J
Jasper Janssen
Guest
In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
balls. WTF? Why on earth?
Jasper
balls. WTF? Why on earth?
Jasper
D
P
Paul Hobson
Guest
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
> Jasper
they might be lighter. that said, I still wouldn't want them
\\paul
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
> Jasper
they might be lighter. that said, I still wouldn't want them
\\paul
J
Joshua Putnam
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
Harder, lighter, more precise, and ridiculously expensive overkill
for cycling applications.
--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
[email protected] says...
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
Harder, lighter, more precise, and ridiculously expensive overkill
for cycling applications.
--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
E
E Willson
Guest
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
> Jasper
More money than brains
EJ in NJ
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
> Jasper
More money than brains
EJ in NJ
U
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:10:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
>balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
>Jasper
The word of the day at the FSA booth was ceramic. FSA has been working
closely with the Danish firm, CeramicSpeed, to offer ceramic bearing
upgrades on a number of drivetrain components.
The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
friction, dramatically lighter weight, and reportedly, practically
infinite life spans as compared to even the best steel bearings.
Upgrade kits will be available for external bottom brackets (including
non-FSA branded ones), cartridge bearing hubsets, as well as
derailleur pulley wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full
accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
kilometer in a time trial.
Interestingly, the manufacturer is also quite sure that Tyler Hamilton
was the only rider to use ceramic bearings in the Olympic time trial.
How's he so sure? Well, there aren't exactly a bunch of people making
these things, and he still has the copy of the check from Tyler (yes,
he actually paid for these himself, and they're not cheap).
Skeptics of Tyler's innocence cite the whopping 19 second advantage he
held over second place in that race, but if these projected time
savings are accurate.... well, you do the math. I'm not taking sides
here, but it is rather interesting nonetheless, don't you think?
Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
worth to you?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/interbike05/?id=results/interbike0513
wrote:
>In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
>balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
>Jasper
The word of the day at the FSA booth was ceramic. FSA has been working
closely with the Danish firm, CeramicSpeed, to offer ceramic bearing
upgrades on a number of drivetrain components.
The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
friction, dramatically lighter weight, and reportedly, practically
infinite life spans as compared to even the best steel bearings.
Upgrade kits will be available for external bottom brackets (including
non-FSA branded ones), cartridge bearing hubsets, as well as
derailleur pulley wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full
accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
kilometer in a time trial.
Interestingly, the manufacturer is also quite sure that Tyler Hamilton
was the only rider to use ceramic bearings in the Olympic time trial.
How's he so sure? Well, there aren't exactly a bunch of people making
these things, and he still has the copy of the check from Tyler (yes,
he actually paid for these himself, and they're not cheap).
Skeptics of Tyler's innocence cite the whopping 19 second advantage he
held over second place in that race, but if these projected time
savings are accurate.... well, you do the math. I'm not taking sides
here, but it is rather interesting nonetheless, don't you think?
Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
worth to you?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/interbike05/?id=results/interbike0513
F
Francesco Devittori
Guest
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
> Jasper
Zipp makes an uberexpensive version of some of their wheels with ceramic
ball bearings.
You can distinguish them on some pro bikes because they have white
stickers instead of red.
Over the 35k km a pro rides during a year, you can probably save a
couple of Joules
> In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>
> Jasper
Zipp makes an uberexpensive version of some of their wheels with ceramic
ball bearings.
You can distinguish them on some pro bikes because they have white
stickers instead of red.
Over the 35k km a pro rides during a year, you can probably save a
couple of Joules
D
David L. Johnson
Guest
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:31:58 +0000, [email protected] wrote:
> The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
> friction,
But since bearing friction is lost in the noise of overall performance
anyway, this just won't matter.
Half of darn near nothing is still the same.
dramatically lighter weight
I sincerely doubt you'd save more than 50 grams replacing every
bearing on the bike by ceramics.
> wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full accoutrement of ceramic
> bearings can save as much as a full second per kilometer in a time
> trial.
They have to promise something in order to sell these. But you can never
prove/disprove 1 sec/km gain, anyway, so they are probably safe.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |
> The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
> friction,
But since bearing friction is lost in the noise of overall performance
anyway, this just won't matter.
Half of darn near nothing is still the same.
dramatically lighter weight
I sincerely doubt you'd save more than 50 grams replacing every
bearing on the bike by ceramics.
> wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full accoutrement of ceramic
> bearings can save as much as a full second per kilometer in a time
> trial.
