fork) wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>> What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for?
    > >>>
    > >>> american crap
    > >>>
    > >> As opposed to what? How's that The US's system different than any
    other
    > >> system?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yes.
    > >
    > > In Belgium, for instance, they don't have categories. That's the way it should be, IMO.
    > >
    > >
    > God forbid we should do things the way they do them in Belgium!!

    In cycling, Belgium is no slouch. They produce a lot of quality riders for a nation of 10
    million people.

    Italy does it that way also. They are the #1 cycling nation in the world in terms of UCI points and
    number of Division 1 teams.

    Their system being better is just my opinion as I stated in the post you replied to.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you.
     
  6. Bart

    Bart Guest

    I like it our way too, real racers have the Belgian federation races, the delusionsal ones and those
    'just for occasional fun' can compete in small side-federations with one day licenses etc.
     
  7. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I like it our way too, real racers have the Belgian federation races, the delusionsal ones and
    > those 'just for occasional fun' can compete in small side-federations with one day licenses etc.
    >
    >
    So, basically, you're average putz can go race with the pros? As far as I can see, that's a good
    thing and a bad thing all rolled into one...

    Mike
     
  8. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    Dalla voce di "Mike S." <[email protected]>, eresiarca minore:

    >"Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> I like it our way too, real racers have the Belgian federation races, the delusionsal ones and
    >> those 'just for occasional fun' can compete in small side-federations with one day licenses etc.
    >>
    >>
    >So, basically, you're average putz can go race with the pros?

    Yes, be has to find a pro team hiring him. That's not that simple ...
     
  9. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    Dalla voce di "Mike S." <[email protected]>, eresiarca minore:

    >"Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> I like it our way too, real racers have the Belgian federation races, the delusionsal ones and
    >> those 'just for occasional fun' can compete in small side-federations with one day licenses etc.
    >>
    >>
    >So, basically, you're average putz can go race with the pros?

    By the way, it did happen. Marco Fertonani, a pro climber now racing for Phonak and being nr. 488 of
    the UCI classment, never raced in any competitive category before becoming a pro. He used to take
    part to the "Gran Fondo" races, a sort of not completely competitive races (in the sense that they
    are not sanctioned by any official organization) that are very popular in Europe and that are
    accessibile to anyone. Usually you have a few thousand people taking part in those races. Fertonani
    won 7 of them in a row. A pro team noticed him and hired him. He showed that in fact he was able to
    race in the pro peloton.
     
  10. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    What is the history here? Didn't it start out as a way of identifying national team riders vs. the
    rest? There were only 2 or 3 initially. Having 5 is out of control. When you consider all of the
    problems the promoters have in filling some of the races, I think you are correct. At the very
    least, it should be simplified. I say segregate everyone in to licensed and unlicensed riders. Then
    make a rule that you have to have some number of "training" races before you get to endanger
    everyone else. Guys like Tom K could just race with the public. The "real" racers would get much
    larger fields.

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > [email protected] (fork) wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for?
    > > >
    > > > american crap
    > > >
    > > As opposed to what? How's that The US's system different than any other system?
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > In Belgium, for instance, they don't have categories. That's the way it should be, IMO.
     
  11. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01C32AA9.45177270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Re: categoriesI can't figure out why you always pick fights with him. = What is your motivation? Do
    you think you will "get even" one day? <[email protected]> wrote in message =
    news:BB036459.4331A%[email protected]... On 6/4/03 8:31 AM, in article =
    [email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni" =
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >=20
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>=20
    >> "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> [email protected] (fork) wrote:
    >>>=20
    >>>> What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for?
    >>>=20
    >>> american crap
    >>>=20
    >> As opposed to what? How's that The US's system different than any =
    other
    >> system?
    >=20 20 20
    > Yes.
    >=20
    > In Belgium, for instance, they don't have categories. That's the way =
    it
    > should be, IMO.
    >=20 20
    God forbid we should do things the way they do them in Belgium!!

    Luckily the United States does not give a shit what Henry thinks we = should do either...

