CBT and cyclling safely

[DDEckerslyke]

Who knows why I'm posting this...?

I bought a motorbike a few years ago and had to do the Compulsory Basic
Training CBT. The guy who ran the course had a well practised joke about
observations: 'When I go to the toilet for a dump I do an observation.'
But, you know, in a funny kind of a way, he was right. What the CBT taught
me more than anything was observation. For instance most cyclists I see, and
I know, change lanes with a vague apologetic raising of the arm and without
looking at all - trusting to the good will of the average car user. I'd
respectfully suggest that this is not the optimal strategy.

The motorbike's are long since gone. I ride to work every day, and every day
that guy's voice runs through my mind a bit like Obi wan Kenobi
nagging/inspiring Luke Skywalker. Observation, observation, observation.

It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you cold do
worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
because of it.

My 2 pennorth.

cheers

dd

 

[Josey]

"DDEckerslyke" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you cold
> do
> worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
> because of it.

Or read cyclecraft about £14.

Jc.

 

[Dan Gregory]

Josey wrote:
> "DDEckerslyke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you cold
>> do
>> worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
>> because of it.
>
> Or read cyclecraft about £14.
>
> Jc.
>
> http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/S...t=cyclecraft&sortby=3&sourceid=mozilla-search
A quick look here showed them for less too
)

 

[Dan Gregory]

Dan Gregory wrote:
> Josey wrote:
>> "DDEckerslyke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>> It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you
>>> cold do
>>> worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
>>> because of it.
>>
>> Or read cyclecraft about £14.
>>
>> Jc.
>> http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/S...t=cyclecraft&sortby=3&sourceid=mozilla-search
>>
> A quick look here showed them for less too
> )
Although there is one for £458 !!!!

 

[Nick Kew]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:41:03 -0000
"DDEckerslyke" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Who knows why I'm posting this...?
>
> I bought a motorbike a few years ago and had to do the Compulsory
> Basic Training CBT.

Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?

/me did Star Rider silver onna motorbike, but there was no
question of it being compulsory.

--
Nick Kew

Application Development with Apache - the Apache Modules Book
http://www.apachetutor.org/

 

[Mike Causer]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:00:06 +0000, Nick Kew wrote:

> Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?

At least 10 years ago, probably more like 15.

I did my motorbike test in the days when 4 times round the block with the
examiner standing at the kerbside was the standard. Emergency braking:
the fat examiner leaps out from his hiding place behind a lamp-post and
surprises you. Or not, as the case may be....



Mike

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 18/11/2006 20:00, Nick Kew said,

> Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?

I was looking at doing the bike test what must be 15 years ago, and it
was compulsory then, I'm pretty sure.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[GeoffC]

Mike Causer <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:00:06 +0000, Nick Kew wrote:
>
>> Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?
>
> At least 10 years ago, probably more like 15.
>
> I did my motorbike test in the days when 4 times round the block with
> the examiner standing at the kerbside was the standard. Emergency
> braking: the fat examiner leaps out from his hiding place behind a
> lamp-post and surprises you. Or not, as the case may be....
>
>

Keeping his fingers crossed that he has picked the right bike

--

Geoff

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Nick Kew <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:41:03 -0000
> "DDEckerslyke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Who knows why I'm posting this...?
> >
> > I bought a motorbike a few years ago and had to do the Compulsory
> > Basic Training CBT.
>
> Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?
>
In 1990 CBT took the place of part one of the two-part motorcycle test
(which had been introduced in 1982).

 

[Peter Fox]

Following on from DDEckerslyke's message. . .

>It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you cold do
>worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
>because of it.

STOP STOP STOP! [Is there an echo in here?]

Just about the only thing bicycles and motorbikes have in common is the
number of wheels.

This boils down to : Motorbikes are rarely overtaken
(Also they don't ride in the gutter and 'keep out of the way' of 'proper
traffic'.)

The relationship between a cycle and other traffic is entirely different
to that of a motorbike and requires a completely different approach.
Just to give one simple example: At a road narrowing a cyclist will
often want to move into the centre of the lane in good time to stop some
twerp behind trying to squeeze through at the same time. This isn't an
issue for motorbikes.

Motorbikers often mean well when they give advice to cyclists, but in my
experience every time this has been flawed - sometimes seriously.


--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email protected]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

 

[[email protected]]

Mike Causer wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:00:06 +0000, Nick Kew wrote:
>
> > Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?
>
> At least 10 years ago, probably more like 15.
>
> I did my motorbike test in the days when 4 times round the block with the
> examiner standing at the kerbside was the standard. Emergency braking:
> the fat examiner leaps out from his hiding place behind a lamp-post and
> surprises you. Or not, as the case may be....

Don't forget him walking alongside at walking pace. Not easy with a
sticking throttle cable. Still passed though.

--
Simon Mason

 

[Stevie D]

Peter Fox wrote:

> This boils down to : Motorbikes are rarely overtaken
> (Also they don't ride in the gutter and 'keep out of the way' of 'proper
> traffic'.)

Nor should cyclists.

And mopeds, which do need CBT for anyone without a car driving licence
dated prior to 2001, are in a similar position to cyclists on NSL main
roads.

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

 

[Sandy Morton]

In article <[email protected]>, Rob
Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I bought a motorbike a few years ago and had to do the
> > > Compulsory Basic Training CBT.
> >
> > Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?
> >
> In 1990 CBT took the place of part one of the two-part motorcycle
> test (which had been introduced in 1982).