They have to promise something in order to sell these. But you can never
prove/disprove 1 sec/km gain, anyway, so they are probably safe.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |
A
Antti Salonen
Guest
David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:31:58 +0000, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full accoutrement of ceramic
> > bearings can save as much as a full second per kilometer in a time
> > trial.
>
> They have to promise something in order to sell these. But you can never
> prove/disprove 1 sec/km gain, anyway, so they are probably safe.
It's easily disproven, really, because it's so far beyond what could
even theoretically be possible. You'd need something like 20 watts of
more power to gain 1 s/km in a typical time trial situation.
The coefficient of friction for a ball bearing is somewhere between
0.001 and 0.002. If you do the math, with a 80 kg load even at high
speeds (40+ km/h) the power loss in the bearings would be less than one
watt.
-as
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:31:58 +0000, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full accoutrement of ceramic
> > bearings can save as much as a full second per kilometer in a time
> > trial.
>
> They have to promise something in order to sell these. But you can never
> prove/disprove 1 sec/km gain, anyway, so they are probably safe.
It's easily disproven, really, because it's so far beyond what could
even theoretically be possible. You'd need something like 20 watts of
more power to gain 1 s/km in a typical time trial situation.
The coefficient of friction for a ball bearing is somewhere between
0.001 and 0.002. If you do the math, with a 80 kg load even at high
speeds (40+ km/h) the power loss in the bearings would be less than one
watt.
-as
E
E Willson
Guest
I would expect the 19 second advantage would be about 1/10 sec due to
the balls, and the balance due to the man.
The friction and weight advantage of these ceramic balls is so close to
zero that it is negligible. IMHO anyone who buys them (believing that he
will seriously improve performance) is being duped by the seller.
EJ in NJ
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:10:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
>>balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>>
>>Jasper
>
>
> The word of the day at the FSA booth was ceramic. FSA has been working
> closely with the Danish firm, CeramicSpeed, to offer ceramic bearing
> upgrades on a number of drivetrain components.
>
> The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
> friction, dramatically lighter weight, and reportedly, practically
> infinite life spans as compared to even the best steel bearings.
> Upgrade kits will be available for external bottom brackets (including
> non-FSA branded ones), cartridge bearing hubsets, as well as
> derailleur pulley wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full
> accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
> kilometer in a time trial.
>
> Interestingly, the manufacturer is also quite sure that Tyler Hamilton
> was the only rider to use ceramic bearings in the Olympic time trial.
> How's he so sure? Well, there aren't exactly a bunch of people making
> these things, and he still has the copy of the check from Tyler (yes,
> he actually paid for these himself, and they're not cheap).
>
> Skeptics of Tyler's innocence cite the whopping 19 second advantage he
> held over second place in that race, but if these projected time
> savings are accurate.... well, you do the math. I'm not taking sides
> here, but it is rather interesting nonetheless, don't you think?
> Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
> hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
> bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
> worth to you?
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/interbike05/?id=results/interbike0513
the balls, and the balance due to the man.
The friction and weight advantage of these ceramic balls is so close to
zero that it is negligible. IMHO anyone who buys them (believing that he
will seriously improve performance) is being duped by the seller.
EJ in NJ
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:10:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
>>balls. WTF? Why on earth?
>>
>>Jasper
>
>
> The word of the day at the FSA booth was ceramic. FSA has been working
> closely with the Danish firm, CeramicSpeed, to offer ceramic bearing
> upgrades on a number of drivetrain components.
>
> The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
> friction, dramatically lighter weight, and reportedly, practically
> infinite life spans as compared to even the best steel bearings.
> Upgrade kits will be available for external bottom brackets (including
> non-FSA branded ones), cartridge bearing hubsets, as well as
> derailleur pulley wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full
> accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
> kilometer in a time trial.
>
> Interestingly, the manufacturer is also quite sure that Tyler Hamilton
> was the only rider to use ceramic bearings in the Olympic time trial.
> How's he so sure? Well, there aren't exactly a bunch of people making
> these things, and he still has the copy of the check from Tyler (yes,
> he actually paid for these himself, and they're not cheap).
>
> Skeptics of Tyler's innocence cite the whopping 19 second advantage he
> held over second place in that race, but if these projected time
> savings are accurate.... well, you do the math. I'm not taking sides
> here, but it is rather interesting nonetheless, don't you think?
> Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
> hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
> bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
> worth to you?
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/interbike05/?id=results/interbike0513
R
Ron Ruff
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> According to the manufacturer, a full
> accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
> kilometer in a time trial.
>
According to my calculations, with a rider producing 400W and traveling
at 30mph, a 15W power savings is needed to drop 1 s/km. This is 3.75%
of the total power.