    You should be working in the UN as the ambassador to "Parrotistan"

    Maybe you could get in the rotation to be on the "Fat Masters Security = Council"
    ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01C32AA9.45177270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re:
    categories</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1">
    <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY
    bgColor=3D#d8d0c8>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can't figure out why you always pick = fights with=20 him. What
    is your motivation? Do you think you will "get even" one=20 day?</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px
    solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DV><<A = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>> wrote=20 in
    message <A=20
    =
    href=3D"news:BB036459.4331A%[email protected]">news:BB036459.4331A%steve=
    @printemp.net</A>...</DIV><FONT=20 face=3DVerdana>On 6/4/03 8:31 AM, in article=20
    [email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni"=20
    <[email protected]> wrote:<BR><BR><FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff>>
    <BR>> "Mike S." <[email protected]> = wrote in=20 message<BR>> =
    news:[email protected]...<BR></FONT><FONT=20 color=3D#008000>>> <BR>>>
    "Davide Tosi"=20 <[email protected]> wrote in message<BR>>>=20
    news:[email protected]...<BR></FONT><FONT=20 color=3D#ff0000>>>>
    [email protected] (fork)=20 wrote:<BR>>>> <BR></FONT><FONT =
    color=3D#800080>>>>> What do=20 the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand
    for?<BR></FONT><FONT=20 color=3D#ff0000>>>> <BR>>>> american =
    crap<BR>>>>=20 <BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#008000>>> As opposed to what? = How's
    that=20 The US's system different than any other<BR>>> = system?<BR></FONT><FONT=20
    color=3D#0000ff>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Yes.<BR>> <BR>> = In=20 Belgium, for instance,
    they don't have categories. That's the way = it<BR>>=20 should be, IMO.<BR>> <BR>>
    <BR></FONT>God forbid we should do = things the=20 way they do them in Belgium!!<BR><BR>Luckily the
    United States does = not give a=20 shit what Henry thinks we should do either...<BR><BR>You should
    be = working in=20 the UN as the ambassador to "Parrotistan"<BR><BR>Maybe you could get = in the=20
    rotation to be on the "Fat Masters Security Council"</FONT>=20 </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

    ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01C32AA9.45177270--
     
  12. "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > When you consider all of the problems the promoters have in filling some of the races, I think you
    > are correct.

    I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain it?

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  13. Xzzy

    Xzzy Guest

    1. I heard that a long time ago, the categories were A, B, C. Or A=National/World class,
    B=Regional, C=Beginner

    2. Then it changed to numbers. Loosely it is: 1=National/World class, i.e. has good genetics and
    the time to train 2=Regional - i.e. has a good motor 3=Local races, or has a family and lacks
    the time to train 4=Beginner 5=used to be called citizens( not licensed)

    My 2 cents on another post in this thread regarding UCI points and Belgium having the most
    points and T1 teams. This is a self fulfilling prophecy because majority of the UCI points are
    in the European circuit = the so called world ranking points should really be called European
    ranking points.

    John Bickmore www.BicycleCam.com www.Feed-Zone.com

    "fork" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for? Thanks
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, Nick Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

    > When you consider all of the problems the promoters have in filling some of the races, I think you
    > are correct. At the very least, it should be simplified. I say segregate everyone in to licensed
    > and unlicensed riders. Then make a rule that you have to have some number of "training" races
    > before you get to endanger everyone else. Guys like Tom K could just race with the public. The
    > "real" racers would get much larger fields.

    IN Nor Cal the promoters aren't having problems filling the more popular categories. In the mroe
    popular races if you don't pre-Reg you run the risk of not gettign into the race. We have even had
    some Cat 4 women races reach the field limit and either have to turn some riders away or add an
    overflow event. The only thing wrong with som many categories is dawn to dusk race schedules when
    promoters try to include races for everyone. In Nor Cal most races even offer 35+ Cat 4/5 racesin
    addition to a masters 35+ 1/2/3 and a 45/55 race.
     
  15. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    fork wrote:
    > What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for? Thanks

    Since I post my share of stupid questions (no offense meant), I'll break protocol and actually
    answer. Of course, I'm not one to speak authoritatively on the rules... (See "Dumbass rules.")

    Cat 5 is entry level. After 3 races, you automatically become a Cat 4. Cat 4 is entry level with 3
    races under your belt. Cat 3 is a Cat 4 who's won a few Cat 4 races. Etc.

