Cervelo Soloist Team (2002) Frame - Opinions on condition sought....

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by n707301, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. n707301

    n707301 New Member

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    Hi all,

    I've already posted this question on Cerelo's own forum which I visit frequently, but I though I would try opening this up to a slighly wider audience. I've been reading both forums on and off for months now as I slowly save up for my first road bike! I've cycled a touring bike for years and done tens of thousands of miles on it (commuting, holidays etc), but without a roadbike I was finding cycling in clubs simply a non-starter!

    Now, normally as I am new to a sport, I would not go straight for such a great bike as a Cervelo, but due to the UK governments Cycle2Work scheme offering a 40% discount on a new bike up to £1000, it seems silly to not spend the full amount and go for something really great (yes, I know a Soloist frame, forks and all the bits is way more than £1000, but I am justifying it?!?!)


    Anyway, while waiting, I noticed this frame on Ebay:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190167568205&

    I've already been buying the parts off ebay to kit out a 2008 Soloist Team frame and forks (LBS build price is unexplainably high and they wont assemble for a test ride!), I decided to take a chance on go for this frameset. To a certain extent I felt better about not blowing a huge wad of cash on a brand new frame when I am so new to competitive cycling.


    Anyway, the frame and forks arrived yesterday. They were rattling arround losely in a huge box with only a tiny bit of bubble wrap just placed in with them. The frame was in no way protected.... not wrapped in bubble wrap, neither the forks or the wheel dropsouts protected from impact. Just loose.

    In addition I am not happy with the condition of the bike. I don't think this is as a result of the transportation. The ebay auction described the condition as:

    "Ok...condition: Well pretty good. I have included a photo of the chips out of the name decal but in general the paint work is good but not excellent and not perfect."

    I've taken some pictures and put them up on some webspace:

    http://192.168.1.1/~jamie/cervelo/

    Please take a look and let me know what you think (I'll try and link them in another post).


    The bit I am most concerned about is the rubbing of the rear wheel on the inside of the chain stays (see image 3821). It's taken all the paint off and it feels indented. i.e. I think there is some of the aluminium rubbed off there too. Is this going to weaken the frame? Should I be concerned?

    Or am I just expecting too much and is this frame actually in reasonable condition?

    I'd be interested in all your thoughts.

    Regards,

    Jamie

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  2. n707301

    n707301 New Member

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    From talking to others I think I have narrowed my feelings down to a couple of things (I'm pretty upset about this):

    1) Is the frame safe? The wear on the chainstays (including a loss of some aluminium) concerns me, but I am both new to road bikes and also have never seen *any* bike in such a condition so I dont know if this is really something to worry about

    2) If we can assume the frame is safe, do you think the seller accurately represented the frame in the ebay auction? I personally don't. The only piece of damange he mentioned was the decal chip/scratch which is by far the least concerning. If he had mentioned the damage shown in the photographs I very much doubt I would have bid on the frame, and certainly not up to £250. Is this unfair of me? I'd be interested in peoples thoughts on this.

    Sorry for the long post, tonnes of images, etc.

    Thanks for reading (and hopefully replying!)

    Jamie
     
  3. strader

    strader New Member

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    Did he include the plugs for the internal cable routing? (4th pic) If not I would definetly bring that up, he should reimburse you for buying new ones through Cervelo.
    I would also be worried about the wear on the chainstays you pointed out. I can't imagine what would cause that kind of wear. There is a big difference between wear on paint as the seller claimed, and wear through the frame.
     
  4. buckybux

    buckybux New Member

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    I would ask for my money back based on mis-representation. Be sure to give the evaluation on ebay stating the problems and issues you are having so anyone else knows about the problems with the seller. I get things on ebay, but I only buy things that are new or almost new. Always verify the photo in ebay is the actual item (as many times they use a stock photo). Good Luck!
     
  5. 531Aussie

    531Aussie Well-Known Member

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    yeah, the wear ont he chain-stays looks worrying. It is deep, or just the paint?
     
  6. melslur

    melslur New Member

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    The chewed-up aluminium near the dropout and the wearing of metal in the stays is not typical and certainly should have been disclosed in the ebay posting.

    Let us know what happens.
     
  7. Lama

    Lama New Member

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    Id be pretty pi*&ed off if i were sent a frame in that condition after seeing that description.

    i'd be chasing a refund/return & leaving suitable (but not roasting if refunded) feedback.

    the point is if you were able to take the time to post the pics of that damage here then why didnt he when he placed the ad?? reason being because he's probably shonky!

    as for the damage & safety, i'd be pretty wary! might be fine for a while but as the Alu fatigues over time - the weakest point will always fail first. I still cant understand how (in "normal" use) you could damage a frame that way??