That is a lot of evergy to be sucked up by bearing friction... let
alone *saved* by using ceramics. I'd say the burden of proof is on
FSA...
But wait! For the same person producing only 10W and traveling at
6.5mph, a mere .065W savings would yield a 1 s/km improvement! Maybe
this is the realm they are thinking of?
> Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
> hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
> bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
> worth to you?
>
Or... How much is marketing hype worth to you? Sure, if I was making a
million dollars a year to go fast on my bike...
> According to the manufacturer, a full
> accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
> kilometer in a time trial.
>
According to my calculations, with a rider producing 400W and traveling
at 30mph, a 15W power savings is needed to drop 1 s/km. This is 3.75%
of the total power.
That is a lot of evergy to be sucked up by bearing friction... let
alone *saved* by using ceramics. I'd say the burden of proof is on
FSA...
But wait! For the same person producing only 10W and traveling at
6.5mph, a mere .065W savings would yield a 1 s/km improvement! Maybe
this is the realm they are thinking of?
> Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
> hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
> bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
> worth to you?
>
Or... How much is marketing hype worth to you? Sure, if I was making a
million dollars a year to go fast on my bike...
Q
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:10:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> >balls. WTF? Why on earth?
> >
> >Jasper
>
> The word of the day at the FSA booth was ceramic. FSA has been working
> closely with the Danish firm, CeramicSpeed, to offer ceramic bearing
> upgrades on a number of drivetrain components.
>
> The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
> friction, dramatically lighter weight, and reportedly, practically
> infinite life spans as compared to even the best steel bearings.
> Upgrade kits will be available for external bottom brackets (including
> non-FSA branded ones), cartridge bearing hubsets, as well as
> derailleur pulley wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full
> accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
> kilometer in a time trial.
Except the cones and cups are the things that wear\, not the ball
bearings. Unless they harder tha cones/cups, ceramic is an expensive
answer to a not asked question. Like a guy at shimano once told me when
I pointed to a shimano 'thing', asking, "what's that for?", "selling'
was his response.
>
> Interestingly, the manufacturer is also quite sure that Tyler Hamilton
> was the only rider to use ceramic bearings in the Olympic time trial.
> How's he so sure? Well, there aren't exactly a bunch of people making
> these things, and he still has the copy of the check from Tyler (yes,
> he actually paid for these himself, and they're not cheap).
>
> Skeptics of Tyler's innocence cite the whopping 19 second advantage he
> held over second place in that race, but if these projected time
> savings are accurate.... well, you do the math. I'm not taking sides
> here, but it is rather interesting nonetheless, don't you think?
> Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
> hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
> bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
> worth to you?
Too bad their bearing seals will still be sluggish, in spite of ceramiv
balls.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/interbike05/?id=results/interbike0513
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:10:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> >balls. WTF? Why on earth?
> >
> >Jasper
>
> The word of the day at the FSA booth was ceramic. FSA has been working
> closely with the Danish firm, CeramicSpeed, to offer ceramic bearing
> upgrades on a number of drivetrain components.
>
> The ceramic bearings, made of silicon nitride, offer hugely reduced
> friction, dramatically lighter weight, and reportedly, practically
> infinite life spans as compared to even the best steel bearings.
> Upgrade kits will be available for external bottom brackets (including
> non-FSA branded ones), cartridge bearing hubsets, as well as
> derailleur pulley wheels. According to the manufacturer, a full
> accoutrement of ceramic bearings can save as much as a full second per
> kilometer in a time trial.
Except the cones and cups are the things that wear\, not the ball
bearings. Unless they harder tha cones/cups, ceramic is an expensive
answer to a not asked question. Like a guy at shimano once told me when
I pointed to a shimano 'thing', asking, "what's that for?", "selling'
was his response.
>
> Interestingly, the manufacturer is also quite sure that Tyler Hamilton
> was the only rider to use ceramic bearings in the Olympic time trial.
> How's he so sure? Well, there aren't exactly a bunch of people making
> these things, and he still has the copy of the check from Tyler (yes,
> he actually paid for these himself, and they're not cheap).
>
> Skeptics of Tyler's innocence cite the whopping 19 second advantage he
> held over second place in that race, but if these projected time
> savings are accurate.... well, you do the math. I'm not taking sides
> here, but it is rather interesting nonetheless, don't you think?
> Complete external bottom brackets will run about $249USD and complete
> hub upgrades will cost consumers about $300-400 for six cartridge
> bearings. Sure, it sounds like a lot, but what's that podium spot
> worth to you?