    Despite my disclaimer, I'm 100% confident in the accuracy of the above, and you should be
    too. Really.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  16. Sam

    Sam Guest

    "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > fork wrote:
    > > What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for? Thanks
    >
    > Since I post my share of stupid questions (no offense meant), I'll break protocol and actually
    > answer. Of course, I'm not one to speak authoritatively on the rules... (See "Dumbass rules.")
    >
    > Cat 5 is entry level. After 3 races, you automatically become a Cat 4.
    The USCF rule is 10 mass start races to go from 5 to 4 on the road.

    > Cat 4 is entry level with 3 races under your belt.
    There is a points system for this. You can see the rule book online at www.usacycling.org

    > Cat 3 is a Cat 4 who's won a few Cat 4 races. Etc.
    >
    > Despite my disclaimer, I'm 100% confident in the accuracy of the above, and you should be
    > too. Really.
    >
    > --
    > --
    > Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    > could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
    > in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  17. In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:

    > fork wrote:
    > > What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for? Thanks
    >
    > Since I post my share of stupid questions (no offense meant), I'll break protocol and actually
    > answer. Of course, I'm not one to speak authoritatively on the rules... (See "Dumbass rules.")
    >
    > Cat 5 is entry level. After 3 races, you automatically become a Cat 4.

    As posted in another thread for USCF the requirement for the road is 10 mass start races worth of
    experience and the upgrade isn't automatic the rider has to ask to be upgraded

    > Cat 4 is entry level with 3 races under your belt. Cat 3 is a Cat 4 who's won a few Cat 4 races.

    Again for USCF the requirements are earning 20 upgrade points by placng in the top 6 in races with a
    min field of 30 riders. Points go 7, 5,4,3,2,1 for the top 6 places. There is also a Min. race
    length requirement.

    > Etc.
    >
    > Despite my disclaimer, I'm 100% confident in the accuracy of the above, and you should be
    > too. Really.
     
  18. Les Earnest

    Les Earnest Guest

    John Bickmore wrote:
    > 1. I heard that a long time ago, the categories were A, B, C. Or A=National/World class,
    > B=Regional, C=Beginner

    Actually the old A, B, C system was based on rider self-categorization. In other words, each rider
    got to choose which level to enter and could change from week to week if he or she desired. In my
    experience this scheme worked well but for some reason it was effectively superseded by assigned
    numeric categories.

    There is nothing in the current USCF rules that prohibits race organizers from using rider-selected
    race categories. In fact some still do. However, in order for riders to qualify for certain
    championships they must work their way up in numerically categorized races.

    John continues:
    > 2. Then it changed to numbers. Loosely it is: 1=National/World class, i.e. has good genetics and
    > the time to train 2=Regional - i.e. has a good motor 3=Local races, or has a family and lacks
    > the time to train 4=Beginner 5=used to be called citizens( not licensed)

    Actually category 5 was never called "citizens." The official designation of the first four
    categories (in old USCF Bylaw J) was: 1 - national or international capability 2 - regional or
    sectional capability 3 - state or district capability 4 - local or novice capability

    The fifth category was introduced for men in 1994 along with an ill-considered change from numbers
    to names. According to the 1994 rulebook, the five men's categories were Elite, Expert, Sport,
    Novice and Beginner. However, by popular demand the numeric categories were promptly restored,
    replacing these names.

    Earlier, in 1989, the so-called "citizens races" for unlicensed riders had been renamed as "public
    races" on the grounds that they were open to non-citizens, but some die-hard race organizers
    continued to use the old name. This class was eliminated in 1997 when one-day licenses were
    introduced.

    -Les Earnest
     
  19. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    That is what I remember although it wasn't all THAT long ago, was it? It was changed in the
    80s...(I think?)

    "xzzy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > 1. I heard that a long time ago, the categories were A, B, C. Or A=National/World class,
    > B=Regional, C=Beginner
    >
    > 2. Then it changed to numbers. Loosely it is: 1=National/World class, i.e. has good genetics and
    > the time to train 2=Regional - i.e. has a good motor 3=Local races, or has a family and lacks
    > the time to train 4=Beginner 5=used to be called citizens( not licensed)
    >
    >
    > My 2 cents on another post in this thread regarding UCI points and Belgium having the most points
    > and T1 teams. This is a self fulfilling prophecy because majority of the UCI points
    are
    > in the European circuit = the so called world ranking points should really be called European
    > ranking points.
    >
    > John Bickmore www.BicycleCam.com www.Feed-Zone.com
    >
    > "fork" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > What do the racing categories (Cat 1, Cat 3...) stand for? Thanks
     
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