Not strictly true. If you purchase a motorcycle for use on Cumbrae
you don't have to take the CBT.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

 

[Nick Kew]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:36:56 +0000
Peter Fox <[email protected]> wrote:

> Just to give one simple example: At a road narrowing a
> cyclist will often want to move into the centre of the lane in good
> time to stop some twerp behind trying to squeeze through at the same
> time. This isn't an issue for motorbikes.

Not true. It can happen to motorbikes, too.

Example: there was a time when I used to travel into Bristol
along the A4 by motorbike. The road had a 30mph speed limit,
but if I did anything less than about 45 on the motorbike,
the cars would squeeze past. And that was far more scary on
the motorbike than on the bike.

The North Circular road in London was another example that I
found OK by bike but scary on the motorbike.

> Motorbikers often mean well when they give advice to cyclists, but in
> my experience every time this has been flawed - sometimes seriously.

--
Nick Kew

Application Development with Apache - the Apache Modules Book
http://www.apachetutor.org/

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Peter Fox <[email protected]> wrote:
> Following on from DDEckerslyke's message. . .
>
> >It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you cold do
> >worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
> >because of it.
>
> STOP STOP STOP! [Is there an echo in here?]
>
> Just about the only thing bicycles and motorbikes have in common is the
> number of wheels.
>
> This boils down to : Motorbikes are rarely overtaken
> (Also they don't ride in the gutter and 'keep out of the way' of 'proper
> traffic'.)

Nor does a good cyclist.

> The relationship between a cycle and other traffic is entirely different
> to that of a motorbike and requires a completely different approach.

The motorcycle way of road position and observation works well for
pedal-cyclists /when properly applied/, it's just that a cyclist will be
in "slower vehicle allowing traffic to overtake" mode more often than a
motorcyclist.

> Just to give one simple example: At a road narrowing a cyclist will
> often want to move into the centre of the lane in good time to stop some
> twerp behind trying to squeeze through at the same time. This isn't an
> issue for motorbikes.
>
> Motorbikers often mean well when they give advice to cyclists, but in my
> experience every time this has been flawed - sometimes seriously.
>

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Sandy Morton <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Rob
> Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > I bought a motorbike a few years ago and had to do the
> > > > Compulsory Basic Training CBT.
> > >
> > > Wossat? Compulsory training? Since when?
> > >
> > In 1990 CBT took the place of part one of the two-part motorcycle
> > test (which had been introduced in 1982).
>
> Not strictly true. If you purchase a motorcycle for use on Cumbrae
> you don't have to take the CBT.
>
>
True. I guess the exempted islands don't have training facilities, and
the traffic is seen as lower risk.
"CBT must be completed before riding on the road by all learners who are
resident on mainland Great Britain, on islands that are connected to the
mainland by a road, and on the following islands: Wight, North Uist,
Lewis, South Uist, Harris, Benbecula, mainland Orkney and mainland
Shetland. Residents of all other islands are exempt from the need to
take CBT, but only if riding on roads which are on an exempted island."

 

[PDannyD]

On Sunday 19 November 2006 09:36, Peter Fox
[[email protected]] wrote in message
<[email protected]>

> Following on from DDEckerslyke's message. . .
>
>>It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you cold
>>do worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on the road
>>because of it.
>
> STOP STOP STOP! [Is there an echo in here?]

Shouldn't that be LOOK LOOK LOOK!

> The relationship between a cycle and other traffic is entirely different
> to that of a motorbike and requires a completely different approach.
> Just to give one simple example: At a road narrowing a cyclist will
> often want to move into the centre of the lane in good time to stop some
> twerp behind trying to squeeze through at the same time. This isn't an
> issue for motorbikes.
>
> Motorbikers often mean well when they give advice to cyclists, but in my
> experience every time this has been flawed - sometimes seriously.

That's not the point the OP was making though you are correct in that what
is good for a motorcyclist is not always good for a cyclist. It was more
that the cross-over of skills learnt in a CBT may be of life-saving
usefulness to a cyclist.

Mind you, how many pedestrians walk out into a road without looking? I don't
see many regular cyclists[1] not using proper observation but I do see a
frightening number of pedestrians wandering around almost blindfold.
Perhaps they should take a CBT too.

[1] This doesn't include the summer nutters riding BSOs, often along a
pavement or the wrong way up a one way street.

 

[al77]

How about compulsory CBT (as in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) for
aggressive motorists instead?

 

[David Nutter]

On 2006-11-19, al77 <[email protected]> wrote:
> How about compulsory CBT (as in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) for
> aggressive motorists instead?

I think ECT would be more entertaining...

Regards,

-david

 

[Mike the Unimaginative]

"DDEckerslyke" <[email protected]> writed in
news:[email protected]:

> The motorbike's are long since gone. I ride to work every day, and
> every day that guy's voice runs through my mind a bit like Obi wan
> Kenobi nagging/inspiring Luke Skywalker. Observation, observation,
> observation.
>
> It's a ridiculous suggestion but if you've got 120 quid to spare you
> cold do worse than a good CBT course. Touch wood I feel a lot safer on
> the road because of it.

With reservations, I'd tend to agree.
I also passed my motorbike test a very long time ago, but did an
'advanced' training course with a local group, when I lived in
Cambridgeshire.
The main elements of observation of driver behaviour, visibility, and its
relationship to road positioning, are pertinent to both cycling and
motorcycling.
Taking this course made me a better motorcyclist, cyclist and car driver.

(The most dangerous thing I ever rode on the highway was a 50cc moped
limited to 30mph - everyone, and everything, 'had' to overtake the thing
in every possible circumstance)