Too bad their bearing seals will still be sluggish, in spite of ceramiv
balls.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/shows/interbike05/?id=results/interbike0513
J
Jasper Janssen
Guest
On 29 Oct 2005 07:23:23 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Too bad their bearing seals will still be sluggish, in spite of ceramiv
>balls.
Well, sluggish or ineffective. Ineffective can work for some people.
Jasper
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Too bad their bearing seals will still be sluggish, in spite of ceramiv
>balls.
Well, sluggish or ineffective. Ineffective can work for some people.
Jasper
J
john
Guest
Francesco Devittori wrote:
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
> > In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> > balls. WTF? Why on earth?
> >
> > Jasper
>
> Zipp makes an uberexpensive version of some of their wheels with ceramic
> ball bearings.
> You can distinguish them on some pro bikes because they have white
> stickers instead of red.
> Over the 35k km a pro rides during a year, you can probably save a
> couple of Joules
Ouestion #1; A typical Cat 2 rider, say 150 lbs, on a recient $2000
bike, riding at 25 mph alone, what % of his power is used to over come
wind & what % friction?
Just ballpark figures. I seem to remember <10%, maybe even <5%.
Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
wind, why isn't he going backwards?
On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
to the ground.
Just curious, John
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
> > In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> > balls. WTF? Why on earth?
> >
> > Jasper
>
> Zipp makes an uberexpensive version of some of their wheels with ceramic
> ball bearings.
> You can distinguish them on some pro bikes because they have white
> stickers instead of red.
> Over the 35k km a pro rides during a year, you can probably save a
> couple of Joules
Ouestion #1; A typical Cat 2 rider, say 150 lbs, on a recient $2000
bike, riding at 25 mph alone, what % of his power is used to over come
wind & what % friction?
Just ballpark figures. I seem to remember <10%, maybe even <5%.
Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
wind, why isn't he going backwards?
On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
to the ground.
Just curious, John
J
john
Guest
Francesco Devittori wrote:
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
> > In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> > balls. WTF? Why on earth?
> >
> > Jasper
>
> Zipp makes an uberexpensive version of some of their wheels with ceramic
> ball bearings.
> You can distinguish them on some pro bikes because they have white
> stickers instead of red.
> Over the 35k km a pro rides during a year, you can probably save a
> couple of Joules
Ouestion #1; A typical Cat 2 rider, say 150 lbs, on a recient $2000
bike, riding at 25 mph alone, what % of his power is used to over come
wind & what % friction?
Just ballpark figures. I seem to remember <10%, maybe even <5%.
Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
wind, why isn't he going backwards?
On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
to the ground.
Just curious, John
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
> > In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
> > balls. WTF? Why on earth?
> >
> > Jasper
>
> Zipp makes an uberexpensive version of some of their wheels with ceramic
> ball bearings.
> You can distinguish them on some pro bikes because they have white
> stickers instead of red.
> Over the 35k km a pro rides during a year, you can probably save a
> couple of Joules
Ouestion #1; A typical Cat 2 rider, say 150 lbs, on a recient $2000
bike, riding at 25 mph alone, what % of his power is used to over come
wind & what % friction?
Just ballpark figures. I seem to remember <10%, maybe even <5%.
Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
wind, why isn't he going backwards?
On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
to the ground.
Just curious, John
R
Ron Ruff
Guest
john wrote:
>
> Ouestion #1; A typical Cat 2 rider, say 150 lbs, on a recient $2000
> bike, riding at 25 mph alone, what % of his power is used to over come
> wind & what % friction?
On a smooth road and no wind, roughly 10% would be tire rolling
resistance and 90% would be aero resistance. Bearing friction is
generally so small that it isn't even considered.
> Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
> wind, why isn't he going backwards?
> On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
> to the ground.
>
Are you riding in a hurricane? If you actually experienced a 60mph
headwind you'd have a tough time going forward... but at least we have
the ground to push off against... the blimp doesn't.
>
> Ouestion #1; A typical Cat 2 rider, say 150 lbs, on a recient $2000
> bike, riding at 25 mph alone, what % of his power is used to over come
> wind & what % friction?
On a smooth road and no wind, roughly 10% would be tire rolling
resistance and 90% would be aero resistance. Bearing friction is
generally so small that it isn't even considered.
> Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
> wind, why isn't he going backwards?
> On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
> to the ground.
>
Are you riding in a hurricane? If you actually experienced a 60mph
headwind you'd have a tough time going forward... but at least we have
the ground to push off against... the blimp doesn't.