    Good luck
     
  8. John M

    John M New Member

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    That frame is a bit beat, but is probably OK to ride. Only the rubbing in the chainstay is concerning

    I agree that the condition was overstated and probably should be been reported as fair to good with a better indication of the specific damages. If you are unsatisfied, then I would suggest that you offer to send the frame back for a refund. Offer to ship at your expense and be as cordial as possible.

    Such is the risk of eBay. Good luck.
     
  9. chainstay

    chainstay New Member

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    Regarding Ebay feedback, I don't really understand how the feedback system can work, especially for the little guy. For example, I have only bought about seven items on Ebay, and each time I buy something, the seller, who is often someone who has done thousands of transactions, waits until I leave them a positive feedback before they leave me a feedback. So if I had a problem on my next purchase for example, I would have to decide whether it is worth it to leave the seller a bad feedback and then likely get some bs bad feedback in return, which would knock my recommendation rate all the way down to 87% from 100%, or just forget about it and move on. I guess in most cases I would probably prefer to just move on rather than have some crook write some bs feedback back on me in return. I guess that is one of the reasons I don't do much business on Ebay.

    Regarding the frame, the fact it was so poorly packaged also is disturbing. Makes it difficult to want to trust the frame.
     
  10. n707301

    n707301 New Member

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    Hi All,

    Thanks for all the replies. Sorry I did not get back sooner but my wife had our first child this morning (boy, Jack, 8lb9) after a 28hour labour, so I have been a little rushed off my feet!

    No, the plug for the internal cable routing is missing. But I am not that concerned about that... just more fuel for the fire!
    Agreed re described wear and actual wear!

    Yeah, regardless of the outcome, he will get nothing more than neutral (and he will be lucky to get that!). Thanks for the ebay tips.


    It's not deep, but I am fairly sure it is not just the paint. Running my finger over it indicates it is deeper directly in the centre of the exposed aluminium which seems to indicate it is not just paint.

    Thanks. Atleast I know I am not being unreasonable with my complaint.

    Yeah, I am worried that he is "shonky" and a return/refund is going to be difficult. I'm going to email and ask him how the damage happend, but I think ultimately the frame is not going to be ridden by me (regardless of if he takes it back).

    I'd be fine with the condition, even the missing cable plug and the bad dropouts, but the rubbing on the chainstays is really worrying. I'm 14st so I perhaps place a little more weight strain on my frame than a pro-cycler might! Given the damage I'm not sure if I would be prepared to return if at my expense, but if that is what it takes to get my money back, then so be it.

    I'm going to take the frame to my LBS and also the local Cervelo dealer to get some opinions from people who can actually see the damage, run their fingers over it etc.

    I'll keep you all posted!

    Thanks again for all the replies!
     
  11. n707301

    n707301 New Member

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    Well, I went to my local Cervelo dealer today and it was as I suspected. They believe that material has been lost from the chainstays but they have no idea how much material has been lost, nor how thick the actual tubes are. Like me, I think they are just wary of the condition and would prefer not to risk their neck on it.


    They recon it is unsafe, but have said it should really go back to Cervelo for them to access its road worthiness. At worst it might need the chainstays replaced (I did not know this could be done) but this will apparently cost many hundreds of pounds and it might be cheaper to try and get a new bike through some form of crash replacement program (although they were not 100% sure if Cervelo did such a thing).

    The seller has been quite good about it (although a little bad communication on my part - I said "I don't think that the description you gave of the condition of the frame was fair or honest") and we are working slowly towards a resolution (hopefully). He has claimed he has spent the money already, so we will need to see what happens.

    Thanks again and I will keep you posted.
     
  12. John M

    John M New Member

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    this doesn't get him out of a refund.
     
  13. melslur

    melslur New Member

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    Don't fall for the "don't seek recourse through ebay / paypal, I'll have your money in 3 weeks". You could end up outside the time limit for ebay and no money.
     
  14. n707301

    n707301 New Member

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    Very good point.

    I'm contacting Cervelo directly to see if their technical department can give any insight on the safety of the frame, but I am fairly sure they will tell me not to ride it and give a quote on the replacement of the chainstays (whcih in reality will probably equate to a new 2008 Soloist Team).

    Thanks guys for all your help and support.

    Will let you know how it all ends.
     
  15. Packeteer

    Packeteer New Member

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    You might want to start the ebay complaint process now. That way the guy knows you mean business. You can cancel it after it has already started. This way he knows if he does not act he will be in some heat. You dont want to risk pissing him off and having him try to blow you off.

    Did you pay with paypal? If so you might be able to get money back through them. I know they often have access to someone's bank account and can overdraw their account and give you your money back even if they alreayd spent the money.
     
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