K
Kenneth
Guest
On 29 Oct 2005 18:56:52 -0700, "Ron Ruff"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you actually experienced a 60mph
>headwind you'd have a tough time going forward... but at least we have
>the ground to push off against... the blimp doesn't.
But it soon would...
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you actually experienced a 60mph
>headwind you'd have a tough time going forward... but at least we have
>the ground to push off against... the blimp doesn't.
But it soon would...
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
W
Werehatrack
Guest
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:10:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
>balls. WTF? Why on earth?
Boutique mentality. It's exotic and different, therefore it *must* be
Better. I have largely given up trying to actively discourage such
foolishness; I'll explain the issues as I understand them, and then
encourage the listener to spend *his* money verifying the data if
there's any question in his mind. If nothing else, I view this as an
investment in future entertainment.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
wrote:
>In another bike group someone appears to want to buy ceramic bearing
>balls. WTF? Why on earth?
Boutique mentality. It's exotic and different, therefore it *must* be
Better. I have largely given up trying to actively discourage such
foolishness; I'll explain the issues as I understand them, and then
encourage the listener to spend *his* money verifying the data if
there's any question in his mind. If nothing else, I view this as an
investment in future entertainment.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
W
Werehatrack
Guest
On 29 Oct 2005 15:26:04 -0700, "john" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
>wind, why isn't he going backwards?
In the face of a 60mph headwind, if he's moving at all, he's doing
pretty well. It's not difficult to remain motionless in that
circumstance, but progress upwind would be very tiring and very slow,
involving the use of a very low gear. Bikes interact with the air and
the ground; even when the air is moving fast, the ground isn't. By
choosing a low enough gear ratio, forward progress is still possible.
>On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
>to the ground.
Yes. The blimp's interaction is solely with the air, not the ground.
If the air is moving at a speed greater than the blimp's highest
potential airspeed, then the blimp cannot make ground-relative headway
upwind.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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>Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
>wind, why isn't he going backwards?
In the face of a 60mph headwind, if he's moving at all, he's doing
pretty well. It's not difficult to remain motionless in that
circumstance, but progress upwind would be very tiring and very slow,
involving the use of a very low gear. Bikes interact with the air and
the ground; even when the air is moving fast, the ground isn't. By
choosing a low enough gear ratio, forward progress is still possible.
>On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
>to the ground.
Yes. The blimp's interaction is solely with the air, not the ground.
If the air is moving at a speed greater than the blimp's highest
potential airspeed, then the blimp cannot make ground-relative headway
upwind.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
E
E Willson
Guest
According to Werehatrack "It's not difficult to remain motionless in
that circumstance"
Just to pick a nit here, how would a bike be able to remain motionless?
Isn't forward motion necessary (ie wheels rotating) to raise the
necessary gyroscopic force to hold the bike upright?
EJ in NJ
Werehatrack wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2005 15:26:04 -0700, "john" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
>>wind, why isn't he going backwards?
>
>
> In the face of a 60mph headwind, if he's moving at all, he's doing
> pretty well. It's not difficult to remain motionless in that
> circumstance, but progress upwind would be very tiring and very slow,
> involving the use of a very low gear. Bikes interact with the air and
> the ground; even when the air is moving fast, the ground isn't. By
> choosing a low enough gear ratio, forward progress is still possible.
>
>
>>On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
>>to the ground.
>
>
> Yes. The blimp's interaction is solely with the air, not the ground.
> If the air is moving at a speed greater than the blimp's highest
> potential airspeed, then the blimp cannot make ground-relative headway
> upwind.
that circumstance"
Just to pick a nit here, how would a bike be able to remain motionless?
Isn't forward motion necessary (ie wheels rotating) to raise the
necessary gyroscopic force to hold the bike upright?
EJ in NJ
Werehatrack wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2005 15:26:04 -0700, "john" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Question #2; If a rider at any speed, is riding into a 60 mph head
>>wind, why isn't he going backwards?
>
>
> In the face of a 60mph headwind, if he's moving at all, he's doing
> pretty well. It's not difficult to remain motionless in that
> circumstance, but progress upwind would be very tiring and very slow,
> involving the use of a very low gear. Bikes interact with the air and
> the ground; even when the air is moving fast, the ground isn't. By
> choosing a low enough gear ratio, forward progress is still possible.
>
>
>>On a windy day, I once saw the Goodyear blimp flying backwards relative
>>to the ground.
>
>
> Yes. The blimp's interaction is solely with the air, not the ground.
> If the air is moving at a speed greater than the blimp's highest
> potential airspeed, then the blimp cannot make ground-relative headway
> upwind.
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